New Version - August 23rd (8-23)

[Bromar1]

• Merchant - Caravansary/Burial Tomb now gives Merchant specialists +1 Gold in the city

Pretty insignificant buff imo. I still wouldn't build caravansary in more than one city... If it behaved like a mini factory (+1 prod from merchant ,+1 gold on engineers) I might consider it in the late game. I don't think I've ever built a caravansary during the classical era

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Halving the benefit of mastery sounds really a bit harsh. I cant remember, if or when ive seen AI picking mastery. You could increase the value of this believe to AI civilizations which goes tradition.
.
Else, I would suggest you add some minor advantage, like +10% religious pressure / +2 to food in city / +2 culture in city .... if a specialist is working in the city. Or something more exclusive like, +2 food in capital for every city with a specialist working.

 

[Magean]

I had no time to play today, ran an observer game while I was away instead. Looks like the vassal thing persists... When I came back, Netherlands (World Power #1) had Persia (World Power #2) as a vassal in the very late game (year was 1975 on King). Since they had a DoF, I assumed it was a peaceful vassalization. Then, then went to war with each another.

Also, Netherlands won a Science Victory on year... 2046. I had never seen a game lasting so long on King

 

[Gazebo]

I had no time to play today, ran an observer game while I was away instead. Looks like the vassal thing persists... When I came back, Netherlands (World Power #1) had Persia (World Power #2) as a vassal in the very late game (year was 1975 on King). Since they had a DoF, I assumed it was a peaceful vassalization. Then, then went to war with each another.

Also, Netherlands won a Science Victory on year... 2046. I had never seen a game lasting so long on King

I've run multiple tests and can't confirm- very possible that it was part of a war.

G

 

[Aldebaran1997]

Other changes are all good to me, but Mastery is nerfed too hardly, imho. Losing some flat yields means researching techs and constructing building slower, and it means you can get specialists later, which also means delaying your progress. Yes, it was OP but now it looks pretty bad. I think +1 GAP per specialist with current yields won't be OP but it will be in a better position.

 

[Shiva777]

Mastery needed to be nerfed, as you built specialist the yields were by far the best in game. From my personal opinion by late game libraries , universities and public schools were like any culture producing specialist. If that was the case (which it was) than culture from specialist was out of control when you add 2+ with bonus from technology.

 

[Dawnpromise]

I can agree with Mastery being a bit of an over-achieving belief, and seeing Cooperation get the nerf is also understandable (any AI taking that belief WILL turn into a runaway in most cases).

The barbarian reduction is also good nerf to Authority civs who have been recurring runaways in most games.

Also clarification: Does Sun-God pantheon apply to all farms or just farms on wheat?

 

[Gazebo]

I can agree with Mastery being a bit of an over-achieving belief, and seeing Cooperation get the nerf is also understandable (any AI taking that belief WILL turn into a runaway in most cases).

The barbarian reduction is also good nerf to Authority civs who have been recurring runaways in most games.

Also clarification: Does Sun-God pantheon apply to all farms or just farms on wheat?

wheat farms

 

[crushboss]

I would love to play the update but I get a CTD when attempting to start a new game. I deleted the cache, ModUserData, and ModdedSaves folders and tried it a second time with only Vox Populi enabled. I also went into Steam and verified the integrity of the game files. I can install the 8-8-2017 version and it works without issue. Wiped my mods folder and tried it a third time and got the same instant CTD when starting a new game. I'll do some more troubleshooting...

UPDATE
It appears that your DLL changes to CvGameCore_Expansion2.dll is the issue. If I use the DLL from version 8-8 it works fine with no other changes.

Also, it is really bad coding practice to make changes to a module, in this case the 'Community Patch' and not increase the revision number. Since they are both version .88 (in 8-8 and 8-23 versions), people assume there are no changes.

You made the following changes to the Community Patch in version 8-23:

CvGameCore_Expansion2.dll
CoreChanges.sql
CoreTableEntries.sql

This is reflected in the md5 hash number. You also made numerous changes to the 'Community Balance Overhaul' without increasing the revision number.

If players are CTDing on game start they can use the DLL from the 8-8 version until the issue is resolved by the Vox Populi team.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Is there ever enough wheat to justify Sun God? In the best wheat situations, you really just want Spirit of the Desert instead. In non-floodplain scenarios, I feel like wheat is either not plentiful or a substandard choice.

Perhaps Sun God's effects can extend to regular farms and reward someone who simply had a vast flatland to farm? Say, Two Adjacent farms add +1 faith to the farm they're near (ala how the food bonus works for farms in clusters)?

 

[tu_79]

Is there ever enough wheat to justify Sun God? In the best wheat situations, you really just want Spirit of the Desert instead. In non-floodplain scenarios, I feel like wheat is either not plentiful or a substandard choice.

Perhaps Sun God's effects can extend to regular farms and reward someone who simply had a vast flatland to farm? Say, Two Adjacent farms add +1 faith to the farm they're near (ala how the food bonus works for farms in clusters)?

I've started two games and in none of them was sun god any worth. Wheat is like marble, is spread out all around the world, never found in clusters. Ocassionally there are clusters of minable luxuries and resources, and even rarer is to find a cluster of stones/marble/lapis to make that other pantheon work. But wheat?

We had a similar discussion with plantations. Plantations aren't rare, but they come too late for their faith to matter, so faith points were put into a building, the market. A simple, perhaps boring way to deal with sun god would be to put faith in granaries and let farms on wheat yield culture or production. A more complex way would be to let farms on wheat yield +3 faith, and a bonus every 3 worked normal farms. I don't think you could take more than 12 faith points before foundings.

 

[Owlbebach]

Is there ever enough wheat to justify Sun God? In the best wheat situations, you really just want Spirit of the Desert instead. In non-floodplain scenarios, I feel like wheat is either not plentiful or a substandard choice.

Perhaps Sun God's effects can extend to regular farms and reward someone who simply had a vast flatland to farm? Say, Two Adjacent farms add +1 faith to the farm they're near (ala how the food bonus works for farms in clusters)?

I can recall couple of games where i had ~6-8 wheats but thats a very rare situation. Though i used this pantheon couple of times as a source of early culture. I think it should be 2/2 and something else like food or gold or maybe production

 

[Borussia]

I have bad events disabled but bad events happen.
If the bug persists I will post on github.
And I had a CTD on the enemies turn once.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Inspiration already was my go-to belief, now that it has a higher limit and culture is even more scarce as Scientists got nerfed nothing will even compare. Also Culture was already a bit too slow, so I think some buildings should get +1Culture (like Amphitheatre, Caravansary and Temple?) to compensate for Scientist's cultural nerf. Maybe Scientists were too good in comparison to others, but that's -2/3 culture lost per city in medieval (3 if you go Fealty) that's not readded anywhere, so a pretty heavy loss as Inspiration gets a pretty heavy buff. Caravansary and Temple having +1 base Culture without any requirements could be what they need to become more popular again, too. Not sure if Cooperation needed a nerf, it never worked for me and seemed like a belief only good for AI.

Besides that the patch looks good, though +1 Faith for two pop one seems a bit on the bad side. At least with the higher limit I might consider it as Spain for synergy though, but I don't expect miracles even as them.

 

[Gazebo]

I would love to play the update but I get a CTD when attempting to start a new game. I deleted the cache, ModUserData, and ModdedSaves folders and tried it a second time with only Vox Populi enabled. I also went into Steam and verified the integrity of the game files. I can install the 8-8-2017 version and it works without issue. Wiped my mods folder and tried it a third time and got the same instant CTD when starting a new game. I'll do some more troubleshooting...

UPDATE
It appears that your DLL changes to CvGameCore_Expansion2.dll is the issue. If I use the DLL from version 8-8 it works fine with no other changes.

Also, it is really bad coding practice to make changes to a module, in this case the 'Community Patch' and not increase the revision number. Since they are both version .88 (in 8-8 and 8-23 versions), people assume there are no changes.

You made the following changes to the Community Patch in version 8-23:

CvGameCore_Expansion2.dll
CoreChanges.sql
CoreTableEntries.sql

This is reflected in the md5 hash number. You also made numerous changes to the 'Community Balance Overhaul' without increasing the revision number.

If players are CTDing on game start they can use the DLL from the 8-8 version until the issue is resolved by the Vox Populi team.

I don't use the version number in modbuddy because it messes with the autonistaller.

G

 

[tu_79]

Inspiration already was my go-to belief, now that it has a higher limit and culture is even more scarce as Scientists got nerfed nothing will even compare. Also Culture was already a bit too slow, so I think some buildings should get +1Culture (like Amphitheatre, Caravansary and Temple?) to compensate for Scientist's cultural nerf. Maybe Scientists were too good in comparison to others, but that's -2/3 culture lost per city in medieval (3 if you go Fealty) that's not readded anywhere, so a pretty heavy loss as Inspiration gets a pretty heavy buff. Caravansary and Temple having +1 base Culture without any requirements could be what they need to become more popular again, too. Not sure if Cooperation needed a nerf, it never worked for me and seemed like a belief only good for AI.

Besides that the patch looks good, though +1 Faith for two pop one seems a bit on the bad side. At least with the higher limit I might consider it as Spain for synergy though, but I don't expect miracles even as them.

I took cooperation with India and Inca, and it went fairly well in King, even nerfed it should work right for these civs. In this version I'm playing very wide with England, and Inspiration seems the best option in my game (completely lacking culture), but other civs/gameplay may have better follower beliefs.

 

[Workerspam]

Is there ever enough wheat to justify Sun God? In the best wheat situations, you really just want Spirit of the Desert instead. In non-floodplain scenarios, I feel like wheat is either not plentiful or a substandard choice.

Perhaps Sun God's effects can extend to regular farms and reward someone who simply had a vast flatland to farm? Say, Two Adjacent farms add +1 faith to the farm they're near (ala how the food bonus works for farms in clusters)?

I think it's fine; it's a niche pantheon. Back when I played on Communitas maps I took it a fair number of times; it's culture and faith on an improvement that requires no techs and no compromises (as you generally will work wheat farms regardless). I haven't taken it since I started playing Planet Simulator; wheat is simply rarer and less clustered. But if I find a situation where I can work 4 wheats in my first two cities and a couple more after that I would have to consider grabbing it.

 

[De_Genius]

Funny.. I see the AI grab Sun God almost every time I play

 

[Mad Madigan]

Playing a game as Brazil and Spain is trolling half of my continent. They took Sun God with 4-5 wheats near their capital and second city and managed to be the first Civ to found a religion (no Celts, India, or Ethiopia in this game). Then they went hardcore towards spreading their religion rather than enhancing and now 3 other Civs and myself have Catholicism as their primary religion, but NO WHEAT resources within my borders. I could conquer Madrid and take their religion over, but I'd still have the Sun God pantheon... Oh well, time to see how easily Brazil can win a Cultural Vic with a religion with Sun God, Cathedrals, and Faith to the Masses reformation!

 

[Txurce]

Just finished a game. Small sample size, but barbs seemed under control, vassalization was frequent but made sense to me, and no opinion on OB's (since I turtled up mostly).