Noble's Club 208: De Gaulle of France

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is De Gaulle of France, whom we last played in NC CXVIII...I think . I searched for the last NC game with De Gaulle but couldn't find the topic directly, so...records it is . Likewise, as far as I can find, we last played the French under Louis XIV in NC CIX. The French start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

• Traits: De Gaulle is Industrious and Charismatic. Industrious provides a +50% bonus on all Wonders (both World and National), and doubles production speed of the Forge . Charismatic provides +1 to all cities, Monuments and Broadcast Towers, and reduces the XP needed for unit promotions by 25%.
  
• The UB: The Salon, an Observatory with +1 free Artist, providing +1, +4 and +3 GA . Not a bad bonus for cities facing cultural pressure, but your Great Person Pool will never be free from Great Artist pollution again.
  The UU: The Musketeer, a Musketman with 2 instead of 1. If you're attacking someone with Mounted units and are afraid of Pikeman sniping the strongest units in your army, bring along Musketeers as stack defenders. They can keep up with their allies on horseback. Somehow .

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Temperate climate, High Sea level.

Spoiler edits :

Swapped player starting position with an AI, swapped a Wine tile with Stone and an Oil tile with Marble. Also moved the forest that was on the settler's starting position 2SE.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC number Leader Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labelled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

For those who want an additional challenge, try to get as large a reserve of as you can...while maintaining 100% (or , or ) slider positions for as long as possible. De Gaulle would very much like to continue to march forwards into France's future, whatever that entails, but his advisers are always ever so worried about the country's ever dwindling economic reserves. Perhaps founding Civilized Jewellers, spreading it far and wide and ensuring that the city that houses it's HQ has every economic building under the sun will finally appease (or at least distract...) De Gaulle's miserly crew .

 

[AcaMetis]

I just noticed the typo in the thread name. Curses! All that time spend checking and double-checking the post and even fixing a typo present in the boilerplate ("a drop down menu labeled with", fixed to "labelled") and I forgot to double check the actual thread title . Well...fine . If that's the only mistake I've made then I'll be happy.

As for the start, looks juicy . Anyone have a play in mind that doesn't start (or ends the first turn) with SIP? I'd very much like to hear it .

 

[krikav]

Yes, warrior NW.
If there is fish 3N of warriors start pos, that would be ruined by SIP.
Settle 1S if thats the case.
But there is never fish...

Other than that, I can't think of anything. Inclined to go mining first for the gold, possibly fishing after that? But SIP info and 5 turns of scouting will tell.

 

[krikav]

At T30 now, and I love this map, exacly what I was looking for!
Thanks alot for hosting @AcaMetis !

 

[AcaMetis]

Glad to hear you like it . By all means post some screenshots and talk about how you're approaching the map, and your strategies both short- and long-term . In part for those who can learn something from it, in part because I'm curious to see how far off my intent is with how the map actually plays.

 

[Fippy]

If you intended this as wonders & failgold exercise, while keeping a grim eye on health, then i would say success

 

[krikav]

Sure thing!

Played until T60 here.

Spoiler :

I went mining->BW->Fishing. Farmed both the floodplains (My god what a workerturn-sink they are!).
I think that was wise as the golden curse will haunt this capital.

Stone and ind makes me think of pyramids, so any extra food for specialists is probably better than cottages, cottages I'll place on the food neutral green land.
At T26 I see the shape of the island. Not much here!

Abit confused about the long term plan still, but I'll clearly make a shot at pyramids.
I'm not completely sold at pyramids here though the island isn't exacly the eden of food...

Will ignore monarchy as cha+gold will provide enough happines.
Early optics and probably 1 or 2 bulbs into astro I think is best here.
Only detour will be to litterature for GLib+national epic.
Failgold will play a heavy role in keeping the economy strong.

Room for 6 decent cities, but it's thinkable that I'll stay at 4 cities until optics.

Waited until size 4 to start the settler as it lined up nicely with 2 turns working the settler and one chop landing to reach 40H and be able to 2pop whip it.

I didn't even get a tundra fish.

I gambled and went AH before masonry, really wanted that sheep online.
Ofcourse there is no horses.
Have to think abit about the bulb-path here, could be an option to avoid CS and go straight for some chem-bulb.
Don't think I'll go for CoL myself or some philo-bulbing stunt, too little food.

Failgold yum yum.

The barb warrior have been standing next to my warrior across the river possibly 10 times and walked away every time. He will likely raze my marble-city at 1% odds or something like that.

Darn slow TGW I think, oh well now it's 100% slider for a long time.

Abit torn now on how I should continue. ToAR is just built so poly gives no immediate benefit.
Should probably wait and see if I get pyramids before I go all out for GLib, so some other tech first.
Anythig toward optics is thinkable... Sailing for a lone lighthouse? MC and half-price forges for +1 happines? IW to see if I have iron and possibly gain some power-tile?

 

[AcaMetis]

If you intended this as wonders & failgold exercise, while keeping a grim eye on health, then i would say success

Basically .

Spoiler :

I was more focussed on happy rather than health, thinking that with so little food it wouldn't be considered worthwhile to actually finish the Mids (as I see you did ) and get early access to Rep's +3, but between an easy +2 from being CHA/Monument and another +2 from building a cheap IND Forge and hooking up Gold I figured that De Gaulle could solve the happy issue like a champ. For the record I was looking for a map that had stuff like plains (hill) sheep, cows and maybe some Wheat for food. What I got was about a hundred islands with triple+ seafood, Corn and Pigs galore...and this. It disrespects the king of Civ IV well enough .

And yes, the map was also intended as an exercise of the power of failbuilding wonders . I also tried to engineer the best situation I could think of for the Salon to shine in a Culture game, since Astronomy for oversea trade routes is about the most tempting reason I could think of to go out of your way for Astronomy when going Culture. Sure, it obsoletes monuments, but resource trades should more than cover the loss of +1. It remains to be seen whether that'll pay out, though.

Sure thing!

Played until T60 here.

Spoiler :

Great read . Now realize that the island has more (powerful) food tiles than I wanted it to have, and dread the next time I roll a map .

Incidentally, those two failgold screenshots are exactly what the map was intended to show. 84 put into the Great Wall, 210 put in the bank. De Gaulle's advisers approve .

 

[krikav]

Regarding mids:

Spoiler :

I think they would be very worthwhile, the extra beakers from specialists (especially those from GLib!), we likely want to run quite a few scientists anyway to reach some bulbs early on. Usual setup is academy and 2 bulbs into astro, but I start to doubt that I'll have time for that now when I also hunt wonders&failgold.
The abundant happy-cap alows you to be sloppy and just do 1pop whips when convenient.

And later on, police state with +25% bonus on units will be a huge boon, as I suspect that it will be needed.

 

[AcaMetis]

Hmm ...

Spoiler :

Forgot that you're going to want Great Scientists for bulbing Astro, so of course you're going to be running some specialists. The capitol has plenty of food to do it too, between Sheep, Clam and two Floodplains, and being able to build Great Library. Enough happy and...sufficient health, too. Not to mention that Rep scientists are just fantastic. +6 at the cost of not generating any , it's basically like having two goldmines in any city that has a Library. Not to mention the +3 and access to Police State and Universal Suffrage. Thought there'd be enough green tiles to work instead, though.

Well, I guess that's one intention that missed the mark. I can adjust to that, though. Call it an exercise in planning where to build what wonders . Want to keep raking in the delicious failgold, after all, and I imagine you'd prefer to avoid polluting your GPP with a GE in the same city you build Great Library to churn out a couple of Great Scientists, if possible. Great Engineer wouldn't be the end of the world, though. Free Taj Mahal, for instance .

 

[krikav]

@Fippy

Spoiler :

Thank you so much for posting your progress, this is really useful for me to compare with!

I stopped at T89 (same turn as your screenshots).

It's not even funny to compare.
Sure, I didn't pay much attention to micro, but the differance here is quite insane!

My capital is 4 pop lower, my cottages are less developed I have barely started GLib and I have only a half of parthenon finished.
Only thing I have going here is another city and some more failgold...

I see that you went AH first, which makes alot of sense. I'm a moron for not going for the strong food and wasting all those workerturns early on farming floodplains >_< there is really no excuse to not go AH when there is gold to make up for the cost.

I see also that you waited with slavery switch until pyramids.
I'll have to replay up untill this turn, and see if I can learn anything!

 

[Zavior]

@Fippy After viewing your progress, I restarted the game 3 times. Still could not match it, but I'll have a few more tries

 

[Izuul]

Ohhhh CDG has always been one of my favorite leaders.

About the details map...

Spoiler :

In my experience fractal + high sea level produces lots of iso and semi-iso starts.

 

[Fippy]

Playing early turns again and again is how i automated my type of play that i have now
@krikav

Spoiler :

Yup AH is really important here imo, cap lacks early power tiles with gold adding almost nothing for settlers and workers.
I took only a bit of failgold from tgw, teched Myst before Masonry for the little bonus (and Poly, marble wonders later).

More gold from ToA, did not wait for Paris library when teching Poly.
My plan was that Paris can focus on Pyras, then granary & library + growing.
Figured it's the only city with potential, and others can do failgold now and then.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Regarding mids:

Spoiler :

I think they would be very worthwhile, the extra beakers from specialists (especially those from GLib!), we likely want to run quite a few scientists anyway to reach some bulbs early on. Usual setup is academy and 2 bulbs into astro, but I start to doubt that I'll have time for that now when I also hunt wonders&failgold.
The abundant happy-cap alows you to be sloppy and just do 1pop whips when convenient.

And later on, police state with +25% bonus on units will be a huge boon, as I suspect that it will be needed.

i have skipped plans about the mids very soon as...

Spoiler :

Rep is not really needed cause of gold and CHA and too little food & police state too far away. at that time i had already seen the whole island and decided to build GLH, Colossus and HG (because of no Agri-ressource at all). Colossus is questionable because of no copper, but an industrious guy will go for early forges anyway and so the less optimal coastal cities can gain a little bit.

 

[Tobiyogi]

IMM, NHNE. 1100 AD.
Great game so far, I think it will be my first push-over.
I am almost at gunpowder, and when it's done, I will lib chemistry and go for steel after. I have already built quite a few trebs and galleys, that will be upgraded as soon as the relevant techs are researched.

Spoiler :

During the build-up of more units, I will tech astronomy and get ready for an invasion, most likely on Pericles who has built the best wonders (besides me). I suppose that I won't even need good units as long as I can bring enough cannons and pikes to protect them. No-one is really advanced right now, Stalin is the biggest guy, he could soon vassal Shaka. Everyone is at war, I have contributed to that with some bribes.
It is even imaginable to stop teching for a while once I am at Steel. Focus on production, go to Vassalage, maybe adopt a religion and go into Theocracy as well. At the moment I am at Free Religion from Shwegady. Maybe I won't need any fancy units at all and just pump out cannons and musketeers. Oh yeah, french musketeers!

 

[Tobiyogi]

My only "problem" at the moment. I am almost at Gunpoweder and Lib, would like to bulb chemistry and lib Steel. But my great scientist is pointed out for PP. Another great engenieer could possibly build the Taj in a second, as soon as I get Nationalism. Or I just waste the two GP and start another golden age on my own, for better prodcution.

 

[lymond]

DG such a great leader in the hands of the human. Top 5 IMO. Maybe I try this on Deity

edit: Tobi, if you don't have Astro, just tech PP and bulb Chem. PP pretty cheap. Might wait until a few turns into golden age for bulb as you'll get more beakers with increased science, unless things are more urgent.

 

[yyeah]

Deity 1440 BC

Spoiler :

Iam thinking now should i go Lit or Optics ... with Mids Lit looks preety good tbh.
Interesting map btw.
But who put that mounting there

 

[Tobiyogi]

Big mistake not to LIB astro at 1100 AD. Because teching Steel and Astro without decent trade routes was purely insane. My attack date was so late that all the cards on the other continent were already played. i destroyed one AI and all the other ones were tied in vassal relations. I will have to go back to that point, lib astro, build 2-3 oberservatories and then go for the military techs. Maybe PP before.