No stack of doom ! good or bad?

[Mikkow]

Stacks will never be back except in mods. I am sure of that.

What will come, however, is probably alleviating mechanics for unit movement. Maybe two units who both have movement points be able to swap position with each other. Be able to push or swap places with allied units which are in the way (in own territory at least). Or diplomatically be able to demand that another civ move away from a tile it is occupying, to which it can yield to or defy.

 

[guino27]

I hesitate to write this, but from reading a lot of posts, I get the feeling that the concept of 1upt has gained traction as an interesting mechanic, it gets ruined by the fact that the AI is likely never going to be able to use it properly, especially given the scaling issues of the map.

While SOD is a terrible mechanic, I feel that the AI at least can provide some sort of threat to me, so it's better as a game play facilitator.

I'm still liking the SMAC style 'army' where there is only 1upt, but its composition needs to be determined by the user (providing a real benefit for combined arms). Otherwise you get the gamey PG rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock mechanic.

Edit BTW Mikkow there already is a 'swap' function for two units next to each other as long as they both have movement points and no ZOC, etc.

 

[Jolly Rogerer]

I remember being in second or third grade and making toys "fight" by smashing them together repeatedly (and quickly learning that Transformers weren't really made for that kind of abuse). Fast forward a few years and I remember my grandfather teaching me how to play chess, where every move has consequences and controlling the board is key.

SOD = Smashing your toys together.
1UPT = Chess (maybe more like checkers really, but you get the idea)

Some people really like smashing their toys together, a lot of people based on some of the discussion here...and there's nothing wrong with that. Long ago, I learned to *like* what you may find tedious. I love 1UPT because I feel like that kind of play completely belongs in a strategy game, but it may not be for everyone.

That's interesting. When I was in 2nd grade I was making more complicated games from various parts of the board games I already had. But it's probably because I was more childish than you are. After all I think the SoD is a superior simulation to 1UPT and can provide superior gameplay as well. My immaturity and low IQ must be the reasons I prefer to smash my toys together rather than play chess.

 

[msacra]

The more I play Civ V, the more 1UPT reminds me of this:

Great point! You forgot to make the chess board and pieces 3-D with crazy animations that bog down our computers, and so zoomed in that you can't see the whole board! Sigh, all things that we also don't need for a strategy game.

Overall, a lot of good points here on both sides. I'm still trying to decide if I like C3C or CIVWarlord better..., but I think C3C handled the SoD best. You could always use the block and bypass method at a fortress (strong defensive units defending in a fortress, with arty bombarding to weaken the enemy SoD). Your offensive forces could then bypass it, or destroy what's left of it...just as armies sometimes did in history...besides, unless you were fighting on pangea for CivsIII and IV, a good navy (and later air force) could stop SoD's in their tracks anyway, or at least nullify their threat to your continent.

IMO, the best solution is to either limit the tiles to 5 units per hex (ciV), or 8 units per square (CivIII and IV). This way, a stack of 8 or 5 can fan out to the neighboring tiles, but still be consolidated on to one.

The points about HoI3 are enlightening (big fan of HoI2 myself)...making a simple formula that degrades the combat power of units who are attacked from multiple tiles in one turn, furthermore, the "combined arms bonus" in HoI2 could be transferred to the Civ series.

Overall, adding these three things: 1)realistic (which CiV is not) stacking at strategic level, 2)Envelopment bonuses/penalties, and 3)Combined Arms bonus, would be the best solution.

On a side note, although Civ4 had some awesome promotions over civ3c, and Civ5 has potential (after fixing crashes, bugs, and the above problems), I think Civ3conquests had the best graphics/sprites, and view for the series...if all of these fixes could be applied to a mod of civ3conquests, I think I'd rarely ever play 4 or 5 again. I'm not great at mod-ing though...anyone think they could make this mod for Civ3C?