Nobles' Club 262: Mansa Musa of Mali

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Mansa Musa of Mali, whom we last played in NC 183. The Mali start with Mining and The Wheel.

• Traits: Mansa Musa is Financial and Spiritual. Financial adds +1 to any tile that already produces at least 2. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
  
• The UB: The Mint, a Forge with +10%. A very nice bonus to have when using Binary Research - running your science slider at either 100% or 0% as much as possible to avoid losing beakers and/or gold to rounding errors - because you'll actually spend an appreciable amount of turns at 0% slider, thus getting the most out of the bonus of the Mint.
  
• The UU: The Skirmisher, an Archer with 4 and 1-2 First Strikes instead of just one. A straight upgrade for the cheapest, most consistently accessible early defensive units. In absence of any metals these guys will offer the next best protection you're going to get short of convincing Sitting Bull to spare you some of his ridiculously highly promoted units.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Continents, high sealevel, temperate climate.

Spoiler edits :

A few resource swaps were done to ensure AIs have nearby strategic resources.

Spoiler isolated? :

Not isolated.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 262 Mansa Musa Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

I can't see any reason to settle the PH 2S over the one 2E1N. More floodplains, more rivers, two visible tiles we're moving into don't seem to be useless deserts (though sending the warrior 1SW to confirm whether they're just deserts is possible), 2E1N just seems better overall. Well, could be something hiding in the fog that changes that, but obviously I'm not going to delay settling the capitol for multiple turns to find out.

Do the experts have a different opinion, or 1NE->1E it is ?

 

[SillyGoat]

I would favour the 2E 1N site for the cap. The PH 2S can be settled as an early second city, sharing the wet corn and 4 riverside cottages with the capital. Tech path Ag->BW ->Pottery (Fishing before Pottery if there's a seafood resource in the fog that we want to settled early.

Subject to change depending on what the warrior move shows. Normally I would move the warrior 3 onto the PH, but I'm tempted to see what lies in the fog around the Blue Circle.

 

[Gressulf]

Looks like a nice game, will try this one. Hopefully I can register my first win on Immortal.

Spoiler :

I settled the PH 2E1N and do not regret it. Peter is pretty close and settled right in my face. I built a small army of Skirmishers to try to deal with it, however on T65, he seems to have had a change of heart... Such a nice chap!

Spoiler Never have I ever :

 

[Pangaea]

Will start on this one, as I'm jaded or frustrated with some of the other games I'm currently playing (and am waiting for BOTM 201 as well). Mansa is a very strong leader of course, although we do often like to have him as "opponent" instead, as it makes tech trading a whole lot easier.

After firing up the save (on Immortal no huts/events), I'm fog gazing and seeing coast (waves) in the SW. Also see that the PH NE has fresh water, and fog gazing indicates the tile east of it is almost certainly a lake (doesn't look like coast). All in all, moving to the PH two east and one north looks like the best option, like other mentioned above. Since I'll do that anyway, I move the warrior NW, to see what I may miss out on.

Spoiler T0 After moves but before settling :

OMG!! That looks like a stupid good capital

Warrior revealed nothing. Except coast to the west. We also see coast to the east. Probably a small land, maybe semi-iso or something like that. Grr. Settling on that PH we're standing on has some potential downsides. It's definitely possible to kill sea food. If that happens, it happens. Maybe I'll regret it, but it's such a nice capital that it's hard to move away from the spot again (and settling on ivory has the same potential issue). Depends how evil the map-maker/map-chooser has been really.

Not a lot of forests, and we're moving away from quite a few by going to the PH, but there is a perfect city on the PH SW to grab corn, and it should be possible to take/borrow the other corn with a city further north. Jungle north of the warrior isn't the most pleasant sight, but it could also mean we have the south to ourselves. Early scouting will tell us more.

With such a strong start, maybe our neighbours are Shaka, Toku and Monty or something. Who the hell knows!?

 

[Pangaea]

Turn 60:

Spoiler :

Peter showed up in turn 1, and settled in my face early on. Later Joao popped up as well, apparently north of Peter. So early suspicion was actually correct, and we have the south to ourselves. However, that also means many barbs, and they did cause me some issues. Actually made the unusual move of going Archery on non-Deity, and am glad I did. Skirmishers are pretty strong. Somewhat messy play due to all the barb archers coming from the south, but so far it's been fine, and should be able to fan out and fog bust better now. Two barb cities have been created. They look like fine cities, but without copper nor horses, I have nothing to capture them with. Skirmishers probably won't very well with that.

Another settler out next turn, which may go down to the fish-sheep area, just north of a PH barb city. Unfortunately no food by the marble and all the calendar stuff.

Spoiler :

Will probably try a late stab at the Oracle, but expecting to lose it really. Getting a bit late. All religions have gone on the other continent so far, which sucks a bit. If I do grab Oracle, may have to opt for CoL instead of MC, just to get a religion for us. It does help.

With Ivory at least we have a war resource (long-ish term), if going down that route. But for now I'm thinking to settle the south instead, grab those barb cities unless Peter storms down now when we have open borders (and I see he has metal->Axes). Bummer he stole that nice location where St Petersburg resides, but not exactly anything you can with that in turn 20 or whatever it was. Blocked him off with the fish location, which was nice.

 

[SillyGoat]

Turn 55 Immortal, NHNE (BW but no AH)

Spoiler :

Stole a worker from Peter in time to knock two turns off the first Corn farm. Two pop whipped settler for Djene at size 4. (Worker, warrior, warrior, settler, settler) then immediately built another settler for Kumbi Saleh with the help of a pair of forest chops.
Tech path: Ag, Bronze, Hunting, Archery, Mysticism, Fishing, Pottery (just completed at end of turn 54). 4 cities, 6 workers, 3/4 surviving warriors and 3/4 Skirmishers.

Forgot to add techs to barbs at the start so cities are spawning with warriors. A barb city spawned to the south, I've lost one skirmisher attacking it and have another healing at 8/10 xp with a third enroute. Hoping to unluck the Heroic Epic and gain some capture gold. Cottage spam the core, add a few more cities down south to claim marble and the seafood and tech up. Construction and wellies or HBR and horchers will depend on horse location. IW for the gems and some metal .

Marble and likely Heroic Epic make the detour to Literature attractive. 2 remaining forests and 4 hills in Timbuktu provide enough hammers to build Great Library in good time. I'm considering a detour to Sailing and Masonry and taking a run at the Great Lighthouse in Gao. Stonehenge went late (t46) so GLH may be doable.

 

[SillyGoat]

1 AD

Spoiler :

Cottaged up, teched up to Construction and HBR and Calendar

T60 Overview:



I didn't grab a screenshot but I built the GLH in Goa. Not a huge bonus on this map so far, but it's nice to have.

Was part way through whipping out an army of elephants, cats, swords and axes when Peter DOWed with a stack of axes, spears and archers.



Note the forests:








Peter having copper units only meant the war is almost over at 1 AD:




MoM makes the Music Great Artist extra valuable so I'm heading there next. Great Library due in 7 and I'm making a half hearted attempt at the Parthenon. Wonder or failgold, either is fine.

It's looking like this is in the bag. No religion on our continent yet and the Buddhist founder (and owner of Stonehenge and Oracle) has just built the AP. I'm working on a GS to either bulb Philo or Academy in Moscow.

From here, either head up to Civil Service and then Optics or Optics and then CS. Happy cap is good so Monarchy can be delayed. Peter is the only one of us with Alphabet currently.

 

[Pangaea]

1AD as well.

Spoiler :

Tried to get the Oracle, as per the last update, but it was lost at the worst time. After we had invested in all the religious techs, but before getting any failgold to speak of. Got 16 or something like that. But after we teched to CoL the normal way and founded Confucianism, we needed Mono and then Monarchy anyway, so it wasn't a total loss. No wars in my game yet, haven't even learned HBR yet. Have focused on economic stuff instead.

Spoiler :

Took a long while, but I've now uncovered the whole land to our south, and it was bigger than I thought. The barb city Bactrian has been flipped. Hoped to snag it after Peter suicided some units, but he didn't do enough damage. But 5-ish turns later it flipped anyway. Am building some swords to deal with the other barb city to the SE. Just founded another city there as well, kinda awkwardly placed, and another settler is en route for that location way east. Heaps of barb galleys though, so that's a problem. I've seen five (!). And we don't know how to build triremes yet.

The economy is in a pretty good shape I think, with 333 from 10 cities. Buro helps of course with such a strong capital, but that was only reached 10-ish turns ago (before the trip up to Music). Parthenon will probably only be for failgold, but we have chopped out Great Library and the Mausollos. GLib was built in foodless Awdaghost simply because it had the forests for it, but think I'll put NEpic in the former barb city of Bactrian. Rather late without a library, but it does have access to 3 food sources, albeit not great ones, and a few grasslands.

Many cottages up north by the nice rivers, and some of them are towns already.

Three shrines, four religions (plus Hindu AP) and heaps of wonders have gone on the other continent. Plus one GG, so not all of them get along. Feels like a won game, though, with such a strong economy. Joao will get longbows any moment, but it may have been possible to stab Peter in the back. Don't think I will though. Haven't set up for military production yet (only 2-3 barracks and no HBR). Diplo may be feasible here, as Joao and Peter should eventually become Friendly. Not sure what to do yet, but it's probably time to grab MC plus Optics and then head up to Lib. Find out what the others are up to. With so many Great Prophets, I suspect Egypt is over there. Maybe they have our other foot

 

[Pangaea]

Smallish update with contact and map knowledge. Currently 680AD.

Spoiler :

Getting to Optics was faster than I thought, and we got it in 275AD. Didn't cold whip caravels, so two turns later they start travelling. Long distance, but eventually made contact with Gilgamesh and bought his map. He shares land with Elizabeth, and she's doing quite well. The others are cavemen. Bit later we locate the lovable Toku. Thought he was isolated (harr-harr) due to being so hilariously far off techwise, but it didn't quite make sense given the GG I spotted earlier. Turns out Toku shares land with Ramesses, and Toku DOWed him earlier (not much can have happened). It's now 680AD, and Toku DOWed him again. Not the best idea with catas and HAs against longbows, but you go boy!! Toku is the only one so far without Feudalism.

Hurt a little to whip the capital, but I wanted a little overflow into Oxford. Slower without stone, but meh. Will be good once it's done.

Spoiler :

Have a bunch of gold already, and Oxford will take a while. Hoped to regain that forested tile ages ago, but it keeps sitting at 50-51% Russian, so maybe won't be able to chop it. Will tech PPress now I think, then put the GS into Astro. Maybe finish Astro once Oxford is done. Don't feel like waiting although it's probably the most efficient.

Peter has actually teched pretty fast and have done the "wrong" things in following my path up towards Lib. Only lacks Education now. Hopefully I'll be able to to Lib something like Communism, but may have to resort to SciMethod if I see he can tech Lib.

Elizabeth has a bunch of wonders, including GLH and Colossus, which explains her nice pace. As suspected there was indeed an Egyptian civ on the map, and Ramesses has three shrines + AP. Both Ramesses and especially Elizabeth sit on stupid amounts of money, that I've not been able to get my hands on yet.

It was very tempting to go for something military upon seeing all those cavemen, but think I'll try Diplo instead. Opponent is likely to be Joao, but as long as Peter is more friendly towards me than him (they're currently pleased), he should vote for me. Maybe I can get some of the others to vote for me instead. Have a GS I'd like to put into Astro, and the spare GA for launching a MoM-fueled GA. Can hopefully get some more GSs then, to bulb towards Mass Media. No GE for the UN and unlikely to get one, but maybe it won't be too bad once in State Property and with some workshops up.

 

[Pangaea]

Went for Diplo. Win in 1300AD.

Spoiler :

Maybe a little late to start the Golden Ages, but I got out a few GS in time, plus two GMs. Didn't really need all the money (1700+1900 ), but it meant I could build Research instead of Wealth, and didn't need more Great Scientists after bulbs into Astro, SciMethod, Physics, Electricity and later Chemistry. Libbed Radio, which I was pleased about. Looked dodgy earlier, but Peter and Joao kept away from Education for long enough. Went back for Communism and Biology afterwards. Never got a GE for building the UN, so it took a while, but Golden Age + State Property workshops helped. Had some 3rd ring forests too.

I'd say this is a proper Diplo win. Most advanced military units were 4 swordsmen.

Spoiler :

That's a spike and a half I did wonder where Elizabeth put that giant stack of money...

Spoiler :

Toku wasn't Ramesses' biggest fan. DOWed him three times No cities changed hands, which surprised me given how backwards Toku was for a long time, but they kept dying outside each other's cities.

Could have expanded faster to the toe of the leg (our continent) faster had I known it was so large over there. I thought the land looked more like further north. Put down a bunch of workshops over there. Have kinda forgotten how incredible these FIN-windmills are once you get the proper techs. Especially during golden ages

Thanks for the map. Good fun, despite no warfare at all. Well, some barbs died!

 

[Gumbolt]

Taking break from Mongolian game.

Spoiler 250ad :

So settled on the plains hill 2E1N.
Stole a worker off Moscow.

Techs AG/Hunting/archery/pottery /fishing/writing/AH/maths/sailing/masonry/Calendar/construction/HBR/Alphabets/Icurrency.

Captured Moscow 1960BC with Skirmishers. Lost 4 skirmishers. Captured his one other city. Considered going for JoaII but too far away for skirmishers.

At this point I rexxed a bit up to about 10 cities.

250bc or so I had catapults/skirmishers/1-2 axes. So declared on JoaII who had 9 cities. By 1ad I had captured 3 cities. Eventually added War elephants a few turns later. Was a long trek to his capital. He had 15-20 units or so near his capital. 13-14 in city when I attacked. 250ad and his capital (Stonehenge (Still lack myst but I have monuments everywhere!! lol) and mids). Switched to rep for happiness) and another coastal city taken down. He has 4 cities left and no metal. I have 33% of map population now. With 23% of land. Just captured 2 barb cites too.

Likely need to settle a few more cities here once JoaII is dead. I could use those furs.

Overall fun game with Skirmishers. For 25 hammers great value

Killed about 80 units and lost 28 or so. I expected to lose some skirmishers. Suprisingly good mop up units after catapults.

 

[Gumbolt]

Couldn't quite match Pangaea date.
1380ad domination.

Spoiler The finish :

After taking out JoaII i set about rebuilding economy and getting astronomy and MT. I was a bit slow to this. Once I got my army going I had at it's peak about 70-80 cuirs. I did one golden age before the war. Hadn't done much with great people. Managed 1-2 bulbs. Not that kind of map or leader.

Did the maths and figured I only need to wipe out 2 Ai here. Could I of done it quicker taking 3 vassals? I think I likely had 3-4% land spare,

Sumerians had a 30 strong stack in the field. Of which 10 catapults died when my stack of cuirs found and flanked them. He had 9 cities as he had taken 2 or so English cities.

Completely wiped out English too. No real stack. Was never going to hold back 30-40 or so cuirs.

Other 2 AI stuck on 6 cities the biggest risk was AP.

 

[konata_LS]

Both leader and map are good for people who just moved up in difficulty: FIN is certainly strong while SPI offers a large flexibility under most circumstances. I'm not saying SPI is the best trait, but SPI is just my personal favourite trait.

Mansa's starting techs are decent, though none of his starting techs is food tech. But the wet corn in this map would compensate it. Agri-pottery-BW looks like a decent path... unless the warrior finds something else .

Spoiler :

Settings as below. No huts.


Settle on the PH 2E1N. Research Agri-hunting-Pot-BW. Seeing there was no Copper nearby, self-tech Archery. Met Peter and Joao. Didn't go to Eleputs Peter, as scouting revealed that there were only three on our continent. If Peter disappeared, Joao wouldn't trade tech at all. Another reason to keep Peter alive for a while was I could at least build 8 cities towards south. Besides, Peter had some nice dyes and grasslands under jungle. Since Peter got Exp cheap workers, I preferred to let Peter's workers clean the jungle and build plantations for me then send my Cuirs to "take over" these improved tiles .

Our continent remained "atheist" for more than 4000 years . All the religions were founded in a distant place. Gifted a city to Peter to keep him at pleased. Got Joao to pleased through HR and giving tribute.


Since the 4 unknown AIs had 6 different religions, it was not surprising to see some GGs born in a far way land :


After Optics, met Toku who just made peace with Ramsy. Ramsy built AP, so I opened border with Egypt. Toku was annoyed with me, but a dozen of turns later he was forced to open border with me by AP resolutions as AP religion was spread to one of my cities.


Attack with Cuirs. Wiped Peter out. Joao capitulated with Theology on T228.


As shown in the picture above, AIs were slowed down by their religious conflicts. When I met Lizzy, she already capitulated to Giggle. Toku declared on Ramsy again but ended up capitulating to Ramsy .


Research Astro, Rifling, MScience and Steel. Built Rifles, Grens, Cannons and updated most of surviving Cuirs to Cavs. Built a fleet for sending my units to conquer Giggle and Lizzy. Giggle capitulated soon after Lizzy broke free from him (Giggle's PRO Rifles were really annoying). Lizzy cap on T283.


T286 Domination:


FIN + SPI is really a strong combo, no matter in AI's or in humans' hand. Even after the long wars, Mansa could still hold a tech lead, at least on the difficulty level I'm playing.


Built many units and lost many of them, as always

IMHO, this map teaches good habits for people who are still learning, as there are many riverside tiles but no gem/gold in capital, so the players must think about cottage early. Capital gem or gold is surely cool, but it may lead some players to neglect cottage during the early game. Plus, Mansa's UBs shine under 100% , which turns this map into a good practice of binary research for new players. Thanks for the map .

 

[pigswill]

Looks like a fun map. Noble marathon.

Spoiler :

Forgot that autoraze was active and destroyed Russia by accident T7. Darn, should have waited for him to hit pop2 ?T23, he would have a defending warrior by then but I could have built a couple more myself before he got his second warrior. (PH+elephants)
Edit: replayed from start following exploration moves, even started building a worker before explorer found Russia borders, then swopped to warrior. Anyway, captured Moscow T27, defended by one warrior, I lost a warrior but got a city and 60g. Noble marathon is very cheesy but very tasty (like civ pizza).