Noble01: The One They're Afraid to Start

[abuzeus]

2 FP is 6 food naturally. 4 food are consumed by the citizens working these 2 Fp, so there are 2 food left to support (i.e feed) a specialist. If you now farm over both FP, you get an extra food for each of them, this adds to 2 food and will support another specialist. If you cottage them, you get no extra food but two cottages. So the difference is 1 specialist vs. 2 cottages. The first specialist is there in both cases so it does not count. In my oponion, it's even a slight pro for cottaging since it will generate you some GPP points. Two scientists will double the GP generation speed but you will get the GP anyway, only later. You will have the effect of 2 cottages in the mean time, though. (I don't take the extra health and happy points consumed by the pop-heavier specialst economy into consideration here, too).
External effects (aka represantation, growth, being philosophical, <insert generic reason here>) might shift the values in favor of the extra specialists. Moreover, we don't have pottery yet so the decision is a little bit easier here.

--abu

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

Got it, will play tonight. With an SE we go rep, with CE we go HR (this all depends on if we get pyramids...) I'll check the save and post what I intend to do a little later.

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

Turn 0- Damascus to a worker. Sue me, we need something more useful than a library. Nothing else changed.
IBT: Alex asks for OB. No way.
Turn 1- We meet Julius Caesar (warrior from north.). Our favorite leaders are now on top- Julius, Toku, and Alex. Lizzie has a city 6 tiles north of Medina. BTW, on this turn, we are 7th for MFG and GNP. Will post the final demographics after my However, Mecca is on top for top 5 cities…
Turn 2- Exploring north. If Lizzie’s worker doesn’t move, I can nab it… nah. She’s too close and we’re to weak.
Turn 3- Medina's borders pop. ZZZ…
IBT: Da Bizz asks for OB. No way, dogg.
Turn 4- Worker moves onto copper, will have it up on my turnset.
Turn 5- Nothing much…
Turn 6- , as expected.
IBT: Judaism FIDL. We’ll find out who did next turn. Good thing I didn’t try to grab it, huh. See, I’m precognitive. Along with being lazy.
Turn 7- OB with Lizzie to map out her territory. And… Nottingham founded Judaism.
Turn 8- Lizzie adopts OR but not Judaism? Or OR before Judaism? Some here. I meant to change Mecca to 0 growth before it went unhappy… But I forgot. Sorry guys.
Turn 9- Nothing much…With this kind of leadership we’re gonna lose BAD. Lizzie is a Jew.
Turn 10- I spotted a hut guarded by a barb warrior down SW with a warrior I moved there.
Turn 11- Copper comes in. Yay.
Turn 12- Yeah… we’re gonna lose.
Turn 13-
Turn 14- IW comes in. We have iron in Mecca’s BFC… in a regular plains tile. Whatever. Tech Trading not allowed?! I put in hunting after wasting 1 turn on alpha
Turn 15- I kinda lost count of turns… oh well. Worker finishes in Damascus, start Lib for lack of choices. Medina finishes rax starts an axe (7)
IBT: Hinduism in Damscus. I switch for the culture.
Turn 16- Nothing.
IBT: I love Cathy, but not enough to give her OB.
Turn 17- I get hunting, switch to Maths. Look, I have no idea what I’m doing right here. Also, we’re first in score. Bask in it. We’re not going to stay in it for a while.
Turn 18- Lizzie completes Stonehenge. And 2 barb archers appear out of the fog. Whoops. Oh $#!%, what am I supposed to do now? I whip the tail end of the axe in Medina. move. Who cares now?
Turn 19- Both archers move toward us… this is not gonna be pretty.
Turn 20- not even gonna play it. I’m tired anyway. Toku’s warrior moves next to one archer, so it attacks, wins, and moves away from our territory. The other one is going for our capital.

 

[Meatbuster]

Good work!
*Whipping is fine in an emergency, just try to do it after investing at least 1 hammer.
*Being down in score during the early years is OK. The higher the level, the longer we won't be able to take the lead.

Got it.

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

Ya, I still played right there... I've won at prince before, but I do think it is a huge step up from noble. It was weed because I forgot to move Medina to the copper and it was a 1 pop whip.

 

[Meatbuster]

Pre-Turn (625BC)
Ideally one should leave their last turn with the next player just having to press enter. Or so the impression goes. During the pre-turn, players usually check the empire to see if stuff can be improved. Here are my thoughts:

I micromanage Damascus to get the Library faster:

We don't have Pottery, that's fine. It's common to go to Alphabet ASAP. Alphabet early is a strong move that allows us to temporarily catch up in tech. Mathematics is commonly taken early by the AI and we usually are able to trade for it in any game.

About the barbarian archer, it is fine. We may lose a mine, but (outside of freak accidents) it won't win against a fortified warrior at 50%.

I see we have unconnected Iron near Mecca. More workers?

IBT: Warrior on south dies to barb Warrior.

Turn 1:
Axeman kills barbarian archer.

IBT: Mine gets pillaged.

Turn 2:
I sign Open Borders with Cathy to explore her land.

IBT: Sure enough, our fortified warrior beats the Archer.

Turn 4:
Buddhism spreads to Medina. Bad.
More barbarians appear, but our Axeman is ready for them.

Turn 5:
I continue building up Axemen in Medina for an early rush.
Start chopping forests around Damascus for Library.

Turn 6:
Sure enough, the barbarians are no match for our Axemen.

Turn 7:
Pyramids built, start a worker in Mecca.

Time to change our civics. We will switch to Representation for the happiness rating as well as for improved specialists.

Turn 10:
Sure enough, we're last place. Get used to being last place for a long time. Computer is always better early, we always catch up eventually.

Damascus finishes its Library. Now to start on a Hindu Monastery, which will not only allow us to spread religion, but improve the science output of Damascus. Science output? We will be running specialists here shortly once it reaches size 4. Stay tuned!

(to be continued)

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 10 (continued):
Elizabeth founds the unwanted city of Hastings. Don't worry, we'll take it from her soon.

I move our warrior to fog-bust at our potential city site. (As long as a tile is within sight radius of any civ, it won't produce any barbarians.)

Turn 11:
Mecca finishes Worker, starts Library.


I'm going to let Mecca grow first before I build a Settler.

Turn 13:

Mecca now size 6, switch to a Settler.

Elizabeth built something nice for us. "For us"? Oh yes, for us. It will be ours soon. Being our next-door neighbor, she's a good target. Just to remind everyone, we're building an army in Medina.

Turn 14:

Damascus has reached size 4. Let's run specialists.

Before:

After:

This increases the science output of our empire tremendously.

Turn 16:
Our Axeman dies to Barbarian Axeman despite being on a better position across the river. Normally I won't do this, but the odds are in our favor:

Turn 18-20:
Mecca builds a Settler. Start moving settler to new site.
Mecca continues is pre-built library.


Alphabet is in. Time to catch up on tech trades!

(to be continued)

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 18-20 (continued):

So I make some tech trades over three turns. Usually I start trading the most expensive techs with as much of the lower-scoring civs as possible. Not just to help them catch up, but also to not increase the tech lead of the top scorers.

I would trade more, but alas, everyone already has what we have. Couldn't get Math, which was a shame.
We aren't able to trade anything other than Alphabet for now. I prefer to hang on to Alphabet up to Monarch level, to keep my advantage over the computer. A good path for tech trading is Literature -> Music -> Drama -> Philosophy. For higher difficulties it is after all better to research techs not because they're useful but they're good for trade. Very important, always remember this unless you're in the tech lead, where you just research what is useful.

Set up the city of Baghdad and start a work boat there for growth. Usually we start with Granary or Theater first. However Work Boats are better in this case. Worker in some cases.

How our empire looks like now.

Finally, our military status.

I'd leave one Axeman each at Mecca and Damascus for barbaian defence, then send the rest against Elizabeth. I say at this point 4 Swords 4 Axes and 1-2 Spears are enough. Also build extra Archers or Axes so we can leave them in cities that we conquer.

Ok I did hired two scientists in Damascus to go faster, but I'm firing them now. Why? The Pyramids in Mecca will soon get us a Great Engineer which I believe will be useful for now. The plan is to build the Great Library (instantly, using the engineer) in Damascus after researching Literature, then re-hire the Scientists at Damascus to get our first Great Scientist faster.

Good luck on your turns! We're in good shape now (score leader, even) and soon we will be expanding our empire via conquest. Take it one city at a time. Our first attack might be against Hastings, a city on a hill. Oh well, lose some troops always build more!

Thanks imageshack for image hosting.

THE SAVE:

 

[abuzeus]

God turns. The great library is only natural since we are philosophical. Great scientists, here we come . I would even consider going after construction to build the hanging gardens at Mecca. We'd have some serious great engineer points going there, even more after hiring an engineer once we have metal casting. If we keep the gene pool clear, this would give us one or two guaranteed wonders - a really nice thing.
Btw, what is that worker doing up there at Medina? We are building an army over there, its the natural production centre and instead of mining the hills, which can easily be supported by the food in the area, he is building a cottage somewhere at the soon-to-be front. I'd rather have that mines than this dubious cottage
I also noted we are at a very uneven turn count, 347 turns left. Did somebody have some one-more-turnitis there?
Citywise, I see three good spots at this little peninsula at the south, each of them grabbing 2 ressources or more. We can make some nice commerce over there, and nobody should be able to steal it from us. Anyway, war with Lizzy sounds good. She founded judaism for us, although I'd like the city to be one tile west.
Techwise, I think researching hunting was not necessary. We didn't need it but for the spears, and since it is an extremely cheap tech, we could have traded for this as well. I personally don't think we need the free artist from music and we could research something different to trade anyway. Philosophy sounds good, a combined GL, philosophical and pacifism will be kinda scaring

--abu

 

[Meatbuster]

Well, a free Great Artist is a free Great Artist. And you are absolutely right that we don't need Music... it's for trading. As for what to do with said Great Artist, we can definitely use it in the war with England after taking a city. Not so useless anymore, eh?

As long as the Notre Dame (which IMO is one of the most worthless wonders to build) has not been built, the computer will value Music highly. We can also trade Literature away but it is a cheap in terms of beaker value, and after we build the Great Library it will immediately lose more value. You are right that Philosophy good for trade right now. For one, we don't need Angkor Wat and two, the AI has no use for Pacifism.

 

[LlamaCat]

Ok I'm up now for 15 turns right? I got the file....

 

[Meatbuster]

Yes, you are up, good luck!

Once we get the Great Engineer, GL goes to Damascus, then re-hire scientist specialist there.

 

[LlamaCat]

25 BC
cancel worker on the cottage in Medina, move him to forested hill to begin mine - we need production there in this city now for war! begin the road to Baghdad ...

1 AD
library in Mecca complete; start barracks, due in 4 turns

25
since a 2nd cottage is now complete in Mecca, I switch a citizen from working the farm to the cottage so it will grow (same food + commerce for now).

1st swordsman heading toward border with Elizabeth to rendevous with the 2 axemen I've sent there.

50
the monastery completes in Damascus and I've lined up an Axeman (yes, no barracks here) and a settler for after that. Medina reaches happiness limit so I've started working that hill where the mine will be, to increase production and slow (but not stop) growth in this city.

75
our exploring warrior in the East spots the first Roman city we can see - horse archers!

A new English city is founded too close for comfort - on the coast just west of Damascus is the fledgling town of Canterbury. That's it Liz, we're definitely coming after you now. I thought I had seen a settler and some archers heading that way. Now I wonder if we should start the attack here? But wait...

Hastings is suddenly much less defended than when my turns started - she's sending support down to Canterbury and leaving Hastings very vulnerable. Here is the situation:

Maybe we could slice a wedge into their puny empire and choke off Canturbury's supply line.

So I'm thinking of blitzing Liz in Hastings first. We've got an extra axeman outside Damascus guarding the mine and I think he should stay put, now that we've got a new city right next to us. You can see I've got swords and axes beginning two stacks at the rendevous points southeast of Hastings. Too bad we don't have roads on this path yet because my goal here is surprise. Get it over quickly.

 

[LlamaCat]

100
time to crank out a couple more swords in Mecca now that barracks are done. The time to attack Hastings is near!

I'm moving the citizen off the uneaten cows in Baghdad onto the uneaten crabs for extra commerce to get out of deficit spending for the moment. Baghdad is still growing at same rate and I've got 2 workers tipping cows and mining a hill there as we speak.

Oh beautiful, Canterbury will have some Tales to tell, because they've got a barb at their doorstep and he's weakened one of the city defenders for us. This city is actually acting as a nice buffer zone as I prepare for a surprise attack on Hastings.

125

Oh Liz, you're not very happy with us. well, guess what....

Bonzai!!! Oh wait, we are Saladin...

 

[LlamaCat]

Now, I would love to have a worker start on another mine NE of Medina on that forest-grassland-hill, but we're officially at war and York is too close to our borders up there. I've only got one defender for Medina, so I'm going to start a cottage 1 E of the city and wait for a unit to escort that worker to the hill later.

Canterbury is really hurtin' from those barbs. I plan to rush Hastings then circle back to this city and finish it off.

150
2 more military units pop out; start settler in Damascus and will finish in 9 turns.

Damn, these 2 axemen someone left me are so well-promoted, seems a shame to throw them to the fire first. I'm going to wait a turn until the swordsmen arrive at Hastings next turn or two.

175
Literature comes in - oh crap, sort of lost track of research, been having too much fun planning my tactics. What's next - math?

Canterbury is getting culturally squeezed and I might have a two-pronged attack going before long. The goal I think should be to take these two cities from Liz quickly and maybe bargain for peace for a while? We're hurting on money.

Imhotep born in Mecca - will leave him there for now but I presume we send him to Damascus to finish the Great Library once the settler is done? Changed my mind, why wait? We are going to pick up two new cities in short order so let's get our library.

 

[LlamaCat]

Finally, time to attack. First sword dies by Liz's archer. Second one kicks ass. Just a full-strength spearman left in Hastings now. And two very experienced axemen in the jungle.... The city is ours in 1 turn! The other axeman is sent to circle back toward Canterbury and meet up with a sword and another axe. Let's get this over quickly, troops!

200
Meanwhile, guess what's going on back in Medina? Yep, I'm getting wonder greedy - we can create Heroic Epic and it will take only 13 turns without marble. This is our first military academy for later wars.

 

[LlamaCat]

I move 2 axemen and 1 sword into Hastings to heal. I promote the sword to city raider II.
Baghdad is now size 2 and has Surf 'n Turf thanks to the diligence of 2 workers. Time to crank out that work boat and grow.

Also time to hurry the Great Library in Damascus with our engineer from Mecca -- hope this was ok, I think it was the consensus?

225
OK so the GL is complete and we've got 2 extra scientists thinking hard in Damascus. The settler is on the way. I move a worker over to this city to start another farm on a flood plains/desert tile.

I switch off military production in Mecca and go for a Hindu monastery for extra research.

250
Alex ends our open borders deal - he doesn't like our religion. Screw you. Our new city of Hastings starts on a Jewish temple - not a fan of Obelisk and temple will only take 2 exra turns. We're fighting a cultural war on that border with Liz. Oh and look at what we have access to now: horses I tile east of Hastings. There's also another iron supply we're about to claim in Canterbury.

At just 30 percent odds, our first sword is victorious over an archer in Canterbury. Nice.

275
work boat ready in Baghdad, start on library for eventual border expansion, but we don't need that anytime real soon.
Another sword takes out that second archer in Canterbury with 57.7 percent odds. Another city in the Prince-Saladin empire.

Now I say we bargain for peace and build up, but I will leave that for the next player. We have a few extra swords and axemen roaming the forests of our western border, should we push on? I didn't think it would be this easy to take these two cities and might have overdone it a bit for my immediate goal of a quick expansion war.

 

[LlamaCat]

300
Cathy demands Literature. Is she nuts? I can't just give that away without the consensus of my team...

325
I started up National Epic in Mecca but not sure about that call. The city is nearing its happiness limit, by the way.

Liz won't talk to us.. gee I wonder why? Maybe 'cause I laid an ass-whooping on her. So do we try to finish her off or wait until she cools off and give peace a chance? No war weariness at this point of course - the only reason taking those two cities took more than 3 turns was because we had no roads out to them yet, but I started on them now.

Check this out, there's a Japanese chariot about to get boxed in by a border expansion at Medina the very next turn. Wonder what will happen there?

So anyway I got a worker starting a road to Hastings. Math is due in 1 turn. Damascus is about to pop a great scientist of course. We're actually weakest in power (even below Liz??) but OK in score. I tried to trade away Literature for a package deal of cheap techs like sailing, archery and horseback riding, but no dice. Maybe that was too ambitious. I suck on trading. I also suck on navigating the tech tree.

Here is the state of the empire after my conquests (Mecca is actually working the National Epic now):

And here is the military map:

You see I've got a spearman stationed on that forested hill that's being mined north of Medina, for even more production power. I was nervous about Liz attacking from York, but so far she's basically bent over and taken it.

 

[Meatbuster]

*snip, moved to next page*

 

[LlamaCat]

I hope I ended on the right turn, it's an even number at least. Felt like I did pretty well here for my level but let's hear what the critics think. We have a settler and a great scientist almost ready in Damascus, so expansion is going at a good pace I think. Money is becoming a problem though. I notice we have two more iron sources that will come online pretty soon, so possible good trade items? I also just noticed that we need more workers! Maybe I should have started on a worker when I stopped military production after those two cities fell.

Here is the save.