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New Version - July 17th (7-17)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    Wasn't this patch mainly about making fast growth more viable? Or your comparing it against the previous July (12) patch? Did removing local pop cap (Jul 12) make tall cities more viable? I'm still on pre-july-12 patch with the local cap where when cities grow too large its game over, no way to fight unhappiness. I thought this is whats been mainly addressed in the last two patches.
     
  2. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    At 100 turns on Immortal, Jr. (settler/pathfinder to start for all) on a Continents Plus Custom map, happiness has been easy enough, but not automatic in all cities.

    Growth is slightly alower per city, but not by much. Note: the human player is the sole Progress civ.

    Tradition (5): 2/15, 6/43, 6/41, 4/26, 4/27
    Authority (2): 5/35, 6/41
    Progress (1): 5/34
     
  3. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    Authority on isolated island seems like you will fall behind on culture and science because you have nothing to kill
     
  4. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

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    Carthage is my early -- mid -- endgame. It is my gold hoarding easy fix to any difficulty level. Plop a city, gain money, rush build, repeat. Do you think Dido was hot?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    Ziad, Kim Dong Un and Gazebo like this.
  5. tommytoxen

    tommytoxen Warlord

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    huh, wasnt in my last game. i do update rarely though, now i remember why :p
     
  6. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Still playing the 6-2 version and in my eyes it was happiness wise in a great spot. It was tough if you expanded to fast, but later on relative easy to handle. Even with rapid growth from India, I was able to handle the unhappiness, work a lot of specialists and stay most the time at 100%.
    And the patch wasnt directly aiming growth. The aim was to increase the value of food, which can be achieved by different ways. But inreasing growth cost is none of them.
     
  7. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Please report this on GitHub.
     
  8. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    vyyt likes this.
  9. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

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    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    Barbarians to kill + rush fishing to go for more barbs and ruins on surrounding isles + UI that gives science early. I was rather fine.
     
  10. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    I had a lot easier time with happiness as wide warmonger.
    No real issues until 25'ish cities but growth is slower and culture feels a tad bit slower as well.
    Mainly getting much less distress.
     
  11. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I took a hand at converting the growth function code into more laymen's terms, but I'm struggling a bit. It seems that iExtraPopThreshold has two different formulas. I'm not sure when each one comes into play:

    int iExtraPopThreshold = int((iPopulation-1) * /*12*/ GC.getCITY_GROWTH_MULTIPLIER());
    iExtraPopThreshold = (int) pow(double(iPopulation-1), (double) /*2.22*/ GC.getCITY_GROWTH_EXPONENT());
     
  12. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    The Celts asked me to DoW Babylon along with them. I agreed. The Celts are now at war with Babylon... and I am at war with the Celts.

    Has this bug been reported?
     
  13. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    No unhappiness problems so far at 12 cities, but the game is far slower. On Authority, at a point in game (600~AD) I usually had at least 8-10 pop cities, I now have at most 6-7 pop excluding the Apostolic Tradition capital with far more, but that one also got 4 pop from random ruins. While the start's not very Food heavy, the lost Authority's Food + more cost to grow borders + more cost to get citizens are showing themselves. I've never in all my hours had a game where, at this turn, no city but capital had even 8 pop, not even on Desert or Tundra starts, and that's despite me going Granary + Well first in some cities on this version to try it out. The cities which don't even have a Granary have a similar pop.

    I feel like I tech slower (and I got like 10+ ruins because I was alone on an island with a ton of barbies to farm), get Culture slower, this feels wrong somehow. Will I value Food more? Not sure, Granaries don't seem to be helping all that much, I feel forced to go Fealty or never grow to 10 before industrial because Artistry/Statecraft provide no Food (outside of capital in latter's case), but I simply do not like what this patch is doing. I'd rather have some sort of anti-progressive scalers on buildings that aren't Workshop-tier bad to the point it doesn't even matter how much you grow as the building will always be bad, like ones where something occurs like:
    1 :c5gold: at 5 pop
    2 :c5gold: at 9 pop
    3 :c5gold: at 12 pop
    4 :c5gold: at 15 pop (scaler never gets better than 1 for 3 pop)
    The more pop you have, the less it takes to get another yield, up to a point. This way greater population is encouraged, but is that even what the patch tries to accomplish, or was it meant to slow down wide growth? So far the game's slowed down as a whole, but maybe it's just this start. I will drop it because the situation's boring and try another with more Food around, I guess, but so far I don't like it much.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Desmos calc for this function: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/b4d4tluwuv

    G
     
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  15. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    You are spot-on re: controlling wide growth a bit. Wide players simply have it too easy, wide warmongering especially.

    G
     
  16. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Well, I think Authority will be almost forced to go Fealty unless you have a Food heavy start or civ with bonus Food (Aztecs, France, maybe India?). It'll take some time getting used to, it feels wrong right now but it might not do so 3 games later. I won't be going Artistry much with an Authority starter.

    All of that is an indirect nerf to Spain (though the rest should buff it), Crusader Spirit, Hero Worship, Apostolic Tradition, pop-based beliefs, anything else pop-based because everyone will grow slower as a result of less Growth (and Food for Au/Pr), but I guess if you keep those changes from this patch, those can be adjusted if they feel bad
     
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  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    As I've always said, human mouth-feel is more important to me than AI performance. The AI is handling the change well (but the AI also loves food) - if we find that the human experience is degraded by increased food costs, we can tweak those values.

    G
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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  19. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Perfect. So yeah the function is what I thought.

    So for the laymen's out there, here is how growth work.

    (O) Needed Food to Grow = 15 + (CurPopulation - 1) * 12 + (CurPopulation - 1) ^ 2.22
    (N) Needed Food to Grow = 15 + (CurPopulation - 1) * 13 + (CurPopulation - 1) ^ 2.26
     
  20. Gordon Ramesses

    Gordon Ramesses Chieftain

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    Boy, I do love me some good mouthfeel.

    "Why is nobody talking about the mouthfeel?"
     
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