Nobles' Club L: Augustus Caesar of Rome

[vranasm]

just a quick report before i get to bed.

Monarch to 1808 would love some criticism (esp. from you drlake)

Spoiler :

After the success with Incas the plan was to consolidate a bit and quickly build army for Dutches.

So first thing was give order to build cannon to every reasonable city (build time under 5 turns, actually i did the command everywhere and then corrected...not wise). After 3-4 turns I realized that dutches tech Assembly Line like mad. They had like 10 turns to finish.
I was in the middle of preparations though :-(, but took the risk, I really had big army of cavalry, cuirasser, some BC catapults and praetorians...In the time I got like 5 cannons. Built some grens because of Dutches having rifles, but they were non factor in first 4 turns of war.

I took border city and cap of dutches before he got assembly line (the first screenshot is praetorians owning enemy defense at 1808AD...I hope it will amuse someone as much as me).
Then were 2 cities left on our continent, that were capped in 4 turns. The new cap was impressive defensed with 4 infantrys in the time i reduced defense to 0%. but 5 cannons after wave of 5 catapults were too much even for such defensive force...i cleaned up with cavalrys.
To my bad it wasnt enough to capitulate Willem :-( he has enough cities overseas, so I took what I could... basically just gold, neither of democracy x electricity he wanted to give for peace.

That brings us... drum, drum... i still am not sure how to finish, but the more we are closer to end I think I will just stick with space race, it will be challenge on it's own, because the AI's at Monarch are capable and I can't have good military edge when warring, it's beyond my abilities.
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[drlake]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

Love the late Praet use!

I had the same problem with Willem - he wouldn't cap once I cleared him off the continent. My understanding is that no AI will cap if they don't share a land border with you, regardless of how bad the war is going for them. One solution to that is to wait out the peace, build up some ships, and take one of his island cities (where he has another city on the island). Doing that might get him to cap. I eventually just wiped him out, though.

Zara should be pretty easy for you, depending on techs. He doesn't build many units, and since he apparently liberated his overseas cities (I assume that is where the English came from) you can either wipe him out or try to cap him. Vassal mechanics are kinda wonky when it comes to capitulation. I saw an AI capitulate to another AI once and its vassals also became vassals of the victorious civ. You could try to accomplish that.

For victory options, your best bets are diplomatic and domination. I should say "diplomatic", since the essence of the strategy at this point is to vassal enough civs to win a UN vote, once it is built. Your relations with the other main civs aren't good enough that they are likely to vote for you, unless they like Hammurabi even less.

For domination, after you finish teching Fascism (for the GG, I assume) tech Flight and then work on Radio. Build up a fleet of several Destroyers and Transports. Keep building Infantry and Cannons (if you have enough of a tech lead on Sitting Bull, build 3 promo Cavalry, give them Combat 2 and Amphibious, and go cap him).

Cap order is Dutch > Ethiopia (can do before Dutch, if you need to build the ships first) > English > Native Americans > Japanese > Byzantines. If that doesn't get you to Domination (and it may not), then work on Hammurabi and Persia.

I found this a fun map to play, and good practice at modern war amphibious invasions. Air support ftw!

 

[4077 Mash]

My understanding is that no AI will cap if they don't share a land border with you, regardless of how bad the war is going for them.

In my game (posted above), I got a capitulation from someone not sharing a land border. And I am sure I have done it in other games to acheive a conquest victory. Does this depend on difficulty setting?

Specifically:

Spoiler :

I invaded Toku, who was on a different continent, and after razing one city, and headed towards another, he capitulated.

 

[CivilizedTiger]

I don't think the capitulation only with shared land borders thing is correct. I also got one of the AIs in this game to capitulate despite not sharing a land border. Actually, he wouldn't even consider yielding until I drove him completely off the continent. (and it's the same AI vranasm is talking about )

 

[drlake]

Hmmm, that's odd. The AI we're talking about was willing to cap to me as long as he had a city on the same continent, but when I tried to cap him after taking everything but island cities he wouldn't any more until he was down to one city. At that point, I didn't see much point in capping him...

I forget where I read that about shared borders and capitulation, but it had seemed to be true.

 

[vranasm]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

Love the late Praet use!

I had the same problem with Willem - he wouldn't cap once I cleared him off the continent. My understanding is that no AI will cap if they don't share a land border with you, regardless of how bad the war is going for them. One solution to that is to wait out the peace, build up some ships, and take one of his island cities (where he has another city on the island). Doing that might get him to cap. I eventually just wiped him out, though.

Zara should be pretty easy for you, depending on techs. He doesn't build many units, and since he apparently liberated his overseas cities (I assume that is where the English came from) you can either wipe him out or try to cap him. Vassal mechanics are kinda wonky when it comes to capitulation. I saw an AI capitulate to another AI once and its vassals also became vassals of the victorious civ. You could try to accomplish that.

For victory options, your best bets are diplomatic and domination. I should say "diplomatic", since the essence of the strategy at this point is to vassal enough civs to win a UN vote, once it is built. Your relations with the other main civs aren't good enough that they are likely to vote for you, unless they like Hammurabi even less.

For domination, after you finish teching Fascism (for the GG, I assume) tech Flight and then work on Radio. Build up a fleet of several Destroyers and Transports. Keep building Infantry and Cannons (if you have enough of a tech lead on Sitting Bull, build 3 promo Cavalry, give them Combat 2 and Amphibious, and go cap him).

Cap order is Dutch > Ethiopia (can do before Dutch, if you need to build the ships first) > English > Native Americans > Japanese > Byzantines. If that doesn't get you to Domination (and it may not), then work on Hammurabi and Persia.

I found this a fun map to play, and good practice at modern war amphibious invasions. Air support ftw!

Spoiler :

good advice as always, thanks
The think is I started to build destroyers fleet, but in the war against Dutches I somehow lost access to oil... Will really have to check where it is :-D. So that will mean Ethiopia first.
English are teching Assembly though (probably for Zara) so the time frame is not much long to attack him.
Sitting Bull and Toku should be veeery easy once i get some transports loaded with cav, because they seem from tech screen very far behind.
Hammu is question, he seems strong, but I already thought about bombers, but for using them you need cap some stronghold on other continent, so it will not be easy.

As I understand it you're closing Space Victory out of my reach? It's because I don't have significant tech lead? From looking and the amount of workshops I have built I was thinking that building space parts shouldnt last much long, the techs could be problem, but I think in peace time I could get over 1k beakers/turn.

And I think I should definitely more trade for "world map" it's so late and I still don't know how it looks by enemy.

 

[drlake]

@vranasm

Spoiler :

Your oil well probably got taken out by Dutch espionage. He did that to me, too.

You can take Zara easily even if he gets Assembly Line in time, since you should have more troops and he won't upgrade his existing troops that quickly. I think I was going after him at about the same time as you are, and most of his troops were still Longbows and Musketmen. Just recon his cities to make sure, but I'm guessing that is what you'll find.

Note that you can base aircraft in the cities of a vassal. I used Justinian's cities for Bomber bases when I went after Hammurabi. That, plus 3 Carriers filled with Fighters, provided plenty of air support.

I don't normally go for Space if I can do something else, since it requires a lot of turns to tech that far. You should be able to do that if you want, though, since you should be able to maintain a tech lead.

And yes, trade for maps. You may need to throw in some cash with your map to get theirs, but it's worth it at this stage.

 

[Ichthys163]

Still trying to get the hang of noble, so feedback would be much appreciated

Noble/Normal speed.

4000BC - Settle in place. Looks like a good spot. Multiple food tiles, nice green areas.

975 BC

Spoiler :

Screen

Spoiler :

I founded Antium first, it is going to be my unit production city.
Cumae came next, to get the Iron. Immediately after I settled it I thought settling 1S1W would have been a better option.
I'm not sure what I intend to do with Neopolis, my reason for founding there was to stop another Civ getting too close.
I intend to Praet rush someone. At this stage I haven't decided who though.

500AD

Spoiler :

Screen

Spoiler :

Destroyed the Mayans. Pascal's capital had Stonehenge, so I kept it. Razed his other two cities. 3 Praets were enough to steamroll him.
Consolidated for a bit, and then Huanya Capac started encroaching on my territory. Naturally I taught him a lesson by razing one of his border cities and then taking his capital. I was spread a bit thin after that, so I made peace, getting Aesthetics along the way.
HC's captial has the Great Wall, Temple of Artemis and a Scotland Yard.
At this stage I'm not sure whether I'll try and finish HC right away, or consolidate a bit more. I can build the Heroic Epic once I've got the tech. My economy is not too great either. Statues of Zeus build is for the fail gold since I've got Ivory, not sure whether to complete the Parthenon though.
Thinking I may be able to consolidate and wipe out HC at the same time, just using the units I have now.

Tech situation is pretty good considering how many beakers I'm getting. Screen

Spoiler :

 

[vranasm]

@Ichthys163

Spoiler :

Well if I may ask do you plan to settle the "obvious" gp farm 2w1s from Cumae (a bit too late though in 500 AD - you really need some GSs for academys in cottage farms)? And I think you should plan a city for that wheat down there, in my game I actually have there my HE city (probably there is place for 2 cities more, I think I have 1 near those deers that i cant see right now, another near gold).
I dont' see tech screen, so dunno what have enemies, but if you have still tech edge (no one having maceman/crosbows) I would steamroll someone more.
Tough to comment more since from screenshots I can't see number of workers, overall improvements in your cities.

Why you decided Antium to be prod city? there is so much flood plains, that should be probably your main cottage city.

 

[drlake]

@Ichthys

Spoiler :

I'm with vranasm on Antium, that area is perfect for a cottage city. In an odd way, you've eaten up too much of the FP with Antium and Neapolis as located, since shifting both of them South would have allowed a third city at the North end to exploit all that FP.

The lack of cottages is showing up in your economy right now, and if you continue to expand against HC you're going to bottom it out before that war is over. Getting Currency in 4 turns will help, since you can start having cities produce Wealth, but the fundamental problem is that your empire is pretty spread out and doesn't seem to have the financial infrastructure in place for further expansion. You should be running 100bpt+ at 500AD, instead of losing money at 42bpt. The fix to that is more cottages, more libraries, more scientist specialists, and even cities producing research/wealth.

If you don't redirect your efforts towards the economy and research, Willem is going to become a problem for you. He's got a healthy tech lead already, and both he and Zara tend to tech well. To do that, I'd stop building more troops, stop building infrastructure like the Walls in Ravenna (Zara isn't very aggressive, just keep him at Pleased and he won't attack), and focus on getting your commerce and research rate up.

 

[Amao]

I had no momery of playing this map. So, here is a quick play to the first checkpoint.

Noble/Normal 1000BC

Spoiler Up to first check point :

I'm unfamiliar with AC and his trait. And the start is, well, very food poor, even with the added seafood. So, I checked and figured worker first is better than wb first. So, worker, chopped a wb and then mined the gold. Then, i chopped another tree and 2-1 rushed the first settler. Later 2-1 rushed the 2nd one from Rome again. However, I'm not sure the loss of gold for these turns are worth the turned I saved for new cities.

And here is turn 75. Just got the 6th city settled for wheat, cow and stone in the SE region. With Prats online, i'm thinking of 7-9 Prats by turn 90 and storm Maya and Inca in order.

Spoiler screenie :

These games were like yesterday. Yet it's actually 10 years ago. Whew...

 

[Fish Man]

Ah yes, the map that I attempted to get sub-t600 space win on deity marathon and failed. We tried, @Swordnboard . We really did...

Anyways, I'll probably upload NC204 Augustus (or maybe Monty idk) in the upcoming week. Stay tuned until then!

 

[Amao]

OK, I played this one a little more, experimenting 4-2 rush.

Spoiler Up to turn 100 :

Just executed the plan I said in the last update. Used the first 4 cities to rush/chop out Prats. Did some micro so that to avoid situation that I couldn't kill 2 pops.
Before DOW on Pacal, I was a little conservative, waited until 7 Prats to start the invasion. However, in the 3 turns I marched through his nation to his lone capital, all he did was to upgrade his lone warrior to axe. I got a 7 pop capital with SH and loads of food w/o losing a single Prat...

So, with even more Prats now, I moved north and cutting through HC's land and just got his capital on turn 99 with GW.

Side note: I found William got Alphabet on turn 98. He might already got it for a couple of turns. No matter, doesn't have much to trade anyway. I traded Alphabet and Mystery from him. He's holding CoL from me. Well, my economy is flat with 11 cities. So, I'll do 0 science for now until I'm done with war. Hopefully I'd recover with Calendar based resources online? Or maybe GLH? I'm settling to the west island. That will boost my economy, money wise, for sure.

Spoiler screenies :

 

[Amao]

Spoiler Just a few turns later :

Sacked all 3 remaining cities on turn 103. Inca no more... So, there is enough cash for MC now. btw, the island city is up. Seems more sites on island.

 

[Amao]

Spoiler Up to 1AD :

William down to 1 city. I scouted and found Zara got wall up in his cities. So, my army went east and just captured William's holy city this turn.
Why didn't AI whip defenders nowadays? Ended up researched CoL myself. I'm not sure why did I do this. Shouldn't I go on the Astro line?

Spoiler screenie :

 

[Amao]

Spoiler Too many cities to continue :

it's now 175AD, 20 cities. all former Dutch cities are online. Got many forges in the past few turns, the IND trait is great in doing this hence giving me 75 hammer in the 2 pop rush or 37 in 1. However, my army are numerous against the only AI, Zara, left on the starting continent. So, i'm rushing new units out for the moment. I just need to focus on getting Astro to sail across the sea. Yes, Machinery is in next turn. And I'm trying to get a GS to bulb Astro. But with so many cities, each turn takes minutes to finish if not tens of minutes... Why couldn't I learn the speeding thingy from TMIT after all these years?

Probably stops here as it's pretty clear what's left to win this game. Just need time and efforts.

Spoiler screenie :