New Version - July 17th (7-17)

[tommytoxen]

hotfix posted for vassal/coop war issues (uploading now):

https://mega.nz/#F!DMsxkDYI!zSpR9CHpmAfWyIvMXaN3pw

Y'all leave me alone now, I'm going to go get a drink.

G

aw yay, thanks man

anyone knows what this means?

happens everytime i open the exe 7-17-3

 

[Gordon Ramesses]

aw yay, thanks man

anyone knows what this means?

happens everytime i open the exe 7-17-3

Off the top of my head, the most likely cause for this issue would be the Microsoft .NET framework being disabled or incorrectly installed. Try enabling the .Net framework assuming it is disabled (see this link for more information). Alternitively, try installing the Microsoft .Net framework assuming you do not even have it installed on your PC.

If all else fails, you could try running the 7-17-3 .exe as admin

 

[Crag Hack]

As I've always said, human mouth-feel is more important to me than AI performance. The AI is handling the change well (but the AI also loves food) - if we find that the human experience is degraded by increased food costs, we can tweak those values.

G

I have suggestions about how the mod might be tweaked to make it even more interesting. The idea is to change things such that they provoke deep change of tactics in the human player.

There are several ways to make the mod interesting and varied from human perspective

I. Keep changing the core rules regularly
This way every new patch will be basically a new EDITION with new core rules. That is how I currently play the mod. In essence....I don't care much about the changes themselves in too great detail, but I care about winning the game with the new rules. So every EDITION is a new challenge to me.



II. Change the victory conditions. You can keep the core rules unchanged.

1. Religious victory - becoming the world religion or something along these lines and the world sing Allah Akbar non-stop.

2. Economic victory - showing the world that you are the greediest ruler of the world. Maybe by having the highest gold output by certain end-game turn, maybe by reaching a certain % of the world gold output. The idea is to play the game emphasizing gold production to the extreme. Watch for those thieving spies. Make the Great Merchants really central into this, corporations too.

3. Science victory
a) keep the space race (is good as is)
b) introduce alternative parallel space victory, maybe having the highest number of GS academies. BUt keep the scientific achievement far from militaristic discoveries because one problem with science victory currently is that it also makes gives you access to powerful military. Let the scientific projects be truly scientific in nature only.

4. Culture victory
a) maybe emphasize the great works of art more and their combo effects. For example achieving culture victory if you can construct a unique and complex work of art which requires you to have combo of different cultures arts and artifacts and pictures and writings. Something complex that may require to conquer another cultural empire and obtain all their works in order to construct the project.
b) keep the current system as alternative threat to cultural victory

5. Military victory - to be aligned with production and not necessarily with conquest. The conquests on huge maps can be troublesome. Maybe shifting the hydrogen bomb project late in the game and once you obtain the bomb (or maybe several of them) you basically claim military victory. Maybe as a reward you have to drop a few of them on someone. But these bombs should be made very production intensive so you must concentrate on extreme production economy (just like economic victory emphasizes on gold output).

6. Revolutionary victory - to be aligned with social policies. Maybe you have to be a culture machine and strive to unlock as much policies as you can to achieve this type of victory. So you could be highly cultural but not chasing great works of art but pure culture output. Then at the end unlock something exotic, like the sex revolution.

7. Diplomatic victory - current voting delegates system is sound but maybe should be aligned more with empire size. So that you develop a tactics of expansion (peaceful) and the more population you have the more delegates you may hold. And also to have resolutions that can directly attack the rest of the victory conditions so that you slow them down.



III. Overhaul of the tech tree
This tech tree currently is boring to me. No matter what victory condition you seek it all ends up building the same technologies. More separation is needed and more specialization is needed in the tech tree. Branches are needed each leading to the 4 victories in style.

These are my ideas. I leave the coding to you lol

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I. Keep changing the core rules regularly
This way every new patch will be basically a new EDITION with new core rules. That is how I currently play the mod. In essence....I don't care much about the changes themselves in too great detail, but I care about winning the game with the new rules. So every EDITION is a new challenge to me.

You do realize this project is like 6 years in, and is in the process of trying to wrap everything up? Also, each new version's changes already make it feel like a new experience a lot of the time.

II. Change the victory conditions. You can keep the core rules unchanged.

You know there's a mod-mod that already does all this, right? Even default game setup has basic options for enabling/disabling victory conditions.

1. Religious victory - becoming the world religion or something along these lines and the world sing Allah Akbar non-stop.

Ohh boy...

The conquests on huge maps can be troublesome.

This is true, but domination is probably the hardest to predict and balance.

III. Overhaul of the tech tree
This tech tree currently is boring to me. No matter what victory condition you seek it all ends up building the same technologies. More separation is needed and more specialization is needed in the tech tree. Branches are needed each leading to the 4 victories in style.

Don't think you're the first to propose something like this, but again, ain't going to happen at this point.

These are my ideas. I leave the coding to you lol

Yeah, that's gonne be a "no" from G, dawg...

 

[Crag Hack]

@Kim

Yes I know that none can happen. That is tremendous amount of work.

I have question. I am currently in Atomic era. About to trigger cultural victory. But not sure why not working.

Out of 40 remaining Civs, 38 are Dominant over, and 2 are Influential over. Empire is content. But not able to start the Human project.

Hmm, do I have to get those 2 Civs to Dominant too ? I thought Influential is enough, it is over 100%. Or do I have to advance to Information era ?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

@Kim

Yes I know that none can happen. That is tremendous amount of work.

I have question. I am currently in Atomic era. About to trigger cultural victory. But not sure why not working.

Out of 40 remaining Civs, 38 are Dominant over, and 2 are Influential over. Empire is content. But not able to start the Human project.

Hmm, do I have to get those 2 Civs to Dominant too ? I thought Influential is enough, it is over 100%. Or do I have to advance to Information era ?

You have to get 2 Tier 3 tenets in your ideology before Panopticon or whatever it's called now is available, tech doesn't matter AFAIK.

 

[Crag Hack]

@Enrico Swagolo
Confirmed. Just picked a second T3 and Citizen Earth Protocol is now available for building. In 11 turns I claim victory

 

[Moi Magnus]

Panopticon or whatever it's called now

For those having problems to remember the name "Citizen Earth Protocol", maybe some explanation on "why this name?" can help:

Long before Vox Populi, at the time where Civ 5 didn't have yet any expansion, there was a mod that started this adventure. It started as the "Civilization Unofficial Patch", and as expansions for Civ 5 were released, this mod became more an more complex, slowly modifying more an more parts of Civ 5 while keeping the spirit of it: it was the Community Expansion Pack from Thalassicus. (Note: the Communitas map was created for this mod, but the whole mod is no longer maintained since ~5 years).

The name "Citizen Earth Protocol" is an homage to this precursor.

 

[CrazyG]

You have to get 2 Tier 3 tenets in your ideology before Panopticon or whatever it's called now is available, tech doesn't matter AFAIK.

It has no tech requirement.

 

[I_Play_Prince_Difficulty]

Boy, I do love me some good mouthfeel.

"Why is nobody talking about the mouthfeel?"

I take a break from Civ 5 and come back to a Tiffany Tumbles quote
10/10

 

[Guynemer]

As I've always said, human mouth-feel is more important to me than AI performance. The AI is handling the change well (but the AI also loves food) - if we find that the human experience is degraded by increased food costs, we can tweak those values.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I feel internal trade routes are heavily overnerfed. The value of instant yield was far bigger than those 2/4 yields per turn because it scaled per era - now, the 2 per turn from Workshop is about equal or slightly worse in medieval for what the sender gave you, worse in renaissance, and incomparably inferior in later eras and you also lose the yields from the TR receiver which previously gave you the value, so in reality it's even worse.

Now, the value of internal trade route buffing buildings is slightly below 50% of their previous power at medieval (around 40%?), less than 33% of what they gave previously in renaissance, and even less later. Considering Internal trade routes turn nearly useless after Corporations because you have to spread the things around unless you go Order, it doesn't seem like the change in the right direction. Workshop feels somewhat bad at this now, and so do the other buildings.

 

[ridjack]

I'm currently working my way through a game with Venice (my thoughts so far are in Venice's leader thread, for those interested); this is my first game with vassalage disabled, and I have a question for those who use it:

In my previous games, a warmonger AI would usually take a capital, vassalize the civ and move on to other things, most notably sending their army to the next conquest. In this game, the Inca have already completely removed Portugal from the game. They've since conquered Babylon's capital, but rather than peace out and turn towards me, which was my expectation, they're currently ignoring me and appear to be obsessively going after Babylon's last remaining city, even after a I planted a citadel right in Pachacuti's face and stole his horses. He also tried to buy the city I was expecting him to attack, literally the turn after he took Babylon; purchasing cities is something I almost never see an AI do unless it's one of their cities I conquered from them.

With an n of 1, it sorta feels like obsession to annihilate, since they can't vassalize, might be crippling the AI somewhat? If Pachacuti had turned and attacked when I expected him to, the troops I had standing in defense would have at least suffered heavy losses (I had spearmen and archers+compies, he had pikemen), and most likely I would have been unable to defend that city against his superior forces. If he attacked now, he'd be facing my tercios and crossbows with those same pikemen and (Logistics-having) compies. I'd still take some losses, but there's zero chance of me losing that city.

I guess my question is something like... does anyone know if any of that holds water? Does the AI obsessively destroy civs when they're unable to vassalize, or is that just a particular quirk of this particular game's Pachacuti?

 

[andersw]

I feel internal trade routes are heavily overnerfed. The value of instant yield was far bigger than those 2/4 yields per turn because it scaled per era - now, the 2 per turn from Workshop is about equal or slightly worse in medieval for what the sender gave you, worse in renaissance, and incomparably inferior in later eras and you also lose the yields from the TR receiver which previously gave you the value, so in reality it's even worse.

Now, the value of internal trade route buffing buildings is slightly below 50% of their previous power at medieval (around 40%?), less than 33% of what they gave previously in renaissance, and even less later. Considering Internal trade routes turn nearly useless after Corporations because you have to spread the things around unless you go Order, it doesn't seem like the change in the right direction. Workshop feels somewhat bad at this now, and so do the other buildings.

Internal trade route nerf is (I guess) an indirect nerf to warmongering.
Used with mendiancy its not that bad?

 

[Stalker0]

I feel internal trade routes are heavily overnerfed.

ETRs also got some nerf, so that's important to remember. Right now I'm playing pretty ITR heavy in my game (medieval) and their values seem good in comparison to what I would get with ETRs, enough that I have bounced back and forth as to what I want. Can't speak to the late game though, I do imagine ITRs will fall off once again, but I will see as I play.

 

[John.B.C]

I haven't been able to see the "monopoly bonus" when hoovering the cursor over resource icons, since a few patches back. I have to manually look it up in the monopoly corporation menu. I happen to know the monopoly bonuses by memory, but it's still anyoing. Is this intended?

 

[Moi Magnus]

I haven't been able to see the "monopoly bonus" when hoovering the cursor over resource icons, since a few patches back. I have to manually look it up in the monopoly corporation menu. I happen to know the monopoly bonuses by memory, but it's still anyoing. Is this intended?

In the option menu, if my memory is not wrong, there should be somewhere a timer which essentially says "how much time you have to hover above something to have the full tooltip". Have you tried reducing this value to 0?

 

[John.B.C]

Also, I have commented on this before; that all your available resources has been removed from the interface of this menu:

Spoiler resources removed :

The line showing ALL your available resources was presented below distress, poverty and illiteracy as I remember it.

@BitlenTheMark has pointed out that you can see what you have "available" hoovering the cursor on your own character to the right. But the information provided here is "lacking", because it doesn't show the resources one has available from city-states. Also the information provided at your portrait is "muddled together" with a bounch of other information which make it hard to just check in an instant.

I would like to be able to see the "total amount" of resources available once again; please?

 

[John.B.C]

In the option menu, if my memory is not wrong, there should be somewhere a timer which essentially says "how much time you have to hover above something to have the full tooltip". Have you tried reducing this value to 0?

That's not the problem? Like in this exampel hoovering over the "gem":

Spoiler Gem :

Earlier it showed the monopoly bonus here (10% gold in all cities), but now the only thing I see is +1 gold.

 

[Crag Hack]

In the option menu, if my memory is not wrong, there should be somewhere a timer which essentially says "how much time you have to hover above something to have the full tooltip". Have you tried reducing this value to 0?

Wow. I never realized this. Because answering 0 to this question meant naturally to me that you want the tooltip to be instantaneous. So I actually always moved the slider to the far right as much as it allows.