Meatbuster
formerly Robo Kai
The worker one and the no-Monotheism one.
Noble01: The One They're Afraid to Start
- Thread starter pholkhero
- Start date
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
yeah 
on your first turnset ~ some things, for future consideration:
* Buddhism: on higher levels, you'll almost ALWAYS lose out to this simply b/c the AI goes for it first and gets boni to research, that was why i suggested the Poly > Masonry > Mono route ~ but you're way worked just as good! I would, however, forget about other religions unless you're going for cultural. Also, if you swap back to 'No State Religion" you'll get more culture per turn @ Mecca.
* Worker building roads. Normally, you should hold off on building a worker until you have something useful to do. Not to say that a road isn't useful, but it's not immediately necessary, whereas you could've grown more and build another warrior or two.
As i said, though, don't worry about your turns too much. SG's are self-correcting b/c their are multiple players. Your
is fixed by the next GreyFox...er, person, and you'll fix someone else's...it's all very karmic 
btw, let me know we should leave (rex, fox, et al) ~ we ARE sort of mucking about in your thread
on your first turnset ~ some things, for future consideration:* Buddhism: on higher levels, you'll almost ALWAYS lose out to this simply b/c the AI goes for it first and gets boni to research, that was why i suggested the Poly > Masonry > Mono route ~ but you're way worked just as good! I would, however, forget about other religions unless you're going for cultural. Also, if you swap back to 'No State Religion" you'll get more culture per turn @ Mecca.
* Worker building roads. Normally, you should hold off on building a worker until you have something useful to do. Not to say that a road isn't useful, but it's not immediately necessary, whereas you could've grown more and build another warrior or two.
As i said, though, don't worry about your turns too much. SG's are self-correcting b/c their are multiple players. Your
is fixed by the next GreyFox...er, person, and you'll fix someone else's...it's all very karmic btw, let me know we should leave (rex, fox, et al) ~ we ARE sort of mucking about in your thread
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
That's where my eye went first! All those grass hills and crabs ~ as borat says: Nice! It almost even looks like there should be a metal in them thar hills . . .Robo Kai said:
Cheron
Chieftain
15 turns later...
2800 BC (1):
Take a look around and move the warrior toMedina Mecca, fortify. Nothing else.
2760 BC (2):
zzZZzz...
2720 BC (3):
Mining comes in. Set research to BW, due in 11. Our worker starts to mine one of the plains/hills.
Cathy adopts Slavery.
2680 BC (4) - 2640 (5):
Watch Lizzy's warrior exploring. Watch the snow behind my window falling. Watch our worker working.
2600 BC (6):
The mine is ready.Moscow Mecca works it, instead of a 2F/1H/1G tile. This makes both the settler and BW finish in 9 turns (prior: BW 8, settler 11).
The worker starts to build a road to the other hill.
2560 BC (7) - 2400 BC (11):
Watch Lizzy's warrior exploring. Watch the snow... you get it.
2360 BC (12):
Worker has finished roading, starts mining.
2320 BC (13), 2280 BC (14):
zzZZzz...
2240 BC (15):
Yay, action!
Settler and BW are ready. We adopt Slavery.
We know of only one source of Copper, near Llamas "next city here?"-sign to the NE:
Medina Mecca starts another warrior. Note that it will be due in 7, not 3 as shown above, since I reconfigured Mecca for more growth (...tbd):
I started to research Agriculture, but thats open to discussion, of course. No beakers have been invested.
I lean towards settling somewhere in the North. That's where the AI are and that's where Copper is. We don't have neither Fishing nor AH, so both ressources in theWestEast are useless to us at this point - and we still have to research other techs like Pottery, Archery etc.
I had no barb encounters 'til now.
p.s: Is the image size okay? I compressed them to 640*512.
edit: mixed up W and E...
2800 BC (1):
Take a look around and move the warrior to
2760 BC (2):
zzZZzz...
2720 BC (3):
Mining comes in. Set research to BW, due in 11. Our worker starts to mine one of the plains/hills.
Cathy adopts Slavery.
2680 BC (4) - 2640 (5):
Watch Lizzy's warrior exploring. Watch the snow behind my window falling. Watch our worker working.
2600 BC (6):
The mine is ready.
The worker starts to build a road to the other hill.
2560 BC (7) - 2400 BC (11):
Watch Lizzy's warrior exploring. Watch the snow... you get it.
2360 BC (12):
Worker has finished roading, starts mining.
2320 BC (13), 2280 BC (14):
zzZZzz...
2240 BC (15):
Yay, action!
Settler and BW are ready. We adopt Slavery.We know of only one source of Copper, near Llamas "next city here?"-sign to the NE:
I started to research Agriculture, but thats open to discussion, of course. No beakers have been invested.
I lean towards settling somewhere in the North. That's where the AI are and that's where Copper is. We don't have neither Fishing nor AH, so both ressources in the
I had no barb encounters 'til now.
p.s: Is the image size okay? I compressed them to 640*512.
edit: mixed up W and E...
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
ya know, if you settle one SW of the copper, on that desert, you'll get the Stones, the Copper, 5 Desert FPs (4 food a piece!) and 4 hills! That's not too shabby, eh?
Meatbuster
formerly Robo Kai
The image size is OK. 
Since you pointed out we don't have fishing and AH, let's settle 1e or 2east of the Second City Here sign to get the pig, rice AND bronze in the fatcross. Sorry about the stone, but grabbing it requires making a food-poor city that won't benefit us in the long run.
EDIT: Sorry, messed up EAST AND WEST!
Since you pointed out we don't have fishing and AH, let's settle 1e or 2east of the Second City Here sign to get the pig, rice AND bronze in the fatcross. Sorry about the stone, but grabbing it requires making a food-poor city that won't benefit us in the long run.
EDIT: Sorry, messed up EAST AND WEST!
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
sorry, i meant 1 SW, 1 S (in the desert tile, in the cradle of those mts): that's 6 desert FPs ~ food poor?!? farmed, that's 24 food right there!
but i'm not even in this game
but i'm not even in this game
Cheron
Chieftain
I'd settle 1E of that sign. That gets us pigs and copper without expansion. We'd lose some production capacity (by three hills), though.
@pholk: Hmm, I see only 5 FPs
- two of which "belong" to Mecca...
@pholk: Hmm, I see only 5 FPs
- two of which "belong" to Mecca...Thanks for the advice everyone... lurkers welcome of course. Lots to digest here so I am just absorbing, but I still like somewhere in the vicinity of my second city site suggestion (say that 10 times fast!) because now we see copper. Where are the barbs?! I get more action on Noble level than this... and go kill some more lions.
I agree with earlier comment that going for the third religion might be overkill - let's shore up and grow now and see where it leads us. But at some point you have to sacrifice some things for others, so I neglected Agriculture and Pottery for later - we had decent food/coins in the capital and I figured you guys were good enough to catch us up later on that other stuff.
PS sorry I hit "Next Turn" at the end of turn 30, I didn't know that was the rule but will not do it from now on
I agree with earlier comment that going for the third religion might be overkill - let's shore up and grow now and see where it leads us. But at some point you have to sacrifice some things for others, so I neglected Agriculture and Pottery for later - we had decent food/coins in the capital and I figured you guys were good enough to catch us up later on that other stuff.
PS sorry I hit "Next Turn" at the end of turn 30, I didn't know that was the rule but will not do it from now on
Hi everyone,
I had a posting on city locations halfway finished some hours ago but then some guys showed up at my office hour and I had some real work to do. Anyway it's not that problematic since we now know where the copper is...
I'd put the second city 2 E of the sign. This site will have rice, pigs, copper and 4 hills + some forests. That will make a real nice production city AND we settle on a plains, not on a grassland. We then can settle one NW of the stone (on the desert) to get stone, 3FP and some other river tiles without overlap, though having 2 plains forest overlap will not be that bad.
Since our second city most likely will have the rice, we should really try to get agriculture in now. And pottery for some commerce
There is also a spot SW of the capital where we can get corn, pigs, two hills and tons of grassland. But since it seems that there is nobody down there we can treat this as backfill for now. Seafood in the area might make splitting this into two citys worthwhile.
Good turns on grabbing that two religions Llamacat. Having judaism too control early religions would be nice, but I agree that this might slow down our growth more than necessaray.
edit:
One SW of the Copper grabs only 3 FP, to get all of them we would need to settle 2S 1W of the copper. But 2 of these FP are in the Fat Cross of MMM (;-)) and I really don't like the site. Desert hills are hills, but grassland hills ore plain hills definitely make better for production citys.
I had a posting on city locations halfway finished some hours ago but then some guys showed up at my office hour and I had some real work to do.
Anyway it's not that problematic since we now know where the copper is...I'd put the second city 2 E of the sign. This site will have rice, pigs, copper and 4 hills + some forests. That will make a real nice production city AND we settle on a plains, not on a grassland. We then can settle one NW of the stone (on the desert) to get stone, 3FP and some other river tiles without overlap, though having 2 plains forest overlap will not be that bad.
Since our second city most likely will have the rice, we should really try to get agriculture in now. And pottery for some commerce
There is also a spot SW of the capital where we can get corn, pigs, two hills and tons of grassland. But since it seems that there is nobody down there we can treat this as backfill for now. Seafood in the area might make splitting this into two citys worthwhile.
Good turns on grabbing that two religions Llamacat. Having judaism too control early religions would be nice, but I agree that this might slow down our growth more than necessaray.
edit:
One SW of the Copper grabs only 3 FP, to get all of them we would need to settle 2S 1W of the copper. But 2 of these FP are in the Fat Cross of MMM (;-)) and I really don't like the site. Desert hills are hills, but grassland hills ore plain hills definitely make better for production citys.
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
Hello all.
Saladin is a really fun leader to play. I just love spiritual and philosophical. You can switch around from growth/caste system/pacifism/GPP generation, to population whipping/building buildings with slavery/organized religion so easily.
I have also made an attempt at a hydra. Here is a picture of five religions being founded in Mecca.
I outline the strategy i used here.
During this game, i made very heavy used of specialists and used the pyramids, pacifism, and the philosophical trait to synergistic effect. I also build the angkor wat very early (using an engineer i got from building the pyramids) and was able to get four shrines by the 1500s by running between 3 and 5 priests in my second city for the years 0-1500. I haven't finished this game yet, but if you want to see an example of saladin with a multi-headed hydra, i invite you to have a quick look.
Anyway, back to YOUR game. I too strongly suggest that until you need either organized religion or the additional happiness, you not declare a state religion. This (as was mentioned), will increase your culture that much faster (this is especially true if you continue to 'hog' religions).
Since you have stone and you are Saladin, i would strongly suggest that you pick up the pyramids (especially if you get masonry on your way to organized religion for a 3-headed hydra). No other leader, in my opinion, can make as much use out of the pyramids as Saladin can. 1) Philosophical leaders and representation go together like chocolate and cheese 2) Spiritual leaders and the government civic switches depending on requirements are also very useful. If you are running theocracy and vassalage and your cities are mostly set to build an army, might as well build them under police state to get a 25% larger army. If you end up with lots of money and colonies that need a quick boost, switch to universal suffrage and pay for the boosts you need. Run representation most of the time (along with pacifism?).
Anyway, i hope you have a great time. I had a super time (so far) playing my 'flavour challenge' with Saladin.
Good luck,
Immac.
Saladin is a really fun leader to play. I just love spiritual and philosophical. You can switch around from growth/caste system/pacifism/GPP generation, to population whipping/building buildings with slavery/organized religion so easily.
I have also made an attempt at a hydra. Here is a picture of five religions being founded in Mecca.
I outline the strategy i used here.
During this game, i made very heavy used of specialists and used the pyramids, pacifism, and the philosophical trait to synergistic effect. I also build the angkor wat very early (using an engineer i got from building the pyramids) and was able to get four shrines by the 1500s by running between 3 and 5 priests in my second city for the years 0-1500. I haven't finished this game yet, but if you want to see an example of saladin with a multi-headed hydra, i invite you to have a quick look.
Anyway, back to YOUR game. I too strongly suggest that until you need either organized religion or the additional happiness, you not declare a state religion. This (as was mentioned), will increase your culture that much faster (this is especially true if you continue to 'hog' religions).
Since you have stone and you are Saladin, i would strongly suggest that you pick up the pyramids (especially if you get masonry on your way to organized religion for a 3-headed hydra). No other leader, in my opinion, can make as much use out of the pyramids as Saladin can. 1) Philosophical leaders and representation go together like chocolate and cheese
2) Spiritual leaders and the government civic switches depending on requirements are also very useful. If you are running theocracy and vassalage and your cities are mostly set to build an army, might as well build them under police state to get a 25% larger army. If you end up with lots of money and colonies that need a quick boost, switch to universal suffrage and pay for the boosts you need. Run representation most of the time (along with pacifism?).Anyway, i hope you have a great time. I had a super time (so far) playing my 'flavour challenge' with Saladin.
Good luck,
Immac.
Cheron
Chieftain
@LlamaCat: re: important things: I noticed that, but too late
Sry about confusing anybody, I will stick with Mecca from now on - an edit my previous posts
re: city placement: Founding 2E would mean we had to build a monument quite fast, to get copper worked. Is that worth it?
Will play in ~30 min.
Sry about confusing anybody, I will stick with Mecca from now on - an edit my previous posts
re: city placement: Founding 2E would mean we had to build a monument quite fast, to get copper worked. Is that worth it?
Will play in ~30 min.
I really think the long term benefit weights out the small handicap of having to get some culture over there. Growing to size 2 and whipping might a monument cost us 10ish turns (and additional 10 for the culture to pop), but I think its worth it. We'll have to build some extra warriors...
Cheron
Chieftain
My last 5 turns:
2240 BC (15) (continued):
Our warrior and the settler head NE. (The warrior is due in 7, barbs would after spotting need at least 5 turns to the city.)
We continue researching Agriculture.
MMM - formerly known as Mecca - builds another warrior, as now we have NO city defense in our capital.
I swap back to no state religion. We now get 12cpt instead of 7.
2200 BC (16):
Lizzy adopts slavery.
Our worker has build the second mine. He begins to build a road in the general direction of our possible second city locations (has nothing else to do, since I didn't want to chop forests yet).
2160 BC (17), 2120 BC (18):
zzZZzz...
2080 BC (19):
Mecca grows to 4. It seems to be at it's happiness cap, but 1 unhappy will be removed, when the warrior is done.
2040 BC (20):
Medina is founded 2E of Llama's sign. It starts a warrior, because I see 3 barb warriors incoming. (Note: the southernmost has been killed by Lizzy's warrior in the last interturn.)
MMM is configured to max growth. When its reaches its limit @ 5, we could switch back into state religion for another happiness.
We research @100% / -1gpt. Agri has finished after my last turn, as has the warrior in MMM.
I'd suggest researching AH -> IW next. We might want so see, if we have horses available and the pigs can't be worked without IW to chop the jungle on that tile.
We definitely need more warriors!
Abuzeus is up now, I guess. Have fun
The save:
2240 BC (15) (continued):
Our warrior and the settler head NE. (The warrior is due in 7, barbs would after spotting need at least 5 turns to the city.)
We continue researching Agriculture.
MMM - formerly known as Mecca - builds another warrior, as now we have NO city defense in our capital.
I swap back to no state religion. We now get 12cpt instead of 7.
2200 BC (16):
Lizzy adopts slavery.
Our worker has build the second mine. He begins to build a road in the general direction of our possible second city locations (has nothing else to do, since I didn't want to chop forests yet).
2160 BC (17), 2120 BC (18):
zzZZzz...
2080 BC (19):
Mecca grows to 4. It seems to be at it's happiness cap, but 1 unhappy will be removed, when the warrior is done.
2040 BC (20):
Medina is founded 2E of Llama's sign. It starts a warrior, because I see 3 barb warriors incoming. (Note: the southernmost has been killed by Lizzy's warrior in the last interturn.)
MMM is configured to max growth. When its reaches its limit @ 5, we could switch back into state religion for another happiness.
We research @100% / -1gpt. Agri has finished after my last turn, as has the warrior in MMM.
I'd suggest researching AH -> IW next. We might want so see, if we have horses available and the pigs can't be worked without IW to chop the jungle on that tile.
We definitely need more warriors!
Abuzeus is up now, I guess. Have fun
The save:
Got it and I have time to play now. Nevertheless, I will play tomorrow to give the team the chance to discuss the progress so far. We have two cities now and exactly two warriors. So I guess it's time to declare on Cathy and capture some more cities 
... wait, wrong movie.
There are two barbarian warriors near Medina (note that this refers to our second city and not to some different named incarnation of 3M-city), so this will be some kind of dice roll. Keep your fingers crossed !
The plan for the next 20 turns:
- fend of barbarians
- connect copper
- improve capital
- not screw up and stay away from the
Research wise I'd really like to grab pottery to get our commerce up. Iron working might also be nice to cut the jungle on our to-be pigs and look for more metals, but someone mentioned we want to build the pyramids and this needs masonry, a third city to get the stone and time. Since we can't have everything, we might need to discuss what to skip and what to priorize. This explains my delay in playing ;-)
... wait, wrong movie. There are two barbarian warriors near Medina (note that this refers to our second city and not to some different named incarnation of 3M-city
), so this will be some kind of dice roll. Keep your fingers crossed !The plan for the next 20 turns:
- fend of barbarians
- connect copper
- improve capital
- not screw up and stay away from the
Research wise I'd really like to grab pottery to get our commerce up. Iron working might also be nice to cut the jungle on our to-be pigs and look for more metals, but someone mentioned we want to build the pyramids and this needs masonry, a third city to get the stone and time. Since we can't have everything, we might need to discuss what to skip and what to priorize. This explains my delay in playing ;-)
We already have Masonry researched, and I'm thinking let's get a third city ASAP up at the top of that river to connect the stone and start on Pyramids. Plus we get a trade route +1 from the river to MMM, right?
I'm not as concerned about Pottery/commerce for some reason, given we have some cash in the bank. I've been reading how people go overkill with cottages in the early game and testing this out lately in my games, I've been doing much better. Don't forget, there was a Hut I failed to pop to the SW of MMM that should still be there I think? That might have some $$$.
I like the idea of going for iron working and/or Monotheism. Just my 1 cent, I really don't mind whatever you guys play on your turns, it can't be worse than what I will do.
Keep in mind if we plant a city on that river north of the captial, we will only need 1 tile road built from the stone to the river to hook it up and start on Pyramids in MMM. I'm a huge fan of the Pyramids for early civic options. Then I tend to back off the wonders for a little while and go nuts on production, but that's just my style.
I'm not as concerned about Pottery/commerce for some reason, given we have some cash in the bank. I've been reading how people go overkill with cottages in the early game and testing this out lately in my games, I've been doing much better. Don't forget, there was a Hut I failed to pop to the SW of MMM that should still be there I think? That might have some $$$.
I like the idea of going for iron working and/or Monotheism. Just my 1 cent, I really don't mind whatever you guys play on your turns, it can't be worse than what I will do.
Keep in mind if we plant a city on that river north of the captial, we will only need 1 tile road built from the stone to the river to hook it up and start on Pyramids in MMM. I'm a huge fan of the Pyramids for early civic options. Then I tend to back off the wonders for a little while and go nuts on production, but that's just my style.
pholkhero
Deviant Mind
you won't get any trade routes until you research Currency, but you do get +1 commerce to every tile that borders the river.LlamaCat said:
also, i like to build farms first in my cities just b/c it lets you grow faster in the short-term and run some scientists later on as well. Also, remember that Saladin is Philosophical still in Vanillla; you should be running a farm/specialist-economy anyway!
and since i can't help for interjecting in this game, if this were an SP game of mine, i'd get any other worker techs you need (not counting masonry) and head towards writing and alphabet. You could even go through Priesthood and chop the Oracle somewhere. then, w/a Library up and running at Mecca: hello Great Scientists!
build order: defense and settlers!
btw, i WAS indeed wrong on the FP count, but i still would've settled there for the lower maintenence so
Emp. Killyouall
EVIL Emperor
Um... whats the play order? BTW, in my games I usually avoid the three early religions and pick up confucianism or taoism. Awesome turnsets everyone!
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