Nobles' Club 274: Hatshepsut of Egypt

Emperor no huts - Turns 0-50 love me some war chariots
Spoiler :


Warrior moved 1W to PH and saw cow.. settled 1W which turned out to be on the horses :crazyeye:

Well mine as well rush Korea since he was so close.. was finally hoping for an early worker steal but alas he founded Hinduism and the border pops thwarted me. Worker->War Chariot->War Chariot(whip)->War Chariot->Barracks(whip @19h)->War Chariot->War Chariot->War Chariot->Granary(whip @29h)->Settler

Tech-> AH:goodjob:->Mining->BW->Pottery->Writing

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Probably should have whipped into a Worker like I originally thought but wanted to get the southern PH cottage helper city up ASAP. Thinking run at Oracle but definitely need to work on happiness.

 
Spoiler Emperor, 1705 AD T251, the Northward War :

I ended my war against Wang Kon's Korea in 1260 AD T186. My 12 cities are the largest civ on the map. 6 of these 12 are conquests: Susa from Cyrus; Vandal from the barbs; and Pusan, Seoul, Wonsan, Pyongyang from Wang Kon. I grabbed Feudalism, Theology, and Metal Casting in the peace treaty, but I am still 4 techs behind Wang Kon, and at least 5 techs behind the other civs. Hannibal is the only leader to never be in a war, but he claimed much land to my east, and has the second-largest civ. Genghis is the only other leader to conquer cities: he took Bombay from Asoka and Tarsus from Cyrus, so they both capitulated to Genghis.

I never adopted civics after Slavery, until now in T186. I want to limit my anarchy to 1 turn, but I forget that Hatshepsut is Spiritual, so we never have any anarchy. I exit slavery and adopt 4 civics. Hereditary Rule does nothing now (while my cities have +8 happy from resources), but will help with city growth. Vassalage would have been good during the war, but I didn't unlock it until this turn; it lowers the cost of maintaining my large army. Caste System unlocks scientist specialists without libraries; I want it because I have 12 cities and only 5 libraries. Organized Religion unlocks missionaries without monasteries; I will spread Buddhism (for gold from the Mahabodhi) and Hinduism (for Apostolic Palace votes).

Hannibal claims in T186, "We have enough on our hands right now." I fear that Hannibal's hands hold a plan to attack me; I have 2 War Chariots searching Carthage for a war stack. My cities nearest Hannibal are producing a War Elephant and a Stable. I have 3 cities on Buddhist Missionary, 1 on Market, 1 on Lighthouse, 1 on Moai Statues, and 4 on Wealth.

My biggest need is to keep all 12 cities, but between T186 and 1270 AD T187, "Wonsan has revolted and joined the Khmer Empire!" I'm down to 11, and Suryavarman, who started the war on Korea but never got a city, now gets a city. I never restored order in Wonsan after I conquered it from Korea. The red fist continued from the Korean resistance to the 1st Khmer revolt and now this 2nd Khmer revolt. The loss of Wonsan is a surprise. It is 4 tiles from the nearest Cambodian cities, and I expected any revolts to be Korean, not Khmer. (Wonsan has more Korean culture than Khmer culture, but is far from the last Korean cities.)

I spread Buddhism with a new trick. (It is new to me, but I learned it from this forum.) I run each missionary across a border and give the unit to a foreign civ. The AI leaders then use their missionaries to Buddhify their cities. By T188, Buddhism is the largest religion in the game, and the Mahabodhi doubles in value from 14 to 28 gold per turn. In T251, the Mahabodhi yields 39 gold per turn.

Between T187 and T188, I accept Hannibal's demand to stop trading with Asoka, and refuse Wang Kon's plea to become my vassal. Between T204 and T205, Hannibal declares war on Wang Kon, as his war stack advances on Cheju; so in 1450 AD T205, I declare again on Wang Kon (and grab 2 of his Workers). In T206, I become the 3rd civ with Nationalism, and trade it to Hannibal for Machinery and Paper.

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I sacrifice 3 War Elephants to conquer Namp'o (12th, 1510 AD T212).

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I pay 910 gold in tribute to Genghis in 1512 AD T215, while Genghis is warring Suryavarman. (The 910 gold includes some gold from looting Namp'o and failing the Taj Mahal; I had been jumping between 0% and 100% science.) The tribute slows my research. My renaissance civ is still using classical War Elephants and Catapults to attack Wang, and would lose a war against Genghis or Hannibal. This war is easier than the last war. Hannibal distracts Wang while I attack Wang's longbows in cities. I conquer Wang's last continental city, Inch'on (13th, 1535 AD T217). Hannibal has conquered 2 other cities.

I would make peace, but Wang refuses to give Engineering, and I refuse to take only Compass. Korea is still alive, because Wang settled Ulsan on an island north of Pyongyang. Hannibal can't reach Ulsan, but I chop around Pusan and build 3 Galleys there. Wang sinks a Galley, but I sink his Caravel, build another Galley, ferry units from Pusan to Ulsan, conquer Ulsan (14th, 1610 AD T232), gain Ulsan's overseas trade route, end my Northward War, and erase Korean culture from the map.
I believe that Wang's Korea and my Egypt had the most vulnerable positions in the middle of the continent, so I am happy to see the implosion of Korea, instead of my civ.

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The long war between Genghis and Suryavarman sees its first city captures between T231 and T232, as Suryavarman takes Bombay from Genghis, and Cyrus takes Wonsan from Suryavarman. Genghis, without Bombay, now can't reach Suryavarman from his cities. I fear that Genghis will make peace with Suryavarman, then attack me. I would adopt Nationhood and draft Macemen, but Cyrus (vassal of Genghis) would crush me with his Cuirassiers. The peace happens between T233 and T234; Suryavarman returns Bombay to Genghis.

I get Constitution and Gunpowder in 1645 AD T239. Genghis claims, "We have enough on our hands now." Those hands probably hold a war against my Egypt. I might use Constitution to adopt Representation (to add beakers to my Caste System's scientists) or to build Jails (to switch my economy from beakers to espionage). I have no Jails, so I go for beakers. I exit Slavery and Vassalage and adopt Representation and Nationhood. I begin to draft Musketmen and produce more Musketmen. I rank 1st in food and 1st in production, but Genghis has 2 times my power, and Genghis plus his vassals (Cyrus and Asoka) have 3 times my power.

I speed toward Democracy after I accept Asoka's offer to pay 720 gold for my Printing Press. I had avoided trading with Asoka (worst enemy of Suryavarman), but I accept this trade, because I need to advance my civ before Genghis crushes it. Then on T245, I switch all 14 cities to Research, and change a few wrong specialists to scientists. This is just enough to finish Democracy on 1680 AD T246. I trade Democracy to Cyrus to get Guilds, Engineering, and Compass. The trade happens just in time. I see Genghis's war stack.

Genghis has 11 Knights, 7 War Elephants, among other units, just outside my border on T246. They might attack my city of Westephant. I attach 2 Great Generals to War Chariots, and spend a Great Prophet to start my 1st golden age (of 12 turns with the Mausoleum of Mausolos). I end turn, and Genghis declares war (1685 AD T247)!

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For the first time, someone declares war on me. The other leaders were cautious or annoyed at me for most of the game, but I never picked a state religion; so Hindu Suryavarman declared on Buddhist Wang, and other leaders declared on civs with different religions, until now. The present war is 3 versus 1, as Genghis brings his vassals Asoka and Cyrus against me. To my west, Cyrus moves his stack out of Wonsan toward my Seoul. To my south, Genghis moves toward Westephant. Between T250 and T251, Genghis conquers Westephant (and unplugs my only source of ivory). I attack Westephant in 1705 AD T251 with Catapults and War Elephants, and slay some of Genghis's units, but can't liberate the city.

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This war might decide whether I win the game. I predict that Genghis will attack Shroom City, my capital, and site of Egypt's Heroic Epic. If Genghis conquers Shroom City, then I expect to lose the game. If I keep Shroom City, then I might recover Westephant and win the game (if Suryavarman or Hannibal don't outrun me to victory). There is good news: I continue to rank 1st in food and production, and I am near equal with Genghis in power (after becoming the only civ to adopt Nationhood and draft units).

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There is bad news: I lost several Musketmen at Westephant, and might have too few defenders in Shroom City. My golden age ends in 7 turns. Genghis is switching from Knights to Cuirassiers. Genghis's vassals, Asoka and Cyrus, might make bigger attacks later, but for now Asoka has too few units, and Cyrus's attack on Seoul might be failing. I don't know whether I win the war!
 
Noble Marathon 1000bc
Spoiler In the beginning :

Moved warrior 1W onto PH T0, saw cows, settled capital 1W to get two food in capital. Started AH because with Nobles Club you're guaranteed to have a strategic resource in or near starting location. T6 I had a brain posterior eructation and declared on Wang Kon completely forgetting that city razing was active, two turns later autorazed Seoul :eek: :blush:. I reloaded t6 and played more sensibly :blush:.
Once AH was in I discovered I'd settled on horses: War beckoned. Captured Seoul 2860, Persepolis 2665 and Karakorum. Meanwhile I built Great Wall c 2200bc because even though barbs aren't a major threat on Noble they can be a bloomin' nuisance. Apart from that fairly peaceful expansion with a slight diversion to capture Delhi (double holy city).i quickly nabbed me Pyramids 1610bc switched to rep Small amount of failgold, Oracled currency 1360 with more failgold (c 850g) to subsidise research. Used obelisk to get a Prophet who got sacrificed for a Hindu Shrine (simple Prophet and loss calculation).

Now researching CS Breaking even on 101 bpt -1gpt. Got 13 cities so city maintenance is quite high already but courthouses are expensive. With pangea high sea level there's not much land for cities without tripping domination so no going crazy with 40 cities on this map.

Sury's annoying me by settling close to my borders, Hannibal's annoyed me by building Glight (even if its not a must-have wonder on Pangea). Might build a stack and go for a major raze-athon.
 
Noble Marathon 600ad
Spoiler The bit in the middle :

Up to 600ad, one turn from liberalism, got scimeth via chemistry, have to decide between Communism and Biology, probably take Biology. Wiped out Hannibal, Sury down to one island city. Built HG, MoM and Colossus. Completed Oxford in Capital. Building Notre Dame.
22 Cities (58% land). 864bpt -6 gpt.
Progress is slow.
 
@pigswill

Spoiler :

Are you going for space? because you're so close to Domination but you halted the military expansion.

Biology seems a good choice, because it provides extra :food: (so you can change some farms into workshops) and it's required for Refrigeration - Superconductor - Genetics.

But I'm not sure if building Labs helps a faster Space victory under Marathon speed. Some people said Refrigeration slows you down while another one said Labs are worthwhile :crazyeye:.
 
@ konata LS
Spoiler :

I am indeed going for space and one of the basics is to expand asap to just below domination limit. I read through the thread and indeed cost/benefit is complicated and refrig or computers for fibre optics is only one of the balances to consider.
Another issue I'm pondering is how quickly I need astronomy for physics>electricity>radio because astronomy obsoletes Colossus. If you delay astronomy you delay computers because radio is a pre-req, you also delay industrialism because electricity is a pre-req. On the other hand astronomy opens up observatories which give an extra scientist slot, irrelevant if you're running caste but quite relevant if you're running slavery. But then you lose 1 commerce per water tile if you obsolete Colossus.
You don't need computers for superconductors but you do need computers or laser for fibre-optics.
There are very few techs you don't need for space race so its more a matter of deciding the optimum sequence. Refrigeration is one of the techs you can ignore but its available earlier in the tech tree than computers which means you can get to build labs earlier (assuming you have the pre-req observatories). Refrigeration also enables supermarkets for a health boost and that depends on whether you've gone for coal plants or waited for Three Gorges Dam. Labs of course give a bonus to spaceship construction so you also need to consider how many of your cities will be involved in spaceship construction depending on whether you built the parts sequentially or simultaneously. That depends on how many heavy production (100hpt+) cities you have.
Overall it gets very complicated very quickly. and maybe its map and game dependent which means there are very few unconditional rules. (Expanding asap to just below domination limit is probably one of the few fixed rules).
 
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Noble Marathon 1295ad
Spoiler The beginning of the end :

No new cities but cities have grown, progress remains slow, with GA still only generating 3000 bpt, Health has been a huge issue so not only did I go for refrigeration for supermarkets, I also went for early genetics. Finished rocketry just now, once I've got indust I'll start on Apollo. Built Broadway and Eiffel in anticipation of happy problems once ivory and whales become obselete. Major noob error, I spread Confu, switched to OR but forgot to adopt confu as SR for ages :blush: .
 
I retire from my game; normalized score = 5586
I attach my saved game!

This is my 1st and only game at Emperor difficulty, and now counts as a loss. I reached 14 cities and became the largest civ on the map, but I got stuck in my last war. My enemy declared war in 1685 AD T247, while I had 14 cities. I retire in 1819 AD T139, in the same war, and with the same 14 cities. I want to leave this map and play somewhere else. If I ever come back here, I might restart from the beginning.

Spoiler Emperor, a war of Cavalry, 1819 AD T319 :

My Egypt became the largest civ on the map after I conquered cities in the Southward War (against Cyrus of Persia), the Westward War (against Wang Kon of Korea), and the Northward War (also against Wang). Now Genghis of Mongolia, and his vassals Cyrus and Asoka, are attacking me. Genghis conquered my city of Westephant in 1705 AD T251.

In past games, I was bad at fighting wars, but in recent games, I became better. In this game, I adopted Nationhood and drafted Musketmen. I packed Musketmen into 4 cities (from west to east) Seoul, Westephant, Sweetpaper, Susa.

Genghis conquered Westephant, the city closest to Mongolia. Cyrus would attack Sweetpaper or Susa, but at the start of the war, Cyrus's stack was in Wonsan (on my border with Suryavarman's Cambodia) and moved from Wonsan to attack Seoul. In the next turns, Cyrus fails to conquer Seoul. I adopt Free Market (1725 T255), skipping Mercantilism. Genghis makes some mistakes. He loses some Cuirassiers near Sweetpaper. He tries to attack my muskets on the hill by Westephant, but loses several units and all his Trebuchets. I soon attack Westephant from the hill.

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I slay Genghis's stack and liberate Westephant (1730 T256). Genghis and I both learn Rifling. I move west from Westephant to secure Seoul. Cyrus's last 4 attackers have accumulated promotions like Combat V and March by slaying my units in Seoul. I conquer Wonsan (1765 T263) from Cyrus, but liberate it to Suryavarman. I slay Cyrus's attacking units. The slow Asoka moves units near my Pyongyang (north of Seoul) only after Cyrus's units have died. I slay Asoka's invasion in T265 and T266.

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I get a good surprise in 1780 AD T266, as Suryavarman volunteers to become my vassal, and I accept. This is a surprise, because Suryavarman is willingly joining my war, and also because I had quit Suryavarman's favorite civic. I had dropped Organized Religion and reverted to Paganism to save gold, but I had forgotten that Suryavarman likes Organized Relgion. My new vassal looks strong enough to fight Asoka to my west, while I fight Genghis and Cyrus to my south. I tell Suryavarman to research Electricity and attack Bombay (the city that Genghis had taken from Asoka).

I seem to be winning the war, but I fail to notice that Genghis and Cyrus have produced more units. Genghis wasted so many espionage points that I can see his cities, but I don't see his units move through Cyrus's Persia to attack me. In T266, I find a large stack from Genghis outside my city of Susa. I gather 4 Riflemen, 5 Musketeers, and 5 Pikemen to defend the city...

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...but it isn't enough. Genghis and Cyrus both have Cavalry, but I don't unlock Cavalry until 1795 AD T269 (when I get Military Tradition). Genghis attacks in T267 and conquers Susa in T268; I lose my Moai Statues. Then Cyrus attacks in T272 and conquers Sweetpaper in T273. I slay Cyrus's stack and retake Sweetpaper in 1806 AD T273. Genghis keeps his stack, and I can't retake Susa until I produce more Trebuchets.

My new vassal, Suryavarman, conquers Bombay (after I end my turn) in 1814 AD T277. Genghis moves his stack by Sweetpaper, but I attack them. My Cavalry get enough wins to damage Genghis's Trebuchets by flanking. Because the Trebuchets are damaged, Genghis botches his attack on Sweetpaper. The survivors in his stack are all wounded; I slay them in T279 with obsolete Pikemen or anyone who can move. Now Genghis wants to return Susa for peace, but I want more, so I continue the war. I adopt Free Religion in 1836 AD T288, while Genghis forms his next stack in Susa, where it is vulnerable to my Trebuchets. I retake Susa in 1842 AD T291. After this, I exceed Genghis in power.

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On the power graph, my yellow line rose after 1645 AD, as I drafted Musketmen. My yellow met Genghis's brown as we fought at Westephant. Genghis fell when I retook Westephant in 1730 AD, but Genghis climbed a peak by producing Cavalry. Cyrus's blue line fell in 1806 AD, then Genghis fell off his peak in 1814 AD, as I won battles at Sweetpaper. Genghis and I were about equal until I retook Susa (at the right edge of the graph).

I continue to slay units from Genghis (and a few from Cyrus) as they invade my Egypt. I had told Suryvarman to attack Asoka's Paliputra; he conquers Paliputra in 1848 AD T294. He controls the Apostolic Palace, but he has never proposed anything other than a Diplomatic Victory. Cyrus often got more votes, but in T295, Suryavarman is the only candidate. No other civ votes for him.

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If I win the war, then Genghis and everyone but Hannibal would be my vassals. If Genghis capitulates before T325, I might take the AP residency, but I wouldn't get the victory. Suryavarman can't vote for me (only for himself), and Hannibal wouldn't vote for me. If Hannibal builds the United Nations, then I might get a UN victory; else I would try for a Domination Victory.

My stack of Riflemen, Cavalry, and Trebuchets, with a medic War Chariot (Cao Cao), move south from Sweetpaper to attack Cyrus's city of Pasargadae. They survive a few attacks from Cyrus (who now has Cannons) and stop to bombard Pasargadae. My stack would be more than large enough to conquer Pasargadae, reducing Cyrus from 3 to 2 cities, and unplug his horses; but Genghis produces more Cavalry. After I end my turn in 1866 AD T304, Genghis's Cavalry run along their roads and attack my stack. Then Cyrus slays the survivors. I lose all my Trebuchets to flanking damage. I lose the entire stack.

I try to gather a new stack in Sweetpaper, including my own Cannons, but after 15 turns, I still haven't recovered my power. In 1898 AD T319, Cyrus reveals Artillery.

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I have the same 14 cities in 1898 AD T319 as I did in 1685 AD T247, when Genghis declared war. I have failed to conquer any more cities. I now want to have made peace in 1818 AD T279 (when Genghis offered to return Susa), and developed my economy. Most of my cities were building Cavalry. I have no Markets, Grocers, Banks, nor Universities; but such buildings might have carried my Egypt into the industrial era. I have only recently entered the industrial era (when I learned Steel for Cannons), but Hannibal is one era ahead of me. Hannibal (the orange civ in the northeast) is 1st in score, and has 3 cities above 22000 culture; 3 at 50000 would be a Cultural Victory.

My Egypt has 2 big advantages: we have the largest land area (with 14 cities), and we are the only civ to adopt Nationhood (so we can draft Riflemen). I had wanted to use these advantages to conquer cities and loot gold, but I failed to do so. In 1898 AD, I retire from the game with a normalized score of 5586. Hannibal might get his Cultural Victory, but I don't want to wait for him to do so.
 

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