Non-Midas With A Vengeance - The Conquests Rematch

IHT: I cancel the lux deal with Germany, because I think 8 gpt for it is too cheap. Since we just got banking last turn, I switch a couple of core cities to production of banks.

IT: Germany and India sign peace.

Turn 1, 2 (560, 570 AD) Nothing much...

IT: Germans are bulding Magellan.

Turn 3 (580 AD) 4 powers in the world know the secrets of Navigation. Only two (India and Russia) know Physics.

I buy Physics from India for 13 gpt, iron, incense, world map and 13 gold. This shows me that no AI has any non-required techs over us.However, I can get Military Tradition from the AI: I buy Military Tradition from Germany for Physics, Incense and 3 gpt. I could also get Navigation, but it is a dead-end tech without benefit to us. Except that Persia throws in the world map. So I sell Persia Physics for world map and Navigation. We are at tech parity again.

Science now goes to 0% with a lone scientist at Economics.

Turn 4 (590 AD) Aquaduct rushed for 40 gold.

IT: Russia starts Newton.This is OUR wonder :mad:

Turn 5 (600 AD) Russia is the only one with knowledge of Theory of Gravity.

IT: The Arabs land an archer and a spear. One of our saltpeter sources depletes!

Turn 6 (610 AD) The archer and spear are killed by a vet knight and an elite horse. No Promotions.

Turn 8 (620 AD, 630 AD) India and Germany now also know ToG, but 106 gpt is not enough to buy it...

IT: To renew the lux - lux deal with Persia, we have to add 3 gpt. Persia, Russia and India start Shakespeare. Persia starts Smith.

Turn 9 (640 AD) Russia, Persia and India now know Economics. Germany does not, neither does it know ToG.

Turn 10 (650 AD) We are able to buy ToG.But the price appears too high and there's no 2fer to catapult ourselves into the Industrial Age. Once we get there however, we can use our free tech. But...that means that we have to beat Germany and Persia to it... I've been rushing buildings to get rid of our cash. We now have 0 gold and make 109 gpt.

650 AD save

EDIT: I still think we should take the two luxury spots from Arabia. Cities that are finished building improvements are set on military for that.
 
When I was looking at the save, I was wondering why we were still building Knights when we had Mil Trad. Then I remembered that we had one deplete [Edit: and thus no cavalry]. It would make a war with the Arabs much harder as they do have Feudalism and therefore Pikes and MDI.

One other thought. If we want to upgrade Horsemen - we are at 109 gold. I checked to see how many regular units we have. It was sufficient to bring the gold back up to 120+ (we only need to disband 6). Rushing buildings though is equally valid.
 
NMTWAV, Inherited Turn, 650AD


First off, I did a quick map survey to assess our strength We are looking extremely well. In terms of size, Germany and India are likely to present the greatest long-term threat The Arabs have a decent portion of land but it is mostly tundra, and they're hopelessly backwards. I disagree about Russia being a major threat: they're doing well technologically, but they're tiny! All-in-all, I think Germany is the AI we must beware of, for, as well as sharing our continent, the Germans are scientific and have a kicking UU to come fairly shortly. At some point, though I'm not sure when, I would like to see us kick Germany off our continent. For the meanwhile, I agree we should bully the Arabs and nick their luxuries.


At this point, however, we are also at an important part of the tech race. Although my standard high level research tactic is to ride the AI's coattails until the end of the industrial/beginning of the modern age, in this game we've been doing well researching properly, and since this is what the variant was designed to encourage, we may as well persevere with this tactic. With our free tech coming up, we actually have a chance now to surge into the tech lead and reverse the roles, sell technology to the AIs and fuel our own research.


With this in mind I take the scientist off economics and await the arrival of magnetism to jump into the industrial age. With 4 scientific civs approaching this milestone, I'll just have to see what transpires and take it from there. I've got a feeling the next few turns could be a critical juncture in the technological race!

For war against Arabia I think we need a few more ships. Since we're seafaring, we may as well keep a few ships handy at all times, just in case we need to get units across to any of the other islands, or to try to pinch resources. The micromanagement and build choices are top-notch, I make only a couple of minor adjustments to suit my needs, such as giving Trebizond an extra floodplain since it is closer to the palace than Nicaea. A couple of builds are switched and I begin to shuffle some troops around.


IT: Constantinople caravel ----------> caravel .... it needs a couple more mines to get to 20spt
Caesarea caravel ----------> courthouse
Naissus granary ----------> courthouse


Turn 1, 660AD: mainly micromanaging. Some deals end next turn and more gold will be freed up. Upgrade a horseman to knight.

IT: see Russian cities change, so they've reached the industrial age.


Turn 2, 670AD: what a turn this was ...

Check diplomacy to see Persia is also industrial. The MPP option is visible in the diplomacy screen, so at least one of them has nationalism. They're both scientific so a lot could have happened, and we must try to capitalize right now. We've got a lot of gpt available, and we have our saltpeter back. The Spanish dyes for silks deal can be renegotiated, but since the price will likely go up, leave that alone. Persia has a ton of gold while Russia is more-or-less skint, so I suspect the Persians got the better of the free techs.

So here we go. I buy off Russia, since Persia has the more cash already. Incense, WM, 13g and 128gpt gets Magnetism at 3rd.

Unfortunately, India must be very close to self-researching Magnetism, since they're insulted by the offer of Magnetism for Theory of Gravity. I'm not about to leave the double trade now so I spend the rest of our available gpt to get into the industrial age: WM, Magnetism, 129g and 54gpt gets Theory of Gravity from India...

...and this is where the fun starts...

We enter the Industrial Age and draw Steam Power as our free tech. F2 reveals we have a source of coal, right about....


NMTWAVIronWorks.jpg



...there! Bingo! Our FP city is an iron works site. For good measure it has a saltpeter in its first 9 tiles too. We have had so much luck in this game, this is icing on the cake! This is also the reason I hate it when people moan about bad luck and combat results and so on, because good luck like we've had here balances all that out, yet people only tend to remember the bad stuff and not the breaks they've had.

Here's some more good news: neither Persia nor Russia has steam power! They both have nationalism and medicine, so we've got a monopoly to play with.

Nationalism, however, is priced so steeply that even the monopoly on steam power is only a doubtful trade for it. I want to dilute its cost and can do so by bringing Germany into the industrial age, but there's no way I'm doing that until I've traded the monopoly tech (in case Germany als draws steam power). So, with this in mind, I go all cash for the monopoly:

Steam Power to Persia for 3173g + 174gpt, every penny they've got.

Now I drag Germany into the industrial age. Magnetism and Theory of Gravity to Germany for WM and Democracy.

Germany draws medicine; I was hoping they'd draw nationalism. Still, we have good possibilities here. Next trade:

Steam Power to Russia for Economics, WM, 13g + 104gpt.

Then,

Steam Power + Economics to Germany for WM + Medicine

And then money back,

Medicine + WM to India for WM, Free Artistry, 164g + 62gpt.

At this point, after the slingshot, we've got an economy of 3354g + 345gpt. Healthy?


Since we can't keep the treasury, I'm feeling sneaky and adventurous. Checking dipomacy I see that although we're receiving 104gpt from russia, we're also paying them 153gpt and incense. There's only one thing for it, right?

NMTWAVNationalism.jpg



A safe steal succeeds!! We get Nationalism for the (relative) peanut cost of just over 2000g, money we couldn't have kept anyway!


Wow, that's what I call a slingshot! We're at tech parity and have 1106g + 345gpt.


Set science to 80% for industrialization, eta 13 turns. I would say we've got a good chance of getting it first since the AIs are likely to head the Communism/Fascism route.

Recheck our empire since we now have a number of new options. I notice we have a leader hanging around...we have a choice of 5 wonders we could use him on. Tempting. With the position we have in the tech race, and with so many prebuilds available and a potential iron works, I reckon we can secure Theory of Evolution (and Hoover) building manually. I know we talked about going for Newton's but I'm going to stick my head out and go for Smith's instead. I think Smith's will be more useful to us that Newton's, since it'll easily save us 50gpt or so every turn until the end of the game. Change Constantinople to coastal fort to complete next turn, will then use leader.

Adrianople goes on Bach's, prebuild for later, Trebizond goes on ironworks. I decide to use the cash for upgrades, and with horses costing 150g to upgrade to cavalry, the cash is soon spent.

Here's the final bonus: neither Persia nor Germany have a source of coal [dance]


What a turn, I'm completely knackered after that!


IT: Spanish want to renegotiate lux deal, we have to throw in an extra 2gpt.

Constantinople coastal fortress ----------> Smith's

borders expanding, palace expanded, Moscow completes Magellan's.


Turn 3, 680AD: Smith's is rushed. Starting to load some troops onto boats, upgrade a caravel.

IT: Constantinople Smith's ----------> galleon

lots of cascades.


Turn 4 690AD: beginning a military railnet, we could do with more workers but we have so many things to build right now. Upgrade another caravel.


Turn 5, 700AD: micromanaging, upgrade a couple of knights.

IT: Nicaea university ----------> market

St Petersburg completes Bach's.


Turn 6, 710AD: Adrianople switches to Shakespeare's. Upgrade a Dromon.

IT: Constantinople galleon ----------> cavalry ... we've got just about enough ships now.

Konigsberg completes Shakespeare's, Delhi completes Newton's...end of cascade :goodjob:


Turn 7, 720AD: Adrianople switched to palace Industrialization wll arrive before the palace completes so we've got plenty of prebuild scope available.

Germany can offer 40gpt for Nationaism, this is not enough IMO so no trade.

Upgrade another dromon. Invasion force will be ready for next turn.


IT: single Arab galley appears.

Caesarea courthouse ---------> granary


Turn 8, 730AD: 3 galleons head for Arabia, carrying 6 cavalry, 3 knights, 3 rifles and a pike, all veteran.

Science raised to 90%, Russia has Communism.


IT: Varna market ----------> university
palace expanded


Turn 9, 740AD: troops land on gem mountain outside Khurasan, galleons head back for reinforcements, one boatload of reinforcements already on the way.


Some deals have now expired and Germany can offer some serious cash so trade is made: Nationalism to Germany for WM, 38g + 78gpt. If we don't sell to them at this price, an AI certainly will.

Navigation sold to the backward Inca for a bit of change, WM, 20g + 9gpt.

Science to 100%.

Persia and Russia now both have Communism and Fascism, so they went the expected route :) With 5 turns left on our industrialization run, we must now be hot favourites to get it first.


IT: Arab workers scurry hither and thither and into Khurasan, for us to capture when we take the city :)

Dyracchium market ----------> bank


Turn 10, 750AD:

attack on Khurasan (on a hill): vet cav beats reg pike, vet cav beats reg spear and promotes to elite, vet cav dies to reg spear, vet cav kills redlined spear. Khurasan is ours and the ready-made harbour transports gems all across our homeland :). 5 workers are captured and our troops pile in to quell the resistance and to regroup so the next leader can plan a concerted smashing of the Arabs.

Instead of moving the 3 rifles into the city I move and fortify them on the gem mountains instead to protect our luxes. With an effective defence of 13.5 they should be able to withstand anything the Arabs throw at them.

Galleons return and fortify in Ancyra to await further reinforcements. The galleon bringing he immediate reinforcements heads back with 4 of the slaves, to transport them into the safe realms of our homeland. The final captured slave fortifies.

The capture of this one city has also increased our palace prebuild cost as well as helping markedly with our happiness problems. I decide not to sell the extra gems just yet in case there are any problems with the harbour being bombarded. Once the route is safe the next leader can sell these gems, there are plenty of takers.

I leave us with 4g + 64gpt at 100% science, so the next player (Stuck) will have a bit of cash to play with every turn, to upgrade or part-rush (no need to give the gold away). Industrialization is due in 4 but we can save a LOT of cash by lowering science to complete in the same number of turns when we're down to 1 or 2 turns to go. For now, the immediate aims are likely:


1) Prosecute the war against the Arabs, focussing on securing luxuries. With the cavs and rifles and the reinforcements arriving this shouldn't be too difficult. Khurasan could use some flip allievement, and then our next targets should probably be Anjar and Kufah, to get the furs. At that point we could mop up the 3 cities on the south coast and fight on one front only. With some good planning we should be able to take over the entire Arab island.

2) Take advantage of our excellent tech position to propel and keep us in the lead, specifically vis-a-vis obtaining Theory of Evolution.

3) Complete the military railnet to provide that extra defensive security.


Have fun Stuck!


Stuck_As_a_Mac ....UP NOW
Elvis1985....ON DECK
Greebley
Betazed
Melifluous
Nad
Aggie

The Save
 
It must be my birthday or something... I've got such a kickass set of turns to follow up on.

Lemme first take a look at the save before I comment on it. These turns might take a while, so it may not be back until Friday or something.

Will reply again after the turn is anaylized

SaaM
 
Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Adrianople is building a palace... Should that be US when its researched?

Depending on how far the palace has progressed we can either change that to a factory or let it keep going to get ToE. We should also start another prebuild for Hoover.

I typically start the prebuilds for ToE and Hoover at the same time.
 
Indeed, with the weakening of industrious in Conquests, I'm beginning to think that scientific is now the strongest trait.

About the prebuild in Adrianople: I started it quite early so we could adapt to whatever circumstances arose. We have a number of options: IIRC, it is already past factory stage, switching to that would waste a number of shields. Conversely, I doubt we'll get Scientific Method in time for this prebuild. What I would do is use this prebuild for Suffrage to try to kill any cascade before it even starts. Once we get industrialization we can complete Suffrage in under 10 turns with the prebuild, which should be fast enough before Scientific method is researched. I would start another prebuild pretty soon for TofE, and then a prebuild for Hoover. We are in good shape to take all 3 wonders.
 
I knew at the moment that I handed over the save, that these were crucial times. We could not afford to wait too long and had to get into the IA ASAP. It obviously was impossible to be there before Russia and Persia, but we were lucky with our Steam tech. Excellent move to promote Germany to the IA and get Medicine this way :thumbsup:

The steal was also a very useful means of spending our money!

We have a nice amount of workers and should be fully railed soon. This combined with a great IW spot should enable us to pull ahead and also get at least ToE and Hoover.

Obvious suggestion for the ToE techs is Atomic Theory and Electronics and after that research of Radio (which the AI can never research due to lack of techs). To make optimal use of the situation we should finish as much libraries, universities, marketplaces and banks as possible.

The Arab war is a golden opportunity. I'd recommend to raze the two lux cities and replace them with Byzantine cities.
 
Excellently played, Nad! Being on top of tech this early is very impressive for deity. I do now understand why the Byzantines have been strong in tech as the AI. The seafaring/scientific combo is very powerful on non-pangea maps. I think you really picked the right civ for this variant, Nad.

I also agree at looking towards Germany to attack in the nearish future. I would think we should look at that when our factories start coming on line. We might have a window before Rep Parts and infantry (or simply build enough artillery).

Were we thinking of stopping the Arab war after getting the two Lux? I think my opinion would be to continue the war until we get both lux and WW starts hurting our research. At that point we end it taking cities for peace if we can get them. It would not be worth slowing our research down.
 
Credit where credit is due, it was T-Hawk that first suggested Byzantines for this game.
 
Just a report from the front... We've weakened the Arab army greatly thanks to a stand on the city which cost us only 3 units and netted us a MGL. However... WW increased during IBT and I had to raise Lux to 20%. There are some good deals in regards to Communisim and Facisim we can get with Ind. (Started on Electricty). I should finish tonight, but I'm wondering if I should raize the captured city and use all units on offensive...
 
Stuck, I don't see why we would want Fascism and Communism. I think it would be clever to stick to the required techs for Space Race.

Regarding the Arabs: good job from what you tell us :thumbsup:
Razing cities sounds all right, but when war goes this well, we may just as well leave the cities (virtually) empty and recapture when they flip or are reconquered. As soon as they are gone -the Arabs-, flip risk is gone as well :D
 
We got a leader? Great! Cavalry army...4 move!!!! I'd just go on the offensive from your report. Use that army to take a city, use the newly gained roads to move defensive units in, spend a turn healing, and move on. Razing would be okay if we're short of troops, apart from the luxes the land is largely useless. One other thing to consider: if we're really short of units, just drop science to 0% for one turn and use the oodles of cash to rush units on the front for the next turn.

Keep it going, sounds good! And like Aggie says, no need for fascism and communism just yet, we can pick those up later when they become backward techs. The toughest thing that could happen now is if Germany demanded industrialization...we would almost certainly have to refuse, so keep some cities on military!
 
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