New Warlords civs

[Rhye]

Carthagianians were basically Phoenicians ("Punics"), but overcrowding ME is the main reason that keeps me from doing the switch. Unless I manage to drive phoenicians somehow to carthage without founding other cities next to Tyre. That would be cool.
Changing the Ottomans to Turks would push the date from 1299 back to 1000 or 1071 and the starting location in eastern anatolia instead of centre/west anatolia

 

[UglyBoy]

The problems with driving them West would mean first having a very crowded ME but then also having to make their way past the Egyptians and Greeks. I could see them being wiped out quite often. Though I agree simulating the move of the Phoenicans to Carthage would be cool.

As for the Ottomans moving them back and starting them as something like the Seljuk could have some advantages but I don't see them being major. The small change in starting position wouldn't change much. The only factor would be the extra turns.

 

[Prestidigitator]

Ha! I have an idea , perhaps we could have the carthaginians start in Tunisia (their historic location), and have the phoenicians vassalized!

The problem is, by 800 BCE (start date?), probably the phoenicians would have been conquered so here's the deal...
1. Phoenicia is a minor civ, most probably will get conquered by Babylon or Egypt.
2. around 800 BCE, phoenicia resurrects, and becomes a vassal of Carthage, which gets born in around that date.

How does this sound Rhye?

 

[dh_epic]

That's an interesting idea, Prestidigitator. If it's possible to program without any other pitfalls, I'd like to see it happen.

 

[UglyBoy]

It sounds interesting. I thought that you wouldn't be able to contact minor civs and if I'm right in thinking that then how would a minor civ as a vassel work? Though I certainly think being able to make vassels of minor civs would be a valuable addition.

 

[Prestidigitator]

I'm glad you guys liked the idea , Rhye? what do you think?

 

[jbfballrb]

As for the Ottomans moving them back and starting them as something like the Seljuk could have some advantages but I don't see them being major. The small change in starting position wouldn't change much. The only factor would be the extra turns.

I think it would be neat to have the Ottomans start out in Central Asia-ish and have a Persia-like conquest to the west...

 

[McA123]

Ha! I have an idea , perhaps we could have the carthaginians start in Tunisia (their historic location), and have the phoenicians vassalized!

The problem is, by 800 BCE (start date?), probably the phoenicians would have been conquered so here's the deal...
1. Phoenicia is a minor civ, most probably will get conquered by Babylon or Egypt.
2. around 800 BCE, phoenicia resurrects, and becomes a vassal of Carthage, which gets born in around that date.

How does this sound Rhye?

I like the Carthage/Phoencian idea.. but wouldn't it make more sense for it to be the other way around, since Carthage was a colony? Although I think it would play out better the way it was proposed.

 

[UglyBoy]

I think it would be neat to have the Ottomans start out in Central Asia-ish and have a Persia-like conquest to the west...

I don't think starting them in central Asia as something comparable to the Gokturks would be a good idea. You would start them in a pretty barren region stunting their growth and then have to compete with China, India, Russia, Persia, Mongolia if they survive. And then to move West and conquer the Middle East and Anatolia would be something which that empire never really did. Plus Rhye only wanted to move the starting location from West to East Anatolia.

If you were to start them in 1071 as you suggested Rhye you could still call them the Ottomans without too much trouble since that was around the time the Sultanate of Rum was formed and the Ottomans pretty much claimed independeance from that. I think you could start them around central Anatolia.

If you started them in 1000 they would most certainly have to be Turks since they would more or less be representing the Seljuk as I said. If starting here they would have to start in Eastern Anatolia but really should start in Persia. But I don't think it would be good starting them on top of Persia.

Was this kind of comparable to your thinking Rhye this was just from some Ottoman history stuff I've been looking into over the past couple of weeks. Or have I missed something you were basing the starting dates/locations around? eg just from a gameplay perspective.

Edit: Oh yeah and I agree with you McA123 that it's not really correct but for gameplay it would have to be that way.

 

[Rhye]

yeah, that's it, more or less.
But a decision can't be taken until we actually try and see (for both Ottomans and Carthago).
Starting with a vassal might be a good idea, but if it's just for 1 city (Tyre) the deal isn't big enough. Better just expanding the flip area to Phoenicia.

 

[McA123]

Better just expanding the flip area to Phoenicia.

That'd work fine.

 

[Prestidigitator]

Better just expanding the flip area to Phoenicia.

Sounds excellent, haven't thought about that before .