HourlyDaily said:
Sorry to CivFanatics but this post is perhaps the sole reason why I dislike Israel and Israeli politics. Let me explain;
You have to understand that the issues are not black and white. Israel is simply not always in the right - but it acts like it is. Anything said against it is pounced on as 'anti-semitic' which it clearly is not. The victimhood complex really gets to me. People are genuinely sorry for the history of the Jews but there comes a point where you just have to move society on instead of always referring to the past atrocities and using it as cover for present actions. Israel holds all the power in its relationship yet despite slight majority public opinion - refuses to acknowledge Palestine and move forward with the two-state solution (Hamas, and co-operation acknowledged as problems) There are too many conflicting views and power-struggles within its Government for any movement. That is not hatred, it is a simple evaluation of the facts that people have made and come to the conclusion that the state of Israel is terribly hypocritical.
Your post quite frankly disgusts me because it represents the sort of extreme "we shall not budge, even though everybody hates us" confrontationalism (is that a word?) that makes people uncomfortable. I support the existence of a Jewish state, but I also support the right of Palestinians to their own.
No, my post is simply seeking fairness -- that Israel should get treated as every other nation. Does Israel screw up sometimes? Yes. Is Israel perfect? No. Duh.
But it's posts like yours that demonstrate the problem -- the evil of false moral equivilence. You expect Israel to move towards a "two-state solution." Well, about 75% of Israelis want a two-state solution, but there are few -- if any -- Palestinians who want the same. Every Palestinian leader (PLO or Hamas) has demanded either a "one state" solution, with Jews as second class citizens or shipped "back" to Europe (despite the fact that most Israeli Jews are middle-eastern), or a "two state" solution with a right of return to Israel -- or, in other words, 1 ethnically pure Muslim state, and 1 majority Muslim state with a persecuted Jewish minority. Sorry, but you can't expect people to just agree to be killed or persecuted.
I'll criticize Israel on a host of issues. But, unlike you, I won't pretend that Israelis and Palestinians are equally at fault, when the SOLE cause for the conflict has been the consistent refusal of Palestinians (and the entire Muslim world, save Turkey) to acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State.
I don't like the term "anti-semitic," because it is stupid and misleading. But it is terribly biased to do nothing but criticize Israel without acknowledging that: a) all states are imperfect; b) that Israel faces very real threats to its existence, and to the safety of its people; c) that a substantial minority -- if not an outright majority -- of Palestinians want to do nothing but kill Jews; d) that there is no partner for peace; e) that -- like any state -- Israel has a right to defend its people. To hold Israel to a higher standards than any other state, to criticize Israel more than any other state, is irrationally biased , plain and simple.
If you're disgusted by us Jews not walking to the gas chambers anymore, than go ahead and be disgusted.
btw, I will note that this thread -- like many before it -- simply started out wondering why the Hebrews/Israel aren't included. Then it got a rash of posters attacking Israel for every little thing. I think this sort of proves my point (as if hundreds of UN resolutions, 5 wars, thousands of suicide bombers, irrational anti-Israel academic bans and divestment campaigns, etc.) that the main reason isn't in the game is because a large number of people actively and irrationally hate Israel.
statement?
