News: BOTM 57 Results and Congratulations

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 57: Ice Elation!!!

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/botm57civ.jpg[/img]

I am very pleased with the results. This was a hard game... in fact, I had to keep adding bonuses to the adventurer save just to be able to win it myself. So I knew this one would seperate the really good players from the crowd, and was not disappointed. A lot of losing games were submitted, and that proves we have good sports here, and the really good players still have lots to teach us. Thanks for all the write-ups of your games... it gives me a better idea how this game should be played (and gives me ideas on how to be even more evil next time).

First, here's where everyone settled. Interesting play by cas, winning an unofficial wanderer's merit badge.

Spoiler :

All 3 of you who won a domination victory win a high score medal for your efforts. Mylene wins the Gold by a convincing margin, with the fastest domination victory award as well, where s/he outclassed all the competition by a large margin. sossos takes the silver medal with his excellent play. And bcool gets the bronze, but also gets a cow as consolation for missing top honors. Its not much, I know, but its something.

Diplomatic victory had the most entries, and the honors for fastest diplo goes to zamint3

Tachywaxon submitted the only conquest victory, which is a most impressive feat on this map!

The fastest culture victory goes to deckhand...

Spoiler :

(no, just kidding, it goes to jesusin once again).

...and Conquistador63 beat the other civilizations to Alpha Centauri, which took a great deal of skill.

A big round of applause goes to all the victors, every win is impressive and can be learned from. Please, for the benefit of us mere mortals, share your Immortal BOTM 57strategy descriptions in the spoiler threads if you haven't already done so.




BtS BOTM 57 Results:
Summary of Medal Winners:

Mylene: 1680 AD Domination Victory, 174,969 points.

sossos: 1816 AD Domination Victory, 161,764 points.

bcool: 1864 AD Domination Victory, 128,869 points.


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Fastest Finish Award Winners:

Tachywaxon: 1919 AD Conquest Victory, 68,602 points.

zamint3: 1824 AD Diplomatic Victory, 62,445 points.

jesusin: 1775 AD Cultural Victory, 40,981 points.

Conquistador 63: 1916 AD Spaceship Victory, 36,631 points.


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Other Award Winners:

adrianj: 1870 AD Diplomatic Victory, 35,847 points.

deckhand: 1921 AD Cultural Victory, 25,141 points.

WelshGandalf: 1974 AD Spaceship Victory, 19,099 points.

Jouzou: 1988 AD Spaceship Loss, 6,081 points.

cas: 1948 AD Cultural Loss, 1,244 points.


>> See the full results here.
>> See the updated global rankings here.
>> See the latest Pantheon of Heroes here.
>> Award symbols are listed here.

 

[Mylene]

Told you @Shaka, omg
Thankies again kcd, some of the most funny hoops i went thru on your map.

 

[WelshGandalf]

Yay, I got my shield, as well as being the latest and lowest-scoring victory

ROFL at cas settling position. I'm also amazed at his final score of 692 in 1948AD!!!

 

[neilmeister]

Congrats to all, this was indeed a tough game. You had to actively stop the AI winning peacefully, or just conquer them all of course.

 

[Manco Capac]

Told you @Shaka, omg
Thankies again kcd, some of the most funny hoops i went thru on your map.

Precisions?

 

[Manco Capac]

Wait a minute...I won the conquest medal! Whaaaaat? So much efforts in past games to be beaten relentlessly by the freaks duo and now playing without enthusiasm and I got it. Oh my.

What are evil_spock and Jovan_Kukic doing? This is too much of a coincidence they diverted from the usual dom/conquest. You two, speak up!

Shakabrade, I'm sure you would have a great result if you took the time to finish your game and that is the disappointing factor for me. But RL got you, so I can't blame.

 

[jesusin]

Congratulations to all participants, this wasn't an easy map at all.
I can even understand Cas' strategy of hiding in a corner and surviving to the end, unnoticed.

Please, for the benefit of us mere mortals, share your Immortal BOTM 57strategy descriptions in the spoiler threads if you haven't already done so.

Oh, yes, please all do.

You had to actively stop the AI winning peacefully, or just conquer them all of course.

Really? AIs haven't won before 1900AD, so we had plenty of time to win without bothering too much at what they were doing.

The fastest culture victory goes to deckhand...

Spoiler :

(no, just kidding, it goes to jesusin once again).

You're cruel, man!

 

[Mylene]

I will share more thoughts about my game later, when i go thru my log on results page ~~

 

[evil_spock]

Congratulations to all winners. Shame that cas didn't win, that would have been epic .

What are evil_spock and Jovan_Kukic doing? This is too much of a coincidence they diverted from the usual dom/conquest. You two, speak up!

It's a conspiracy...or I just started too late and didn't have time for any warmongering. If you check Jovan's award list, you'll probably find the reason for his VC (just a hunch). Anyway, that conquest is an awesome one, so , and .

 

[Greeder]

I'm not happy with my result at all (I'm repeating this map, and I'll be repeating it till I win ).
Saying that... what?! 20 out of 37!?! It's almost like a victory
KCD, this definitely was fun!

 

[sossos]

Please, for the benefit of us mere mortals, share your Immortal BOTM 57strategy descriptions in the spoiler threads if you haven't already done so.

OK, maybe I can share something that I still don't know in this game and hope somebody can teach me. I searched for the answer, but I didn't find.

1. I plan for diplomatic victory first because I saw a wonderful diplo victory in BOTM 56. However, I cannot find the 6th civilization. Even when I finally find him, I don't know whether the diplomatic victory is possible. He(Ottoman) is the No.2 but unknown to most AIs. I need to check the save of all diplo winners later.

2. Then I find that both Shaka and Ragnar have enough on hand. What does it mean? Are they gonna fight with each other? I settle on their continent immediately and send 11 knights. However, before I'm ready to attck, Shaka DOW on me and destroys my city with a legion of 30+ units. (His UU is soooo awful) How do you interpret this? Does AI change mind when he has enough on hand? Based on the mechanism, they should lock the target when they start to prepare for war. Right? Or does it mean that Shaka's target is me? Why a nation in another continent is chosen while Shaka and I are not even connected?

3. The last one is a question to the map maker. After I had eliminated Egypt/Maya/Russia, I found that my territory was slightly above 63% while totally occupying the two continents. Is it intentionally designed?

 

[sossos]

Wait a minute...I won the conquest medal! Whaaaaat? So much efforts in past games to be beaten relentlessly by the freaks duo and now playing without enthusiasm and I got it. Oh my.

What are evil_spock and Jovan_Kukic doing? This is too much of a coincidence they diverted from the usual dom/conquest. You two, speak up!

Shakabrade, I'm sure you would have a great result if you took the time to finish your game and that is the disappointing factor for me. But RL got you, so I can't blame.

Congratulation. Would you tell us how many transport ships were used to attack Ottoman, how many Ottoman units were killed and how many Ottoman cities were conquered? (sorry for the offense to Ottoman people)

It's interesting that I haven't seen any posts from Jovan before. Is he actually an AI?

 

[kcd_swede]

3. The last one is a question to the map maker. After I had eliminated Egypt/Maya/Russia, I found that my territory was slightly above 63% while totally occupying the two continents. Is it intentionally designed?

Njaaaa... not really intentional. It was the first random map I called up with the chosen settings. I didn't really modify it much at all... well unless you count all that ice it wasn't modified. But I always check the domination limits of the easily available land just to know what it is and decide whether I want to leave it that way or not. I chose to leave it that way. (Maybe I'm lazy?).

 

[sossos]

Njaaaa... not really intentional. It was the first random map I called up with the chosen settings. I didn't really modify it much at all... well unless you count all that ice it wasn't modified. But I always check the domination limits of the easily available land just to know what it is and decide whether I want to leave it that way or not. I chose to leave it that way. (Maybe I'm lazy?).

Thank you. Maybe it's written into the codes when the map is automatically generated. I just feel it's so weird.

 

[srad]

Congratulations! This was a tough (and interesting) map!

 

[Manco Capac]

OK, maybe I can share something that I still don't know in this game and hope somebody can teach me. I searched for the answer, but I didn't find.

1. I plan for diplomatic victory first because I saw a wonderful diplo victory in BOTM 56. However, I cannot find the 6th civilization. Even when I finally find him, I don't know whether the diplomatic victory is possible. He(Ottoman) is the No.2 but unknown to most AIs. I need to check the save of all diplo winners later.

I'm not sure of the source that time I read long time ago, but don't building the U.N. allows immediate contact. Hmmm...I never tested that because the U.N. is along the Astro path and I certainly make contact each time for a building up my diplo.

2. Then I find that both Shaka and Ragnar have enough on hand. What does it mean? Are they gonna fight with each other? I settle on their continent immediately and send 11 knights. However, before I'm ready to attck, Shaka DOW on me and destroys my city with a legion of 30+ units. (His UU is soooo awful) How do you interpret this? Does AI change mind when he has enough on hand? Based on the mechanism, they should lock the target when they start to prepare for war. Right? Or does it mean that Shaka's target is me? Why a nation in another continent is chosen while Shaka and I are not even connected?

Well, first, the WHEOON mode is always targeted to one civilization and no change of mind happens. Only a wardec on the civ cancels their plans because AI's are coded to avoid multiple fights at once. There are exceptions (e.g. forced war from AP resolution), but mainly it works like that.
Shaka hasn't attack you mainly because kcd_swede crippled the AI badly by blocking all shores with ice, which provoked the AI to mass build their transport navy in wrong cities. I noticed that with the Viking. His only city that could allow an easy access to me (if he intented to wardec me) mass built frigates without a single transport. Transports were stuck elsewere.
The cute thing with oversea invasions is prolonged war preparations. If the AI has no means to get the war started (common when the contact is made early...way earlier than AI accessing to galleons), their WHEOON will remain static until they can target one of your city. Settling on his continent just resumed the WHEOON. Ragnar could have been a logical target if their relationships were bad, but RNG happends to create misfortunes for oversea nations...sometimes. Not it is that bad when their are actually attacking amphibiously compared to the risky situation you created.

About dropped WHEOON, that's another story that I summarized as mainly independant to human or AI intervention except to press a war onto them.
If you are curious about more details, just ask for it.


3. The last one is a question to the map maker. After I had eliminated Egypt/Maya/Russia, I found that my territory was slightly above 63% while totally occupying the two continents. Is it intentionally designed?

Not targeted to me, but I remembered a HoF competition on a hemisphere map where I hoped for a map where my hemisphere had over the lowest domination limit (remember each additional AI added lowers the dom limit for some reason down to 51%). I tried and tried to find the ideal map where Astro was unneeded at all, but it never happened except one particular map whose limit was so near to 51%.
Just like absolute zero temperature, it looks like some cheese are taken out.
Not code supported opinion btw.

Comments in blue.

Congratulation. Would you tell us how many transport ships were used to attack Ottoman, how many Ottoman units were killed and how many Ottoman cities were conquered? (sorry for the offense to Ottoman people)

It's interesting that I haven't seen any posts from Jovan before. Is he actually an AI?

Well, as far I remember, I had quite big armies on his coasts. I think over 50 units and perhaps more of infantries and artilleries along remaining cavalries (lol at sheer difference from Jovan's game. I'll come back to this subject later).
IIRC, I had 7-9 UU I deemed useless to upgrade given the same load capacity and I founded a city on that green hill to ease a fast unload on Mehmed coast.

I conquered and razed lots of city before he bent to my power and had so many successes on my back. I looked through Jovan's game (he is not an AI, but just a very untalkative player) and the sheer differences plucked my eyes.
Not only his late conquest was fast (I supposed he started late to prepare industrial warfare), but the world technological level was extremely lower than mine. Mehmed still had rifles and so the rest of the world around 1850 AD. That's nuts. My game saw infantries early and the world got it a bit fast. Mainly Shaka and Ragnar.

While Jovan was fighting his tanks against Mehmed's cavalries and riflemen, I fighted Mehmed's tanks, marines and infantries (and artillery) with my huge soldier mass of infantries and artillery.
I wondered what happened to create such a difference, but losing liberalism as I did to Mehmed didn't help me.

Lastly, technically speaking, Jovan is the winner of the conquest, but some reason he resumed his game with a U.N. victory. That's weird.

 

[sossos]

@Tachy

Thank you for the long paragraphs. It helped me to be more certain about the reason behind.

1st Q: It seems that no one has ever talked about that before if an expert like you don't know exactly. I think it can be easily tested. I'll check when I got time. <-----tested. Once the United Nation is completed, all civ automatically know each other.

2st Q: I think the only explanation is that their target is me. However, if I had not been connected with them, they would have always been preparing the war. The reasoning can be strengthened by the fact that Ragna prepared for thousands of years without DOW.

3st Q: Yes, I believe HOF players may have more experience on that. It might be a built-in scripts but not readable.

For your question, I think I know what happened between your game and Jovan's. The trick is whether you choose to hamper or encourage the tech trade between AIs.

If I'm gonna build more barriers, I'll check F4 every turn. If the AIs have any chance to trade, I'll do it first. I'll make the tech leader to go faster and the laggard slower.

If I'm gonna encourage AIs to trade, I'll trade to make every one at the same pace.

This is something you can control.

 

[Jovan Kukic]

Well, as far I remember, I had quite big armies on his coasts. I think over 50 units and perhaps more of infantries and artilleries along remaining cavalries (lol at sheer difference from Jovan's game. I'll come back to this subject later).
IIRC, I had 7-9 UU I deemed useless to upgrade given the same load capacity and I founded a city on that green hill to ease a fast unload on Mehmed coast.

I conquered and razed lots of city before he bent to my power and had so many successes on my back. I looked through Jovan's game (he is not an AI, but just a very untalkative player) and the sheer differences plucked my eyes.
Not only his late conquest was fast (I supposed he started late to prepare industrial warfare), but the world technological level was extremely lower than mine. Mehmed still had rifles and so the rest of the world around 1850 AD. That's nuts. My game saw infantries early and the world got it a bit fast. Mainly Shaka and Ragnar.

While Jovan was fighting his tanks against Mehmed's cavalries and riflemen, I fighted Mehmed's tanks, marines and infantries (and artillery) with my huge soldier mass of infantries and artillery.
I wondered what happened to create such a difference, but losing liberalism as I did to Mehmed didn't help me.

In my game Egypt was very advanced and strong. Egypt was also my main tech trading partner, and that made Egyptians even more advanced than other AIs. I used Mayan territory to launch massive attack against Russia, and the rear of their master, Egypt. That made my conquest so fast. My armies reached Mayan territory before war with Egypt. My armies which came later to that continent, were used to capture Thebes, and, little later, some other cities which are closer to my continent.

Lastly, technically speaking, Jovan is the winner of the conquest, but some reason he resumed his game with a U.N. victory. That's weird.

I don't know if random would give me conquest or domination victory (I often had such situations in GOTMs, mostly in BtS).
Evil_spock explained my main reason in some post above. I also noticed that I miss only one award to get eptathlon in BtS, so I supposed this was a good opportunity to get it. I very rarely tried to win diplomatically in BtS. Till this game I wasn't absolutely sure how it works in BtS, although I think that I probably won diplomatically in some of BtS games few years ago, but I can't remember.
Anyway, I failed to get diplomatic award. My diplomacy tools were mostly bullets and bombs. Zamint3 was a better diplomat, so he won faster than me

 

[sossos]

Wow, the last post was in June and this is the 4th post of Jovan YTD. Hurray!

 

[kcd_swede]

Wow, the last post was in June and this is the 4th post of Jovan YTD. Hurray!

Actions speak louder than words.