Night of long knives backfires

RedRalph

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The SA gets tipped off, the attack go ahead as IRL but instead of being caught in bed with rent boys, etc, the SA are waiting for the attack and kill most of the party leadership, including Hitler. What happens next? Would the army take over? Would the SA tear the country apart?
 
Rohm did't have the balls or any reason to take out Hitler.

'The night of the long knives' was planned by Himmler and Goering. The SA never knew what him them.
 
Rohm did't have the balls or any reason to take out Hitler.

'The night of the long knives' was planned by Himmler and Goering. The SA never knew what him them.

I know, thats why I'm asking what would have happened if they had found out and counter attacked
 
The SA could have done nothing. They were a bunch of overweight bullyboys and thugs, half of whom were socialist.
The well trained and efficient Wermacht would have destroed them in any case.
 
The SA could have done nothing. They were a bunch of overweight bullyboys and thugs, half of whom were socialist.
The well trained and efficient Wermacht would have destroed them in any case.

but would they have gone ahead with that if the SA had killed off senior party members before TNOTLK had gone ahead? Remember, Hitler carried it out because he basically had to pick between the army and SA, they wer eno fans of his and were still pretty unpopular in Germany... actually I susopect this may have led to a long and bloody civil war
 
The SA could have done nothing. They were a bunch of overweight bullyboys and thugs, half of whom were socialist.

Hmmm ... depends on how you define "socialist". They certainly weren't lefties. The SA emerged immediately after the Freikorps were disbanded, and were mostly composed of ex-Freikorps. Their ideology was basically the same: they believed in the Dolchstoßlegende, that Germany had lost WW1 because they had been betrayed by the November Revolution parties who were (according to Freikorps beliefs) led by Marxist Jews.

Freikorps had been formed by the old Reich to combat groups like the Spartacists, after an incident when Wehrmacht units refused to fire on a crowd of communist protestors which included women and children. The idea of the Freikorps was to form paramilitaries with radical right-wing ideologies who could be counted on to attack revolutionary elements.

After the revolution, the new Weimar Republic had no use for them and started disbanding them. This caused the Kapp Putsch, which failed, and was followed by the wholesale disbanding of all Freikorps unit. A few months later the SA was born.

This element was only socialist in the sense that they wanted government to step in and liquidate foreign and Jewish businesses and do a few other things like increase public spending for the military, clamp down on business that went against conservative values (ie cabaret, swing, and jazz clubs), and so on.

The well trained and efficient Wermacht would have destroed them in any case.

Not so sure. Using the Wehrmacht against Germans was problematic during this era, regardless of whether the targets were left or right wing and regardless of the political administration. The Kaiser, the Weimar Republic, and even Hitler all experienced problems trying to do this. That's why the SS was used to round up the SA, not the Wehrmacht.

Not that there was any love lost between the SA and the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht, led by Prussian aristocracy, despised the SA as a loud-mouthed, degenerate mob which threatened peace and order, and they were disgusted with the notion of having to incorporate the SA into the army (which the SA loudly demanded, regularly). The SA despised the Wehrmacht, feeling they were too liberal and not committed to Nazi ideology. Nevertheless, the Wehrmacht was not sufficiently antipathetic towards the SA to overcome their distaste for killing Germans.


Had the Night of Long Knives failed, and the Nazi leadership destroyed, the far right in Germany would have been in disarray. The KPD would probably re-emerge and seize power, and undoubtedly Ernst Thalmann would have been released, Pieck and Ulbricht would return from exile, and the German state would fall in line with Stalin.
 
Hmmm ... depends on how you define "socialist". They certainly weren't lefties. The SA emerged immediately after the Freikorps were disbanded, and were mostly composed of ex-Freikorps. Their ideology was basically the same: they believed in the Dolchstoßlegende, that Germany had lost WW1 because they had been betrayed by the November Revolution parties who were (according to Freikorps beliefs) led by Marxist Jews.

Roehm and certain other leading SA members had been leaning very left for some time, and were openly advocating a more socialist line, a "revolution from the bottom", which is one of the major reasons that they were purged.
In fact, the Nazis had a special word for those members of the SA:
"Hamburger Nazis"; brown on the outsde, red on the inside.

Not so sure. Using the Wehrmacht against Germans was problematic during this era, regardless of whether the targets were left or right wing and regardless of the political administration. The Kaiser, the Weimar Republic, and even Hitler all experienced problems trying to do this. That's why the SS was used to round up the SA, not the Wehrmacht.
But the army was explicitly involved, which is the sheer strategic beauty of the Nacht der Langer Messer; from that day on, the army could no longer feign political ignorance or distance, they were an integral part of the Nazi state.
And they wern't exactly disappointed about it either, since msot of them were ex-WWI oldiers and at least sympathetic to fascism, the carried out their task with efficiency and no moral qualms.
 
Roehm and certain other leading SA members had been leaning very left for some time, and were openly advocating a more socialist line, a "revolution from the bottom", which is one of the major reasons that they were purged.

Populism and socialism are not synonyms.

In fact, the Nazis had a special word for those members of the SA:
"Hamburger Nazis"; brown on the outsde, red on the inside.

Odd; the only hit I got on a Google search was this thread and one other post on here by you, and some stuff around the net about bad restaurants alluding to a Seinfeld episode that featured a Soup Nazi.

But the army was explicitly involved

Not greatly, and certainly not in very much of the actual killing. The vast majority of those actions were carried out by the SS. For the most part, the Wehrmacht just turned a blind eye.
 
The SA could have done nothing. They were a bunch of overweight bullyboys and thugs, half of whom were socialist.
The well trained and efficient Wermacht would have destroed them in any case.

In 1935? The Wehrmacht was never fully Nazified, much less so that early on. And I don't see why their politics have much bearing here.
 
Apparently I was the only one who thought Afghanistan in 1841 when I read the title. >_>
 
In 1935? The Wehrmacht was never fully Nazified, much less so that early on. And I don't see why their politics have much bearing here.

True, they were never fully Nazified but having Keitel as head of OKW was the next best thing. The army did whatever Hitler told them to, from planning and starting wars to handing over Jews and commissars to the SS.
 
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