New Version - July 18th (7/18)

[CrazyG]

I have a question about golden ages. If I'm not in a golden age, and a use an artist for a golden age, the cost of the next golden age increases. But if I'm already in a golden age, the cost of the next won't increase.

This makes just popping an artist questionable outside of golden ages, the increased cost of the next golden age is a substantial downside. It also makes spamming lots of golden ages in a row a really good strategy. Its actually much cheaper in terms of golden age points to stay going forever, rather than continuously enter and exit. In particular it means that using tradition's early artist for a golden age is a really bad idea

Is this intentional?

 

[Owlbebach]

I have a question about golden ages. If I'm not in a golden age, and a use an artist for a golden age, the cost of the next golden age increases. But if I'm already in a golden age, the cost of the next won't increase.

This makes just popping an artist questionable outside of golden ages, the increased cost of the next golden age is a substantial downside. It also makes spamming lots of golden ages in a row a really good strategy. Its actually much cheaper in terms of golden age points to stay going forever, rather than continuously enter and exit. In particular it means that using tradition's early artist for a golden age is a really bad idea

Is this intentional?

Year i noticed that too, forgot to mention it here. I believe Great Artists should not increase Golden Age cost

 

[Funak]

Year i noticed that too, forgot to mention it here. I believe Great Artists should not increase Golden Age cost

Yeah this sounds right.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Agree with the GA thing.

The automatic tile expansion selection mechanism is still ignoring atolls (4f, 2p), it'd be great if this were addressed.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Agree with the GA thing.

The automatic tile expansion selection mechanism is still ignoring atolls (4f, 2p), it'd be great if this were addressed.

It's not exactly ignoring them in my experience, it just prefers all the resources instead but will go for an atoll over a regular coast if given the opportunity, so it's about fine.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I'll play closer attention in my next games, Enrico, perhaps you're right. But I think it should prioritize atolls over marshes, flood plains, cattle, bison, sheep. I don't think it does.

 

[joosegoose25]

Very small sample size regarding the free tenet change, but I just played a game where literally every civ in the game went Freedom. I've never seen that before.

 

[droberts97470]

Is community patch (v.88) the newest? That's what shows up on the MODS screen on my machine. If not can somebody point me to the correct download?

 

[HalfEmptyMug]

Is community patch (v.88) the newest?

The file number usually stays the same through versions, it's the installer you want to make sure is current. The latest version's available through the link at the beginning of this thread, and the link on the "How to Install" page is updated when new versions are released.

 

[wobuffet]

@Moi Magnus @tu_79
I've started a thread on upgrading and not upgrading units as an extension of your guys' posts here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/finding-a-strategic-home-for-outdated-units.620262/

 

[Stryfe002]

Very small sample size regarding the free tenet change, but I just played a game where literally every civ in the game went Freedom. I've never seen that before.

This also has happened twice in a row for me as well. One of the games someone revolted into Order, dragged two others with them, but everyone appears to follow the first person here.

 

[Jarula]

Yeah It needs to change back I would propose 3 2 1 for ideologies and bring back 3 factories

 

[wobuffet]

In principle I don't mind the world eventually being dominated by one Ideology on occasion, but it seems boring for that to be the norm.

The easy answer would be to split the difference between the old and the new:

+2 free tenet as a bonus to the first adopter of any Ideology, and +1 free tenet for any later adopters.​

(unless I missed the patch changelog where this has already been tried!)

 

[Funak]

Yeah It needs to change back I would propose 3 2 1 for ideologies and bring back 3 factories

In principle I don't mind the world eventually being dominated by one Ideology on occasion, but it seems boring for that to be the norm.

The easy answer would be to split the difference between the old and the new:

+2 free policies as a bonus to the first adopter of any Ideology, and +1 free policy for any later adopters.​

(unless I missed the patch changelog where this has already been tried!)

Giving extra tenets to the first person who adopts an ideology just means giving more advantages to the person in the lead.

 

[CrazyG]

We need some way to encourage diversification of ideologies, I'm also seeing a distinct lack of cold wars.

You could give a free tenet if you are the first to take an ideology, and you also gain a free tenet if all ideologies have already been taken. Basically the second and third civs to reach an ideology are encouraged to pick whatever remains unpicked, and the later civs still don't fall behind.

 

[wobuffet]

Giving extra tenets to the first person who adopts an ideology just means giving more advantages to the person in the lead.

Sure, I understand that snowballing is a big problem. But up to 3 players get the extra "first adopter" tenet, which is nearly half of the Civs (possibly more if Civs were eliminated) on a Standard map.

Consider this: being one of the first Civs to research any given Tech gives you some advantage (militarily and/or economically) throughout the game. In my mind, "first to adopt" bonus tenets achieve a similar "race" effect for Social Policies, but only once, for higher stakes, and only affecting the last 1/3 of the game.
(edit: I guess World Wonders introduce "races" for SPs too, especially the Policy-unlocked ones.)

You could give a free policy if you are the first to take a tenet, and you also gain a free policy if all tenets have already been taken. Basically the second and third civs to reach an ideology are encouraged to pick whatever remains unpicked, and the later civs still don't fall behind.

I think you mean "tenet" when you say "policy" and "Ideology" when you say "tenet"!

 

[Jarula]

Maybe my idea could work...

4 3 2 policies but adopting a ideology makes x turns of resistance per city. and a rebel unit for each... First would be 4 times x turns, second 3 times x turns, subsequent 2 times x turns...

makes things pretty damn cool... adopting an ideology means the rest of the world will try to interfere... (which historically has always happened) and also slows down the late game treadmill... Adopting an ideology means you have to literally fight a civil war for a good amount of time... and very often an invasion.

Lets say the base is 2 right that means 8 turns of civil war on standard 24 turns on marathon. Real pain for the adopter but the 4 free tenets means in the end its worth it.

Plus with such a large number of tenets that means... that all of the AI actually have incentives to pick different ideologies...

And one more thing another way to diversify ideologies is to make more tenets... more policies to choose from... there are 2 extra in tier 2 what if you had 4 choices for tier 3 and an extra 3 choices for tier 1?

For example for Freedom
Tier 1 adds
Free Press Adds flat +1 tourism per 4 pop per city +1 culture per 4 pop per city
World Stage Adds bonus to expending great diplomats and diplomats in city states
Freedom of Movement Adds +1 happiness for 8 pop

For example for Order
Tier 1 adds
Workers Rights each active worker provides +1 happiness +5 culture globally
Propaganda Department Each guild provides +25% tourism
Liberation for the Oppressed Every time an opponents players unit is killed within your boundaries an additional +100% culture

 

[CrazyG]

I think you mean "tenet" when you say "policy" and "Ideology" when you say "tenet"!

Edit fixed it

 

[Gazebo]

We need some way to encourage diversification of ideologies, I'm also seeing a distinct lack of cold wars.

You could give a free tenet if you are the first to take an ideology, and you also gain a free tenet if all ideologies have already been taken. Basically the second and third civs to reach an ideology are encouraged to pick whatever remains unpicked, and the later civs still don't fall behind.

In the code, the 'value' of free tenets is actually not all that great. I feel like this is RNGesus playing a joke on us, but I'll look at the numbers. You can look at your own in the PolicyAILog file.

G

 

[CrazyG]

Consider this: being one of the first Civs to research any given Tech gives you some advantage (militarily and/or economically) throughout the game. In my mind, "first to adopt" bonus tenets achieve a similar "race" effect for Social Policies, but only once, for higher stakes, and only affecting the last 1/3 of the game.
(edit: I guess World Wonders introduce "races" for SPs too, especially the Policy-unlocked ones.)

So if I open rationalism 5 turns before you do, I get some bonus science and food for 5 turns more than you do. Is it a nice bonus for me? Yes. But that amount of yields is something that can be overcome.

If I open freedom before you do, I get an entire social policy more than you do. If I remember the discussion that led to the change of all civs getting just 1 tenet, everyone agreed that it rewarded the current leader too much, while the current losers were punished too hard.

In the code, the 'value' of free tenets is actually not all that great. I feel like this is RNGesus playing a joke on us, but I'll look at the numbers. You can look at your own in the PolicyAILog file.

G

It might just be confirmation bias. Or it might be that tourism creates more ideological pressure than it should, faster than it should