New Version - October 21st (10/21)

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vyyt said:
True. One more thing to mention is that this mod lets you rotate through half of the available starting locations. Honestly, I don't know how much it shuffles the other civs ==> how much it causes the bizzarities you mention.

So maybe if you (for example) "steal" a starting location of Aztecs in jungle, the game will (probably) try to place them in another available jungle start, which might kick out another jungle-biased civ to a completely random start like tundra. No idea.

I usually play with crowded (huge) maps, so I think some oddities would be still be happening, but I do not see them too often.
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I have no idea if I only end up stealing the position of one of the civs, but I've seen a few games where 3 or 4 civs were 'displaced', of course map generation is pretty random, so these might just be coincidences, but I'm noticing it a lot more when I'm using the mod.


By the way, G, how about this?

Funak said:
Kinda off-topic, but could we please change the default-settings to disable tech-trading and enable research-agreements? I fear it is really confusing for first-time users, and also tech-trading is a Civ4D feature, it is there for fun but it is hardly a balance-improvement (probably actually the opposite)
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Gazebo said:
Why? I mean, we can, but a lot of players use it this way without complaint.
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Well if someone tried out the mod for the first time I would prefer them seeing the best part of it, which is keeping the RAs instead of the tech trading.

  • Research-agreements are used in the base-game, keeping them around serves to create less confusion.
  • Tech-trading comes online so much later into the game that you're stuck without a major gold-dump for half the game. (and even when it comes online it isn't guaranteed to fix that)
  • The Ivory tower unique effect without RAs activated is silly and crazy powerful. It represents what you've been trying to get out of the game, the percentual mods.
  • The loss of RAs is making DoFs feel less necessary, meaning it reduces the warmonger penalty from losses of DoF and by that extension RAs.
  • In my opinion techtrading just doesn't feel balanced, at least RAs are based around your science output.
 
Funak said:
Well if someone tried out the mod for the first time I would prefer them seeing the best part of it, which is keeping the RAs instead of the tech trading.

  • Research-agreements are used in the base-game, keeping them around serves to create less confusion.
  • Tech-trading comes online so much later into the game that you're stuck without a major gold-dump for half the game. (and even when it comes online it isn't guaranteed to fix that)
  • The Ivory tower unique effect without RAs activated is silly and crazy powerful. It represents what you've been trying to get out of the game, the percentual mods.
  • The loss of RAs is making DoFs feel less necessary, meaning it reduces the warmonger penalty from losses of DoF and by that extension RAs.
  • In my opinion techtrading just doesn't feel balanced, at least RAs are based around your science output.
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I'd make a separate thread to discuss it, honestly. Is a pretty big 'default' change from what's been in thus far.
G
 
Gazebo said:
I'd make a separate thread to discuss it, honestly. Is a pretty big 'default' change from what's been in thus far.
G
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Okidoki, but it's not like people lose the ability to play with tech-trading, they just need to redo the setting once every time they clear their cache. I'm mostly thinking about people trying it out for the first time, I mean some of them can't seem to figure out of the automatic installer works, I wouldn't expect them to be able to change the settings :D
 
Funak said:
Okidoki, but it's not like people lose the ability to play with tech-trading, they just need to redo the setting once every time they clear their cache. I'm mostly thinking about people trying it out for the first time, I mean some of them can't seem to figure out of the automatic installer works, I wouldn't expect them to be able to change the settings :D
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I completely agree with Funak, I think it is confusing for new players who will think the "tech trading is part of CBP and is meant to be played with", while "old" CBP players know the option is there, so it won't be a big hassle for them turn the option on if they want to. The new thread about it might include a poll. It might prove helpful for this topic to see how many people play with the tech trading on. I do not like the tech trading concept at all, so I always disable it and have no first-hand experience, but does it not kind of break the game?
 
If you have not tried the Maya yet, this is the patch to do so. The synergy between their UI and the Herbalist is insane.
 
vyyt said:
I completely agree with Funak, I think it is confusing for new players who will think the "tech trading is part of CBP and is meant to be played with", while "old" CBP players know the option is there, so it won't be a big hassle for them turn the option on if they want to. The new thread about it might include a poll. It might prove helpful for this topic to see how many people play with the tech trading on. I do not like the tech trading concept at all, so I always disable it and have no first-hand experience, but does it not kind of break the game?
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I try to avoid switching default options without discussion.

G
 
Gazebo said:
I try to avoid switching default options without discussion.

G
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And it is a very good decision, which I fully support. I personally do not mind whatever will be decided about this as I am one of the "old" CBP players, so I know what options I have and where I can find them, but what I question is the expectations of the new players. If they are familiar with C4D, maybe they do expect the tech-trading option to be there, I don't know, but people who aren't familiar with it and do not even go to the advanced start screen will not know. Or they will think that tech-trading is a recommended option by CBP (- is it?).

Ok, enough of derailing this thread :)
 
vyyt said:
And it is a very good decision, which I fully support. I personally do not mind whatever will be decided about this as I am one of the "old" CBP players, so I know what options I have and where I can find them, but what I question is the expectations of the new players. If they are familiar with C4D, maybe they do expect the tech-trading option to be there, I don't know, but people who aren't familiar with it and do not even go to the advanced start screen will not know. Or they will think that tech-trading is a recommended option by CBP (- is it?).

Ok, enough of derailing this thread :)
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This is a new version announcement thread, they are supposed to derail :D.

Gothic_Empire said:
If you have not tried the Maya yet, this is the patch to do so. The synergy between their UI and the Herbalist is insane.
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Honestly, the synergy between the herbalist and any civ with or without forest/jungle-bonuses is pretty insane :D. Had to restart a match when I realized I had 3 times the production of the second best civ in my capital.
 
Funak said:
This is a new version announcement thread, they are supposed to derail :D.


Honestly, the synergy between the herbalist and any civ with or without forest/jungle-bonuses is pretty insane :D. Had to restart a match when I realized I had 3 times the production of the second best civ in my capital.
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My friend and I didn't want to wait for the multiplayer modpack and tried a hotseat game with CPP + a mod that allows hotseat with mods. He started as Russia in a dense forest. I started as Rome in a beautiful, river-filled desert.

He is kicking my ass so hard, and he's barely improved any tiles. He's leading me on production by so much that my *only slight* lead in population doesn't matter. It's a fun game, but he's clearly slated to win, and it's entirely because of the herbalist IMO.

I think the building is a great addition, tho. Forests before this were in an awkward place. The current herbalist was definitely overkill, but I have faith in ya'll's balancing skills. =)
 
Gothic_Empire said:
My friend and I didn't want to wait for the multiplayer modpack and tried a hotseat game with CPP + a mod that allows hotseat with mods. He started as Russia in a dense forest. I started as Rome in a beautiful, river-filled desert.

He is kicking my ass so hard, and he's barely improved any tiles. He's leading me on production by so much that my *only slight* lead in population doesn't matter. It's a fun game, but he's clearly slated to win, and it's entirely because of the herbalist IMO.

I think the building is a great addition, tho. Forests before this were in an awkward place. The current herbalist was definitely overkill, but I have faith in ya'll's balancing skills. =)
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Herbalist is getting the nerf hammer down to just +1f on forests/jungles and +2 base. The +1 production was overkill.

G
 
Culture gain on clearing camp for Attila is ok with this version.

Which is exactly the reason for no gold on clearing camp?
 
Ok, logical, thanks.

Authority is really a special policie for hardcoregamers if most of the early war-oriented are penalized :
  • The Huns don't get gold on camps and get Battery Rams on conscription (only one or 2 are needed others can be sold :D )
  • Rome don't get their UU on conscription but will have a lot of spearman to sell
  • I suppose it's the same for Assyria, Indonesia, and all other civs which UU requires a strategic ressource
  • ...?

I will let Autority to the 5 stars players and play all expansive civilizations with progress :D
 
Since I see no separate thread yet and I don't want to forget to chime in later, I agree 100% with what Funak said about Research Agreements vs Tech Trading.

I leave them both on, personally, but the default for people who don't know what options they like should probably be more similar to the base game unless you truly feel that the current way was meant to be.
 
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