NiGHTS: General Discussion

[V. Soma]

Also, as you remember, he disabled upgrading of units completely. This together with slow healing (1/turn everywhere, even in cities. Medic promotion removed aswell) meant you had to keep building new units, and that existing old units that had gotten good promotions could still be useful, but not overpowered like they usually get in vanilla (and Nights) since players can keep their units alive, but AI often doesn't.

Yes, it is important.

Uh, I have an idea, especially if this PWM unit rule is to be used:

What if disbanding a unit would add some hammer to the "building" of any military unit that is going on?

AND

In general:
What if building a unit would result a loss of a certain chunk of food in the city where the unit is made?
It could (but not necessairily) mean pop loss, if so...

 

[kirbz]

(...)my capital didnt become the Origin city of the revolution (is this random?), but my second city did, which was a city with horrible production.

Was wondering two things myself; 1) how do you know beforehand in which of your cities the cultural revolution will take place and 2) can you direct this somehow? (would be nice if it would always pick your capital tbh).

 

[looorg]

What if disbanding a unit would add some hammer to the "building" of any military unit that is going on?

You get a bit of gold when you sell/disband a worker already so I'm sure it could be done. On that note I would rather see that you could use spare workers and settlers to merge into cities again. After awhile I'm usually overrun with workers that just stand around and well 50g isn't much to write home about really.

Removing insta-heal though, that's a definate possibility. What do other people think about this?

The main drawback to this is probably the AI. They seem to use that quite a bit and having have 20 hp instead just mean they are going to stand around being stupid for a bit longer or possibly the same since 10+instaheal+10 should be about roughly the same.

They might become to good then for taking cities etc if you keep taking the same dmg from that and cities in nights now already have fairly weak defences.

That said I wouldn't mind 20hp units. But there are a bunch of buildings that increase healing levels etc and I wouldn't want to loose those bonuses.

On a sidenote how often does it happen to you guys another civ's settlers beats your to build a city on the perfect spot by 1 turn?

Almost never. You send units to "secure" the location before and if something that looks like a settler comes along it's war.

 

[DocBuchanan]

Does anybody know a trick that would allow my wife and I to play this mod hotseat?

 

[markusbeutel]

Hi Mark--just wanted to chime in with my latest game in 9b. Iam not sure what info is helpful in giving feedback. Played Nappy on continents. Riam out early leading with resources, gold especially and conquering. I trialed.
I decided to go for globalization win. Bottom line on turn 326 Riam had 90K in gold (1031 per turn)
On my end i had 20K gold (315 gpt) with some from selling a few buildings. This should have been a slam dunk for Riam. So I made as many allies as i could one turn before last vote reversing some of Riam's allies. Riam never responded to one up me before his last chance and lost when he was clearly dominant.
Is this a glitch? exploit? etc. Just wanted to throw this in the refinement process. The AI does not seem to quickly respond to the UN end game and max his buying votes making him thw winner.

I've raised all the AI's likelihood of buying up City-States- the problem is that if the AI decides to go for a victory type apart from the UN, it won't bother - even if it's financially capable.

As for gold, I'll include a balance pass along with the update to Governments for this weekend's release.

Yes, it is important.

Uh, I have an idea, especially if this PWM unit rule is to be used:

What if disbanding a unit would add some hammer to the "building" of any military unit that is going on?

AND

In general:
What if building a unit would result a loss of a certain chunk of food in the city where the unit is made?
It could (but not necessairily) mean pop loss, if so...

I'll download that mod and see how he did some of these things / how they work in a game of NiGHTS.

Was wondering two things myself; 1) how do you know beforehand in which of your cities the cultural revolution will take place and 2) can you direct this somehow? (would be nice if it would always pick your capital tbh).

It's more or less random - but the City does need to at least have the population of the average population in one of your cities. I could make it happen just in the capital, but this could have some overpowering results.

Does anybody know a trick that would allow my wife and I to play this mod hotseat?

Are mods playable in hotseat? I haven't tried or looked into this at all.

 

[Royco]

Damn.for some reason my game CTDs when trying to start a new one with v9.7

 

[markusbeutel]

Damn.for some reason my game CTDs when trying to start a new one with v9.7

Did you follow the install instructions? In order to get this uploaded to the ModBrowser I had to give the mod a new ID - so any hint of the previous version will cause crashes.

 

[Royco]

Did you follow the install instructions? In order to get this uploaded to the ModBrowser I had to give the mod a new ID - so any hint of the previous version will cause crashes.

Ok ive been trying stuff out.

Installed from modbrowser

Use napoleon

cont plus

12 ai - 18 CS

resources spare, high sea

no ruins, raging barbs

THIS DO NOT WORK!

But I got it to work on any other map. Even smaller cont plus maps

edit: ehm no not standard either...jeez this was annoying. I have to just try and isolate it.

But can you give those settings a go?

Edit: Damn it, seem to be the game itself, maybe som gfx setting, tried a unmodded game same settings, CTD. WTF

 

[markusbeutel]

Ok ive been trying stuff out.

Installed from modbrowser

Use napoleon

cont plus

12 ai - 18 CS

resources spare, high sea

no ruins, raging barbs

THIS DO NOT WORK!

But I got it to work on any other map. Even smaller cont plus maps

edit: ehm no not standard either...jeez this was annoying. I have to just try and isolate it.

But can you give those settings a go?

Edit: Damn it, seem to be the game itself, maybe som gfx setting, tried a unmodded game same settings, CTD. WTF

That sucks - but you did have me worried for a moment there. Try manually deleting the cache/contents of ModUserData folder - then verify your cache and defrag through steam.

Hopefully you don't have to do a cean install

 

[Royco]

Ye im verifying files now. This better work

Problems seem to start after deleting the moduserdata folder completely. wasnt like this yeasterday.

EDIT: One file couldnt be validated and will be downloaded again.

 

[christos200]

Can i play this mod with a TSL earth map?

 

[markusbeutel]

Can i play this mod with a TSL earth map?

I'm not sure - you'd have to test this out and give it a try. Resource/terrain placement has been altered a bit in NiGHTS, so if a tsl map doesn't work - that'll be why.

 

[Wallabulla]

Great mod, it's ruining my sleep...

I'm sure this has been up before.
But there is one thing I personally don't like about this mod, and that is the fact that you change capital when building a national wonder.

 

[Lilpenny]

Quick question and sorry if you have answered it already but was there a reason to leave Research Agreements in the game? It feels to me like such a slingshot mechanic. If you have already answered the question lemme know where and I can read it there. Have kept tabs on Nights since the first version you put out and by far this is an amazing rework of the game and MUCH more playable/enjoyable!

The IA players are still a bit spammy on just horrible towns on occasion but I doubt there is anything you can do about it.

but yeah thanks for the great mod keep up the good work! v9 WAS worth the wait!

 

[Demege]

I just finished two games, one in 9,6 one in 9.7 and i have to say I really enjoyed both.

Both where pangea, epic, emperor and I won both by domination on the same turn 400
Propably could have won earlier but my playstyle is that i like to build a lot of cultural wonders / buildings to take advantage of policies.

After the changes in the tech tree, the overall feel of tech pace is great . Every era has it's own timeframe for units and nothing feels rushed.

First game was with Siam, i had a great capital location with 2 stone and 2 iron, so it was a production powerhouse with all the buildings that boost stone and iron production, i ended with over 300 production without the modern buldings. The +1 culture trait is really great with the free worker from conscription policy in honor tree , worker on turn 18 (epic). I feel that with the additional +15% production for military units, it is a bit overpowerd thou. With such a great capital the game was straight forward.

Second game with Ottomans on the other hand i had a very low production capital with only 2 lexury and in that game i noticed how painful is that the cost of units goes up with each next one.
I think that it should be capped at some value, becouse 6th rifleman cost 2000 prod. which is the same as most wonders i think It could get more expensive to upgrade and buy, but hardbuilding units should be so that, with a decent production city You can build them in a resonable timeframe (10 turns lets say)

Overall great progress in every aspect form the previous versions

Now i have a couple of questions / suggestions.

The feudalism govermant has +200% worker tile improvement speed. Is this a typo from +20% ? or it is intended. i ask becouse If You get the first wonder amd choose it, workers build roads in 1 turn and improvements in 2-3 so You can improve every tile within the 30 turns of goverment which gives You a huge advantage.

Museum needs to be built near or on the desert? Why? What if you play a map without deserts, then You also cannot build the broadcast tower.

I don't know if the pikeman should be in ballistics tech, which requiers the seafaring tech line. This way it is kind of the way, especially on pangea type maps where You research the water techs only if You have to. In my second game i actually at one point needed pikes, becouse the ai had lancers early, only too find that i have to reaserch 5 techs too get them.

Toomorow i'll propably play one more game couse i got really hooked up, and since i'm on vacations, i have a lot of spare time in the morning


Edit: Forgot to attach the savegames

 

[TDawg3]

I tried loading it but got the runtime error and ctd - did you follow the complete install instructions when installing 9.6b? Any autosaves?

It's always annoying when you lose a game - I'm still not sure what could be causing these crashes. Hopefully after I release 9.7 they'll stop cropping up.

Yeah, it was a completely clean install; that's ok, I'll try 9.7 now anyway.

 

[markusbeutel]

Great mod, it's ruining my sleep...

I'm sure this has been up before.
But there is one thing I personally don't like about this mod, and that is the fact that you change capital when building a national wonder.

I'll be changing this in the weekend update. Only one of the National Wonders will allow you to move your capital, (but I haven't decided yet which one).

And sleep is overrated as long as you eat something.

Quick question and sorry if you have answered it already but was there a reason to leave Research Agreements in the game? It feels to me like such a slingshot mechanic. If you have already answered the question lemme know where and I can read it there. Have kept tabs on Nights since the first version you put out and by far this is an amazing rework of the game and MUCH more playable/enjoyable!

The IA players are still a bit spammy on just horrible towns on occasion but I doubt there is anything you can do about it.

but yeah thanks for the great mod keep up the good work! v9 WAS worth the wait!

Thanks Lilpenny - glad you're enjoying it. As for Research Agreements - they had been previously removed, but now that they don't outright grant free tech's, they were reincluded. It's not as much of a detriment in this version, as the amount of additional tech's means that slingshots in the traditional vanilla sense, (where paths are fairly linear), don't apply as readily.

The AI still places it's settlements in obscure places sometimes - and I've increased the rate at which they expand so it might seem like they're picking even worse spots, but they're merely settling at a faster pace. The trade-off was that I lessoned the likelihood of them spamming early wars, so instead, they focus on expanding/settling - which puts them in a much better position for the rest of the game.

I just finished two games, one in 9,6 one in 9.7 and i have to say I really enjoyed both.

Both where pangea, epic, emperor and I won both by domination on the same turn 400
Propably could have won earlier but my playstyle is that i like to build a lot of cultural wonders / buildings to take advantage of policies.

After the changes in the tech tree, the overall feel of tech pace is great . Every era has it's own timeframe for units and nothing feels rushed.

First game was with Siam, i had a great capital location with 2 stone and 2 iron, so it was a production powerhouse with all the buildings that boost stone and iron production, i ended with over 300 production without the modern buldings. The +1 culture trait is really great with the free worker from conscription policy in honor tree , worker on turn 18 (epic). I feel that with the additional +15% production for military units, it is a bit overpowerd thou. With such a great capital the game was straight forward.

Second game with Ottomans on the other hand i had a very low production capital with only 2 lexury and in that game i noticed how painful is that the cost of units goes up with each next one.
I think that it should be capped at some value, becouse 6th rifleman cost 2000 prod. which is the same as most wonders i think It could get more expensive to upgrade and buy, but hardbuilding units should be so that, with a decent production city You can build them in a resonable timeframe (10 turns lets say)

Overall great progress in every aspect form the previous versions

Now i have a couple of questions / suggestions.

The feudalism govermant has +200% worker tile improvement speed. Is this a typo from +20% ? or it is intended. i ask becouse If You get the first wonder amd choose it, workers build roads in 1 turn and improvements in 2-3 so You can improve every tile within the 30 turns of goverment which gives You a huge advantage.

Museum needs to be built near or on the desert? Why? What if you play a map without deserts, then You also cannot build the broadcast tower.

I don't know if the pikeman should be in ballistics tech, which requiers the seafaring tech line. This way it is kind of the way, especially on pangea type maps where You research the water techs only if You have to. In my second game i actually at one point needed pikes, becouse the ai had lancers early, only too find that i have to reaserch 5 techs too get them.

Toomorow i'll propably play one more game couse i got really hooked up, and since i'm on vacations, i have a lot of spare time in the morning


Edit: Forgot to attach the savegames

Pretty much all of the Governments are getting an overhaul this weekend, (and no, that wasn't a typo). After releasing the mod I focused on tweaking/balancing the tech tree at first after feedback, and now I'll start working on the Governments.

Good point about playing maps w/o deserts. I think the Museum might have retained it's prereqs from earlier versions of the mod, (where I put terrain restrictions on numerous buildings). This was mainly to keep the amount of buildings/units in the build queue to a respectable level, because if every thing was immediately available w/o restrictions - the queue could get a little bit overwhelming. Having said that, I'll have a look and see if there's something more logical to have as a prereq for that particular building.

Good point about Pikemen as well. I think it was in v9.6 that I altered the Tech Tree quite a bit to extend era's for units - and Pikemen had to be moved up the Tree as they were becoming available much too early. I'll see if I can come up with better tech-placement for them - seeing as crossbowman are already unlocked with that particular Tech.

Enjoy your vacation!

Yeah, it was a completely clean install; that's ok, I'll try 9.7 now anyway.

I haven't had any reports of major crashes yet with 9.7, so hopefully everything's back to normal.

 

[Karantaner]

I have a problem with 9.6b - I can not build a spearman. I researched the tech but no spearman shows up in the building list. quite strange. But I could build the pikeman after I researched the tech for ti. I followed the install instructions as usual. But as nobody reported this so far with 9.7 I think it is now alright again...

 

[bigstuff777]

how come at least one national wonder needs to move the capital???

most NW's are rendered use less to much for to lil. And to much you have to get to have this makes it a chore, that i am never willing to bother with......I mean who the hell builds a barracks in every city ???? normally i have one city some times 2 pumping out units never any more then that. my capital is really the only city other then city's 15 + i never build library's unless there is nothing els .

My point is these NW I never can use cause there req are all ways soo much a chore to bother with and maintenance on the buildings that it req such as a (barracks) is to great. in civup they had a good why to make it less a chore to get was like 75% of city's or 50% of city's need a specific building. then the AI may build NW's but i am pretty sure the way they expand and build stupid city's in places that has crap for production ... i do not think AI ever builds NW's

I still cant figure out why any one would want to change there capital unless you got a rely rely bad start point. any how why not make a building that can let any city be built into the capital?

Since your better off just building lots of wonders now that there are tones to build. for the last 5 games i have played nights and each time i have got way to many wonders i do not see any difference in how much they build them and the funny thing is im playing on a large map immortal with 14 civs sooo out of 14 civs i still get 80% of the wonders. i would think with more civs there would be more competition but nope.

One thing that may be effecting my tests is the victory conditions.. i all ways tern them all off and do domination only..im unsure if this is why they do not bother with wonders as much ...

I do not know maybe the industrious trait and the piety tree + marble gives a unfair advantage...

If there is to be so many wonders maybe there should be a city limit for amount of wonders that 1 city can build. or maybe by era you can have 1 or 2 wonders per era.
or each city can have only 2 wonders per era.

how come deer is not on the list for extra production from the stables building..if sheep do then how come not deer?

 

[balir49]

Cool updates you got. Cheers

Comment on the above wonder issue: On Emperor diffuculty, 18 civ, all victory condition on, the AI always outbuilds me in terms of wonder. I get 1 or 2 here and there though.

Here are my opinions on your recent mod version.

I also think that moving the capital when a NW is built to be uneccessary.

Can you please confirm whether the tradition 20% increase in border expansion is working. Need 30+ turns on one of my game for a third cultural border plot.
Save file below.
Eidt: Did another game, seems I got used to the fast expansion rate of Egypt on vanilla civ. No need to worry, the tradition 20% thingy works

There is another tiny bit thing. The ruins sometimes doesn't say what you get. (most of the time, it happens when you get gold). I ignored it for quite a while since it is only a minor issue.

On the advance set up, the eras have black font colour.

View attachment Tradition unsure.Civ5Save