NiGHTS: General Discussion

[Zyxpsilon]

Yeah... here's the whole full folder name;

C:\bla_bla_bla\\[COLOR_PLAYER_BLUE_TEXT]NiGHTS OF CIVILIZATION[ENDCOLOR] (v 7)

 

[markusbeutel]

I'll be releasing a minor update sometime over the next few days that will deal with balancing various aspects of the game since the release of V7. Mainly, this will include moving Specialists around so there's more or less an equal amount of each type spread evenly over tech tiers.

Also, with decreases in the amount of Unrest accrued by your Military and Governments, Stability is going to match how Science works a little more closely. In the next update your Capital's citizens will contribute +1 towards Stability while in all of your other cities each citizen will only contribute +0.5. I don't want to raise the cost of Military Units because once I add a future era to the tech pyramid the Unrest costs for advanced units would be too extreme.

 

[Serga]

Grain plantation is still invisible.

 

[markusbeutel]

Grain plantation is still invisible.

It is . I don't know how to solve this currently as I can't find any errors in my code. I've even tried changing the graphic to a plantation from a farm and vice versa, but for some reason when building a new improvement on the grain resource, the graphic either disappears, or just leaves the grain in place without a visual cue of the worked terrain. I'll keep trying to figure this out.

Also - a brief update on how Governments are going to be changing in upcoming releases. Currently each Government has roughly 6-9 sub-policies. This means that you can never really remain with one form of Government for the whole game - you basically have to change Governments when you've maxed one of them out. This will change in coming updates - possibly in V8 on Monday at the earliest. The number of Governments will be reduced to 7, and each government will begin as an ideology of sorts that builds and leads up to it's eventual politically correct Government name. You will only be required to complete 1-2 of these new Governments and each Government will be comprised of roughly 30 policies. I've has some UI breakthroughs lately so I'm confident I can make this new system happen, but I could still run into problems over the next few days that may derail my current plans. In either case, Governments are a changing.

 

[Serga]

Also I dont understand the logic why I cant build trading posts on grassland terrain...

 

[markusbeutel]

Also I dont understand the logic why I cant build trading posts on grassland terrain...

Trading posts were basically overpowered in Vanilla Civ V - the dev's ended up fixing this by reducing their gold output by one. I took them in a different direction and have them only buildable on Plains, but still retaining their full gold output. It's a trade-off I guess.

If you want to change this, you'll need to delete:


<Improvement_ValidTerrains>
<Update>
<Where ImprovementType="IMPROVEMENT_TRADING_POST"/>
<Set TerrainType="TERRAIN_PLAINS"/>
</Update>
</Improvement_ValidTerrains>


:from the Rules_1.xml file.

 

[lindanealmck]

Excellent mod - just finished a game in version 6, can't wait to try to version 7.
The only crash I experience over many hours of play, was when I dropped a nuke.

 

[ComradeKristov]

Playing V7 and I ran into a little problem, you obsolete things that require other buildings. I just researched Steel so it obsoleted my Smithy, but I require a Smithy to build a Foundry. Kinda a catch 22 don't ya think? I know it was overpowered to keep all of the buildings indefinitely but couldn't they last a little bit longer? They obsolete so fast it's almost not wise to build them in any game faster than epic.

 

[markusbeutel]

Excellent mod - just finished a game in version 6, can't wait to try to version 7.
The only crash I experience over many hours of play, was when I dropped a nuke.

Thanks I haven't experienced the nuke crash - hopefully that's nothing to do with the mod itself. V7 introduces obsoleting buildings so there's less clutter in the build queue. Looking forward to your feedback on that .

Playing V7 and I ran into a little problem, you obsolete things that require other buildings. I just researched Steel so it obsoleted my Smithy, but I require a Smithy to build a Foundry. Kinda a catch 22 don't ya think? I know it was overpowered to keep all of the buildings indefinitely but couldn't they last a little bit longer? They obsolete so fast it's almost not wise to build them in any game faster than epic.

I should probably make it more clear in the tool-tips, but the building doesn't actually become obsolete if you've already built it. It only makes that specific building no longer buildable in the build queue. If you already have the building you keep it and it's bonuses/benefits That being said, I'll look at balancing what obsoletes what in future releases.

 

[markusbeutel]

So the new Government system is coming along smoothly - and it will probably be released either Tuesday or Wednesday in V8. Seeing as there are now only going to be 7 total Governments in place, (each with roughly 25-30 sub-policies), I was curious which Government types everyone thinks I should include? Are there Government types currently not in NiGHTS that should be included?

 

[Oohforf]

Hmm..

Monarchy
Despotism
Communism
Democracy
Tyranny (hehe, this would be an interesting one)
Theocracy
Fascism
Isocracy
Autocracy
Republicanism
Aristocracy

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Let's see, government's are usually differenced by: number of rulers, election process of the rulers, dimension of private property, dimension of civil rights. Which of those dimensions do you want to represent as governments, and which as policies?

As an example: if people speak about communism, they usually talk about Stalin style communism. Thus in reality they talk about a despotic (one ruler, or a very small cliqué), bureaucratic (promotion through success in a bureaucratic system, and not via elections), state-capitalist (everything is owned by the state, not by private owners or by "all") system with extremely limited civil rights.

If you go for all 4 dimensions, with only 3 possibilities per dimension, you'd have to come up with 3^4 = 81 governments. Some of them haven't even been tried yet I suppose. If you go for less dimensions, you significantly lower the amount of possible governments. To give you an idea how such a dimensioned system could look like:

# of rulers:

One Ruler (very small group) - Minority - Majority

choice of rulers:

Inheritance - Bureaucracy - Elections

Private Property:

"Communism" - Regulated - Neo-Liberalism

Civil Rights:

Authoritarian - Regulated - Libertarian

Now remember that I only assumed 3 discrete points for each dimension, which is much to low for a good description. But it's a start, and might give you ideas. To give you examples, here the last 100 years of german governments (and from those examples you'll see how bad 3 discrete points are, but why simple categories are worse):

The Kaiser: One Ruler, Inheritance, Regulated, Authoritarian -> Monarchy

Weimar Republic: Majority, Elections, Neo-Liberalism, Authoritarian -> Democracy

3rd Reich: One Ruler, Elections (moved to Bureaucracy), Regulated, Authoritarian -> Despotism

early BRD: Majority, Elections, Regulated, Authoritarian -> Democracy

DDR: Minority, Bureaucracy, Communism, Regulated -> "Communism"

late BRD: Majority, Elections, Neo-Liberalism, Regulated (moving slowly to Libertarian) -> Democracy

The categories are so broad, that the same category "democracy" can mean Weimar Republic, Adenauer and todays Germany, which where significantly different in both questions of private property as well as civil rights.

The simplest would be of course to just go along the "who rules, and how are they choosen" path. But then neither Communism nor Fascism have a place as governments. So for me it would be up to the question: which dimensions, and how many discreets do I want.

 

[lindanealmck]

In version 7, new or captured cities can't build a monument, or any basic culture structures that follow. The only way to get culture in those cities is with a great prophet or artist , some of the wonders, or a fairly expensive building. Any structures that require all cities to have a monument could never be built.

 

[markusbeutel]

In version 7, new or captured cities can't build a monument, or any basic culture structures that follow. The only way to get culture in those cities is with a great prophet or artist , some of the wonders, or a fairly expensive building. Any structures that require all cities to have a monument could never be built.

Monument's shouldn't have been made obsoletable - this was an oversight on my part. Governments are getting an overhaul for V8 - I'll release it either tomorrow or on Wednesday - and they'll play an important part in balancing culture that is currently being lost by culture buildings becoming obsolete. The current -10 Stability penalty to occupied cities will also be dropped to -5.

 

[Cdieu]

looking forward to it !

 

[ComradeKristov]

I was wondering if you are going to modify the Tech pyramid at all? I find some of your choices kinda strange. For instance you can have infantry before gunpowder! Or cavalry before gunpowder! Maybe infantry can come with Dynamite? Why does the Ankor Wat come with rifling? How do you build a SAM with no rockets? Why do you get a Factory with Military Science? Maybe that could be moved to replaceable parts? Oh and is there any way to boost Gold income, I seem to always be running at a deficit. It's a great mod, I hope you change up some of these little problems though. And I know it's a little OT but is there anyway you could add ranged combat to gunpowder and newer units? Just one tile ranged combat at half strength. Just an idea

 

[flymar]

Let's see, government's are usually differenced by: number of rulers, election process of the rulers, dimension of private property, dimension of civil rights. Which of those dimensions do you want to represent as governments, and which as policies?(...)

Well written. Instantly comes to my mind that dimensions should be policy branches and combination of allocated policies should give the name of the goverment...

 

[bigstuff777]

Hi i think this mod is about one of the best i played so far.. But there is a few things that is game braking for me. its that i cant build castels because i cant build walls. same for temples/monuments and forges. in the early game i am building settlers and workers and units to defend with. building walls and monuments seems to me a must thing atm. but to keep up with the AI in expantion i must be building settlers and workers and units there just is no Time to build walls/monuments/forges ect these early. +with having to keep up in research. all base buildings that req a other building really should not be obsoleted.

the other is not so much of a deal but for some reason when i go to the research tree i cant move it over to see anything pass gunpowder.

and there are a few things that do not seem right in the tech tree like the guy posted a few post back. gunpowder should have to be researched before getting infinity.

And man do the AI seem vary aggressive on deity all they want to do is War war war ...yeah there not vary friendly. no matter what i do diplomacy wise they just hate me for reasons i cant understand i mean is covent my lands all it is?...I have plenty of troops so being weak Is not the reason. Cant say i mind much though i Love the challenge.

 

[markusbeutel]

Hi i think this mod is about one of the best i played so far.. But there is a few things that is game braking for me. its that i cant build castels because i cant build walls. same for temples/monuments and forges. in the early game i am building settlers and workers and units to defend with. building walls and monuments seems to me a must thing atm. but to keep up with the AI in expantion i must be building settlers and workers and units there just is no Time to build walls/monuments/forges ect these early. +with having to keep up in research. all base buildings that req a other building really should not be obsoleted.

the other is not so much of a deal but for some reason when i go to the research tree i cant move it over to see anything pass gunpowder.

and there are a few things that do not seem right in the tech tree like the guy posted a few post back. gunpowder should have to be researched before getting infinity.

And man do the AI seem vary aggressive on deity all they want to do is War war war ...yeah there not vary friendly. no matter what i do diplomacy wise they just hate me for reasons i cant understand i mean is covent my lands all it is?...I have plenty of troops so being weak Is not the reason. Cant say i mind much though i Love the challenge.

In the next update I'll make it so prereq buildings are not obsoleted. The gunpowder tech bug should be fixed by deleting any previous versions of NiGHTS - check in your MODS folder and make they're all deleted - and by verifying your Civ V game cache through Steam. If these two things don't fix the pyramid then you probably have other mods that are conflicting with NiGHTS. Either tomorrow or Wednesday I'll be releasing V8 which will completely overhaul the Government system and UI in a way that will alleviate culture concerns for buildings that have become obsolete. I'll also swap replaceable parts and dynamite so that infantry is in the tech line for gunpowder.

 

[Balerune]

I played 446 turns as Isabella, continents immortal, sparse resources -- Rome had 4825, me 3025 but I got a space victory -- v.7. Rome only had 1 gold and -295 gpt, he had build the UN but I guess didn't have enough to bribe the city states. Rome didn't build the Apollo program. I had a world war but unlike Siam (which wasn't in this game) they eventually after loosing a few island cities agreed to peace.

Like the game in the version before it seems that for whatever reason(s) my most aggressive AI's seem to be only going for a conquest victory (or put another way I don't think I would have won if Rome had built the Apollo program.) I don't know if this was a fluke game or a problem. The AI's do all seem to be negative gpt late in the game.