Next patch speculation thread

oh, my - I was hoping to find new information about the patch but once again this thread got highjacked by some guys just stating that either
a) another game / company / iteration is better (vox populi 4eva - go play it, will you?! )
b) everything is so so bad - I cannot enjoy the game (I can - Who is doing something wrong here?)
c) The PR team...



Anything new on the actual topic of this thread?

P.S.: Call me a fanboy if you like - back to topic?

 

Nothing to see along the path, hence the wandering off, I suppose.

 

Okay then..
Thread title == Next patch speculation thread

I'll give you some very recent perspective.

-- I could always RE-speculate on a number of personal issues with various gameplay situations.. but i certainly won't (have to) repeat what i've already shared in previous pages.
-- At the moment, it's Friday late evening overhere.. almost nobody formally works during week-ends even at Firaxis.
-- Monday is a US holiday.. meaning they also probably wont show up there until next Tuesday at best.
-- Enjoy the chatty CFC forums over the next four days anyway.

Please!

 

@Eagle Pursuit - Please share your prognostication taking into account the Friday update!

 

From what i read on last few pages. Another recent 2kqa_a update will probably mean more delay. At least destroying hopes on an early tuesday patch.
As monday is a holiday in US. And usually nothing happens on the first workday of the week with firaxis. I think i could safely say the chance of anything released before wednesday next week is about zero.

In other words. This tread is probably going to derail from the subject as there will be no patch update besides steam depots on civfanatics. And you could safely start up another game of civ 6 or finish what you have started for the next 4-5 days.

 

Preface: I don't have Gathering Storm but I do have Rise and Fall.
I'm currently playing a game and notice that pillaging no longer gives science/culture, which I understand, as that was part of the update from the last patch. BUT, Norway's ability wasn't updated to still get the science/culture boost, which I'm assuming is because I don't have Gathering Storm. But why? They still added the pillaging nerf - which also nerfed Norway - to all versions of the game, but only buffed Norway accordingly in Gathering Storm, even though Norway still suffers in non-GS games? Why would they only balance that out in GS and not in all versions?

Now, my new concern is that game balance will be neglected in future patches for players who don't own all the expansions.

Might we see an improvement in this matter in the next patch?

 

In general, they don't seem to change civs for previous versions of the game. So, they probably won't change Norway. I'm actually somewhat surprised that they changed pillaging for R&F.

 

I think Norway are... Okay now.

I've played them a little since the patch. I'm not a huge fan of the culture and science from Pillaging thematically. But it does play well, it synergises with their abilities andbit does make them different and interesting. What they really need - along with a bunch of other Civs - is for coastal cities to get buffed.

You know, I think maybe Norway and England are the wrong way round. I feel like Norway should be getting the free Melee units (maybe when they settle on the coast), not England. I've been playing England a little lately, and that one free Melee unit when you settle on another continent just feels daffy. And the free naval unit when you build a harbour ... I don't know, I kind of want to build the naval units myself. Its more rewarding that way and easier to control what you get.

Actually. Norway needs one buff urgently. Beserkers need to get their movement bonus at sea as well as in enemy territory...

And the Stave church is still a bit of a mess. I've no idea what it should do. But what it does at the moment is... not fun.

 

Yeah, I just finished a game as Norway and I thought they were a lot of fun. You can get a LOT of science and culture through pillaging, especially early on. That's a really cool ability IMO.

The Stave Church is pretty bad I agree, and I wasn't impressed with berserkers at all (though I didn't beeline them as well as I probably should've).

 

When discussing for example Norway and England, many think they are too weak, but dont take account that they are some of the most fun civs to play.

With so many civs and leaders in the game, it's not that possible to make them super balanced like example StarCraft that had just 3 factions..
I mean cmon, with England you pop out colonies all over the map, protect them with redcoats that fight better abroad and create an impressive navy with RN Dockyard and harass enemy shipments with sea dogs.. It's not as powerful as Korea's science or Sumeria's donkey cart rush but it doesnt need to be.

I actually think that developers should keep their own design visions and not bow down to fans. like how city-states were given automatic walls in higher diff levels.
If people care about maintaining city-states they should protect them or conquer them back...

 

Perhaps, but there's hardly a reason not to at least try, especially because a "weak civ" typically means that some mechanics related to that civ are also weak and should be looked at for the good of everyone.

I'm not sure how you're objectively quantifying "fun", but personally I see England as a civ that basically has no bonuses except the RNDY. Which means I'd just play Phoenicia in any situation where I wanted to use them. That, to me, doesn't strike me as a "fun" civilization, but you do you I guess. I'd be more inclined to agree if they at least had the British Museum since that at least tethered them to some vaguely interesting hoarding system but haHA that's gone too.

Norway at least has a reason to exist now I guess, I'll grant that much.

If I agree with this, will England return to the original design vision they had when the game released? Because the developers keep changing their own vision of England to something that is totally parallel to any of the problems people have with them, and in the process they keep getting worse and worse.

The England we have now is neither "the original design vision" nor "what the fans asked for", it's just a pointless mess with less reason to exist than Georgia. Which is sort of like the Khmer now in that it at least has a way to approach the game and yield "fun" from it, it just doesn't work particularly well as a strategy.

 

Is England really a pointless mess?

FXS's vision for England has clearly changed, but I think WotW and RND actually work pretty well together both thematically and mechanically. An empire of iron and coal, and lots of hammers to boot.

The real problem is that these abilities basically play Civ VI bingo with all the mechanics that don't current gel - IZ and IZ buildings, Tier 3 buildings, Power, Military Engineers, Coastal Cities and Colonial Cities. If England had a unique wall, Seige unit and Anti-Cav unit then they'd have all the bad mechanics covered in one Civ.

So, WotW and RND seem fine to me. It's not England that's broken - it's the game itself.

What about the other abilities?

I go backwards on forwards with Pax B. The trade routes are awesome, and again synergise with RNDs and WotW. The free Melee unit is silly, but whatever. The free naval units are... Well. I don't know. Free units are free units. And it does give England a big Navy fast (potentially). But it also feels kinda ...lame. I think I'd rather build my own units.

Sea Dog is still lame. Capturing more units, when you already get free units, and your captured units don't get your +1 movement bonus, just feels ... wrong. If RND gave its movement bonus to units built or upgraded in your RND, and they got rid of the free naval units from the RND, I think the Sea Dog would make more sense and be more important to England.

I'm really hopeful the next patch will tackle some of these hard to get right mechanics like colonial cities. Not just so England is more fun - but so lots of other edge case Civs are more fun, and maybe the entire game is more fun...

Guess we'll find out soon...

 

I actually like the Stave Church. It's obviously not worth to build it just for +1 hammer on sea resources, but what a faith economy you get. Very easy to get +3 adjacency for the Simultanum policy, especially after Conservation civic. Promote Moksha and you can faith buy your infrastructure in coastal cities.

 

Looking at the steamdb changes what are these "store tag" changes?

 

They are categories that Firaxis assigned to Civ. If you were to be searching the Steam store for those genres, Civ would appear. I'm not entirely certain what the point is of rearranging the categories, but they do it sometimes. I suspect it bumps Civ up to the top of the list when searched, but that's speculation.

 

The thing I'm most excited about with the next patch is knowing whether I'm going to be playing Civ for the next six months or not.

There are so many threads at the moment that either ask "is Civ finally good?" or discuss "this feature doesn't work, and here's why!." For my part, I think the game is in great shape and is going in the right direction... but somehow still hasn't ticked the right boxes for me.

I think that's because, while I like the early game, what I really want is a strong colonial game in the mid game and then some serious industrial stuff after that. The game just ain't there on either front. Indeed, while I think the colonial bit (and coastal cities) could get there with a good patch, I wonder if the late game industrial bit will require a third expansion because it probably needs Ideology and (slightly) more economy / trade / finance mechanics to pull it all together.

I really dont get the posts here which sometimes assert that the game is fundamentally broken (often specifically pointing at the AI) or that FXS are horrible or lazy or money hungry people that don't care about player experience (how anyone could watch Ed, Anton, Sarah and Carl on a livestream and think that is beyond me).

But I think Civ does suffer from being a very complex game, if only because it's made of so many different systems and mechanics, and at the same time a game where great player experiences often hinge on getting the numbers and flavour just right. Getting everything right is ultimately an interative process - an art not a science - and so it's taking forever particularly when FXS are still introducing mechanics (and perhaps necessarily so, because some "issues" are better resolved by more nuanced mechanics rather than blunt tweaking - eg loyalty is a much better way of dealing with forward settling compared to just nerfing the AI's agression). I don't know if FXS alone can get the game to reach it's potential - it may ultimately require significant input from Modders eg AI - or, if FXS (or FXS and Modders) can reach the full potential, how long that may take (if it needs another expansion, that means basically another 12 to 18 months with patches).

My expectations for the game have probably grown as well. Maybe that's not fair to FXS. But it is how I feel.

So. In summary:

I'm very eager to see the next patch. There is a lot I think needs work. I don't know if the next patch can sort everything out. Maybe it's too much for one patch, although the previous few patches have been huge so maybe this will be the same and FXS will nail it (or nail it enough for me). Either way, we'll know very shortly.

If the next patch really sorts the game out, I'll play flat out to the next expansion (subject to work, life etc). If not... well, okay. No hard feelings. But I think I'll probably put this game down and just wait for another expansion and or some good mods ... or just mod it myself. Or just ... you know, move on.

 

As long as this - Screen freezes/stutters when you select idle builders in late game - is properly fixed as per Dennis,

I will be ecstatic. This affects two of my subbed Steam mods and one of my personal ones, so I couldn't care less what else is in the patch as long as this fix is part of it.

 

@Eagle Pursuit Oh great sage, equal of heaven. Any chance of a video today? If so, what time?

 

My theory, not based on steam updates or anything like that, is that the crew will stagger in late because of the long weekend and won't have anything public planned for today. Maybe I'm projecting but I had to be here EARLY and was in no mood to do anything with the public.