LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,631
- You can check whether the forest grass is water before you move the settler.
- you can't put nets on your clams until you settle your second city next to the lake tile (which you MUST do).
News: WOTM 10 Pre-Game Discussion
- Thread starter Gyathaar
- Start date
BuddhaBubba
Aspiring Sage
Jenarie
Prince
sorry, what's DoW? i'm assuming it has nothing to do with the Tao Te Ching
I had to ask the same question.
Declaration of War
But when used as DoW it is usually used as a verb to mean declaring war.
mike p
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 705
I'm definitely playing this one, though I haven't done a GoTM in a long time.
I'm going under the assumption that we will be on an island. Since it's got plenty of food but only a couple of hills, I'm going to move 1SW and settle. That will net 3 hammers and one commerce per turn, once the plains hills are mined over settling in place. I need to figure out if I'm better off starting with a worker to get the gems mined, or a workboat to get the fish going. (and whether it's better to start the workboat working the plains hill or using a tile that also provides food.
Note that the fish are just as productive as the freshwater clams once both are netted, but you should net the fish before the clams as the clams will provide 3f2c unimproved, which is better than the fish.
The second city will go NE of the clams. This can capture the gold in the fat cross and allow passage for a workboat into the clams. Assuming it is an island, then I'll build either stonehenge or the pyramids here to take cultural control of the gold, though actually hooking it up may be a problem.
This will also leave room for a third city to the west, which can grab the fish and gems across the straits.
With three cities, a decent navy, and the Pyramids, I'm sure I can win this thing once I get Redcoats, but I'm probably not going to try for an earlier domination. (Though taking one or two coastal cities might be an option with longbowmen, since then you can hold them.) Basically, I'm assuming we get no strategic resources near us at all, so that we need to leverage the Redcoats.
I'm going under the assumption that we will be on an island. Since it's got plenty of food but only a couple of hills, I'm going to move 1SW and settle. That will net 3 hammers and one commerce per turn, once the plains hills are mined over settling in place. I need to figure out if I'm better off starting with a worker to get the gems mined, or a workboat to get the fish going. (and whether it's better to start the workboat working the plains hill or using a tile that also provides food.
Note that the fish are just as productive as the freshwater clams once both are netted, but you should net the fish before the clams as the clams will provide 3f2c unimproved, which is better than the fish.
The second city will go NE of the clams. This can capture the gold in the fat cross and allow passage for a workboat into the clams. Assuming it is an island, then I'll build either stonehenge or the pyramids here to take cultural control of the gold, though actually hooking it up may be a problem.
This will also leave room for a third city to the west, which can grab the fish and gems across the straits.
With three cities, a decent navy, and the Pyramids, I'm sure I can win this thing once I get Redcoats, but I'm probably not going to try for an earlier domination. (Though taking one or two coastal cities might be an option with longbowmen, since then you can hold them.) Basically, I'm assuming we get no strategic resources near us at all, so that we need to leverage the Redcoats.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
1 - i don't need to check, it's clear it's not fresh water.
2 - dammit, you're right! the clams will be half-lost (probably i was tired when i posted)
better settle in place, i didn't think about a city SO close.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I'm betting we find it's not an island, but there is an AI right on the western doorstep that doesn't give us enough room to even get by them. Thus making them dead quickly very important.
Just my guess.
Just my guess.
Ohmygod. I tried a test map and I got myself nicely spanked before the AD years. The AI kept sending wave upon wave of bad guys. DoW'ing (sorry Jenarie) all AI is not clever at all. It's actually madness and I can't imagine I will win this game.
I teched towards Construction and then towards feudalism. Perhaps the reverse path is better.
I teched towards Construction and then towards feudalism. Perhaps the reverse path is better.
Oooh, come on Erkon. You won WOTM03, remember? If you can win that one you can win anything...
budweiser
King of the Beers
I'm betting it will be an island so they wont be able to send masses at you. If you keep up the pop in the capital, build archers and walls then you will be as high on the power graph as can be so they wont go after you. Also keep your borders closed so they cant find out how weak you really are.
lightsedge
Chieftain
If they haven't been founded after I've researched BW and Masonry, then I'll consider it (if I'm going for Oracle).
Very good advice, from my practice game experience. Keep a substantial military, or the warmongers will DoW if they're anywhere near you and have a coastal city, especially if they're friendly with neighbors (ie same religion). You don't want to have to fight naval battles. You will lose half the battles (trireme vs. trireme), and get sea resources pillaged. Don't bet on the sea to keep them away. They won't be able to kill you, but it will be really annoying, especially with AI production advantages.
Diplomacy will frankly get annoying, with so many leaders. Anyone have a good way of figuring who you're going to piss off when you make a deal? Be careful with the open borders, religions, and tech trading. The easy way may be to pick a popular religion and trade exclusively with them.
So basically we need catapults before then...
Good idea, as long as the AI doesn't beat you to the gold. You also need quick border expansion for the second city. And Sailing to mine it.
mike_p: That's an interesting idea. If you're planning to tech up, an extra city should help. Plus two of them will get you some land on the mainland, if you generate enough culture. However, getting a third city to the west before an AI plops one down across the strait may be hard. Although it may not be a problem (and may even turn out to your favor) if you can grow faster culturally.
My new strategy for this map is the whip-seafood-hereditary rule combo. I think you can get to an equilibrium where the unhappy from whipping will correspond to another becoming happy. Then you can pump out units at a good clip and kill everyone!
At least that's the theory.
MarkM
Cow Herder
First, thanks for the pointers to the AI personality stuff (also LowtherCastle & everyone else). Haven't had time to look at it much yet but it looks pretty comprehensive!
I finally got to do a quick run on the island test save (though I was half asleep -- been working > 12 hour days). I did get a mainland city, but only a mediocre location (on the coastal river opening SW of the starting loc in the island test save), and was able to do very little scouting of locations before grabbing it, by the time I popped the settler it was clear the coastal regions nearby were being gobbled up fast. I do think if I could figure out how to accelerate it even a couple turns I could have a much better selection though -- one thing I did was build 2wb in a row (built first then immediately whipped 2nd to make use of slavery on first turn available, reasoning the lost of one pop would be pretty quickly outweighed by the +2 food to throw at the settler build & to fuel future whips), that may have delayed me just enough to lose a lot of options. I'll have to try again & be even more focused. Even in what I did though, I was able to steal an AI civ's first worker & do a fair amount of pillaging of mines built by whatever AI was down there (it was purple ... Asoka? can't remember, like I said, I was half asleep).
I'm glad you've conceded that. When you originally posted that idea and I replied right away asking why, saying it was "interesting" & I must not be experienced enough to understand the reasons for doing that, I was trying to be polite ... privately I thought you were stark raving nuts, in the sesne that you had a death wish or something
With warriors (weak) and archers (no city attack promotion, taking on other archers fortified in cities), having to first have a navy to stage a d-day style invasion, then paying maintenance on them being in enemy land & taking on fortified archers in cities+maybe hills, and the cities probably stuffed because each civ may only get enough room for tow cities -- and then if you raze, another civ would just move into the space ASAP, otherwise to hold you have to leave a trail of defenders, and probably be surrounded by foreign cultural influence sea, at least until you clear a pretty wide swath?!? Ugh! Without a doubt there are much better players here than me, but you'd have to be a true uber player to pull that off! To me it sounds like trying to push back the tide with the palm of your hand ...
Jenarie
Prince
lol I don't mind its use... I just found it really confusing when I started reading the forum.
I figured out Declare War but I couldn't figure out what the O could possibly be and it haunted me until someone was kind enough to expain it to me.
Conquistador 63
Deity
If the regular game seems too easy for you and you're looking for an additional challenge, how about an opposite variant?
Forbid yourself to declare war at all - but if an AI "chooses unwisely" and DoWs on you, then you're free to conquer them to their last city, if you wish. Of course you shouldn't bait them to war by making arrogant demands, but could refuse any tribute requested by them.
I'm sure I've read about a similar "tournament" with those variant rules in this forum or another one, but I honestly don't remember where, as to give their creator the proper credits.
If that makes sense to you or anyone else, I could be tempted to take part in such a challenge.
Cabledawg
King
If the capitol doesnt get the gold in the fat cross, a second city wont. The map is so small, that a city on the mainland will have that gold. You wont get the culture you need to have the gold unless its the capitol. My plan is to settle 2n and still leave room for a southern city. I could care less about the 2 turns lost.
Oddible
signal / noise > 1
Are WOTM 15th - 15th???
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,631
Go Hunting>Archery, post some Archers on W forest hills inside your second city to get their faster promotions and build the Great Wall and rack up GG points at 2x speed when the AIs attack (assuming land bridge...). THen you upgrade to super defenders when you Oracle to Feudalism.
AU_Armageddon
Cenobyte
My vote is for 'first strike sucks'
Seriously, I've never understood the point of drill, and I've almost never used it. I can't offhand think of any situation where you might give a unit drill, where you wouldn't get better results by giving it +10% strength. Often wondered if I'm missing something but can't see what.
Has it's uses, moreso in multiplayer. For example, compare a fortified a triple city defence longbow on a hill city vs one with one city defence and triple drill (as is easy with a 'Protective' civ). Attack them with 25 standard catapults each. The city defence bow will probably take 2-3 catapults out before it goes down. The triple drill longbow will probably kill most of them. I've actually seen them kill all, unscathed at the end.
JungleIII
Master
It's here at http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/index.php?month=60010
Now we will know - island or???
Now we will know - island or???
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