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Normal or Epic (or quick?)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Dec 2, 2005.

?

What speed would you prefer? (Choose the closest option to your opinion)

  1. Normal

    88 vote(s)
    24.0%
  2. Epic

    139 vote(s)
    37.9%
  3. Quick

    14 vote(s)
    3.8%
  4. I'll only play it if its normal

    13 vote(s)
    3.5%
  5. I'll only play it if its epic

    6 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. Mix it up a bit - all speeds.

    86 vote(s)
    23.4%
  7. I don't mind.

    21 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I think your claim is awfully broad. I would consider myself a "serious" player and I definitely don't want all of the games to be Epic. I much prefer a mix, but that would include all three speeds: Quick also! I also don't think having the same game at multiple different speeds is a good idea at all. It does affect how the game goes, a lot, and defeats the point of being able to compare games with other players.
     
  2. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Chieftain

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    I voted mix it up, but I'd like to add that I mean use both Epic and Normal. I like my games a little slower so am not reeally interested in quick.

    Of course that doesn't mean I would not play quick, I just wouldn't take as much pleasure in playing those ones.
     
  3. Goodenuf

    Goodenuf Warlord

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    I voted for Normal (but not only normal) given my own personal time constraints (i.e. I actually have a life outside of CIV... imagine that!).

    Those who played the GOTM1 in 4 hours must not be warmongers... i guess it was an all-out peaceful race to the space victory. I find that domination/conquest games take quite a bit longer to work through due to all of the unit movement.

    I do understand the balancing advantage with Epic given that units you build in Normal mode could be obsolete in 20 turns... just as you're about to engage an enemy. That part is frustrating for sure.

    I suppose mixing it up is the best choice just for variety. I would definitely give the Epic games a shot, but I likely wouldnt be able to finish them very often.

    I think a quick game would be interesting in the GOTM environment... a good test for the skilled player that's used to the epic game. Kind of like playing blitz chess... the masters really struggle with it.
     
  4. Tarkeel

    Tarkeel Imperial

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    I prefer epic myself, as units are more worth then (imho).

    Also, would it be possible to launch two versions, with the only difference being one of them having OCC turned on? PLaying OCC with the 2-national wonders rule is a bit harsh, imho..
     
  5. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    I was going to suggest this as well but forgot about it. This is definitely needed if you want people to try OCC's.
     
  6. whb

    whb King

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    Jan 21, 2002
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    702
    It seems to me that playing a variety is rather important given that the game plays differently on different speeds. And that includes quick.
     
  7. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    It's weird that they went out of their way to create a special OCC option. You would think they could have just made a rule that you can build more than 2 national wonders if you only have one city.
     
  8. Tarkeel

    Tarkeel Imperial

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    @Daviddes: What would then happen with the wonders if you built a second city? I think it's a very nice feature, but I miss support for 5CC, and they could have made a seperate "Variant" page on the Play Now setup.
     
  9. Yang The Cat

    Yang The Cat Chieftain

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    I find the way different units are spread out over the game is very uneven. In ancient / classical your units go out of date far too quickly, wheras in the modern era there are only a handful of useful units. Epic helps a bit in the early periods, but both speeds seem to suffer from this problem.

    I'd marginally prefer Epic over Normal, since I tend to play my games quite quickly, but I think it should be different from month to month. If we play at different difficulties, why not different speeds?
     
  10. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    You could just let people do what they want. It's hard for me to imagine that people could somehow find the strategy of avoiding building more than one city in order to build several National Wonders in their one city, and then building some more cities, to work better than normal play. So what's the harm in permitting it?
     
  11. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I chose mix it up but, in truth I'm really not sure. I'm in so many SG's I haven't been able to really sit down and finish GOTM 1 so wonder how I'd do with an epic GOTM.

    I believe I've only played one epic game (LK108) and didn't really notice that much of a difference in the way the game played out. I have as yet to have tried a SP epic game.

    One thing I'd propose is what if while CivIV is still considered new we had a Quick game on the 15th for a couple months? Something that wouldn't require the staff to put a lot of time in but at least appease all of our new players. Just a thought.
     
  12. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    I think a bit of everything, but mostly normal.
     
  13. bradleyfeanor

    bradleyfeanor King

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    I voted for epic.

    All my initial games were played at normal. The games were fun, but unrealistic and a bit frustrating. The tech pace vs. unit movement on pangaea maps wasn't too bad, as war could be waged before the tech pace accelerated. Not so for continent and archipelago. If you wage a WWII Normandy-style assault in a normal game, it's possible to ship off macemen and catapults in galleons, and about the time they arrive, everything can upgrade to cannons and grenadiers. A few cities later, it's time for infantry and artillery. I have to wonder how it didn't get tweaked at some point during playtesting. I would never ask for (or want) total realism, but the current late-game tech pace is just insane.

    Now I have played a few games at epic speed and like it more in every way. Research vs. unit movement is more balanced, and it doesn't seem to make games much longer. However, I am a slow player. If I play a "normal" game meticulously, it has taken anywhere from 10 to 24 hours depending on the victory condition pursued. I played one epic game in 8 hours (diplo), and another in 16 (domination), so it doesn't seem to make much difference--at least for me. That may partially be because I have gotten better at using my city adviser screen, and I don't spend as much time checking each city individually.

    Unfortunately, I think the different game speeds affect the "fun" level depending on what type of victory you pursue. Epic speed makes military games more fun because you get to do more with the units you invested in. Peaceful victory conditions at Epic aren't as fun because the turns are more tedious. If you are a fast player, you just hit "end turn" a lot more often than in a normal game—no big deal. But for a micromanager you have to go look at a few cities on most of those extra turns, and that's a lot of added tedium. I fear this difference in the fun-factor is going to make players who usually play for peaceful victories heavily favor Normal, and warmongers favor Epic.

    I like to play for a different victory condition every month, and I am hoping most games end up being Epics for the following reason: the extra time spent checking cities in a peaceful game is more bearable than only getting 10 turns to use a unit before it is obsolete in a military game. I fear I will tire of the latter very, very quickly.

    I haven't played "Quick" yet, but I have a vision in my head of sending a swordsman off to a distant enemy city, and at the time he arrives, building an infantry in my capitol. I can't imagine ever wanting to play a "Quick" game—unless, perhaps, it's to test that theory.
     
  14. dimebolt

    dimebolt Chieftain

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    I voted 'mixed' for exactly this reason. Although I must admit that I have only played 'normal' speed sofar.
     
  15. solenoozerec

    solenoozerec Stranger

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    I voted for "mixed". Diversity is never bad.
     
  16. tharg

    tharg Warlord

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    I voted for epic, I think tech peace at other levels is too quick. If you want to speed the game up you can play on smaller maps.

    But that is just me; I actually think it should be a mixed selection although that’s not my preference.
     
  17. LeSphinx

    LeSphinx Bachogwa

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    I vote for Epic but I shoud have vote for

    Mix it up a bit - all speeds.
     
  18. AnotherJon

    AnotherJon Chieftain

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    I voted epic because my own experience of normal has much in common with this, though maybe it is better in 1.52.
     
  19. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    You do know that you can chain ships together, right? If you have several galleons spaced across the ocean, you can load units onto the first, move it to the second, re-load the units onto the second, move it to the third, etc. So you can basically cross any ocean in one turn. And galleons are pretty cheap.

    Also, if you send the units overseas, and then you do discover new technologies, you can upgrade them in the field (once you capture at least one city), so technological progress really isn't a big deal; you just have to budget for it.

    I don't object to epic speed, either, but I think the problems that you describe at normal speed are mostly very manageable. Unless you want to be able to conquer the entire world in a single sweep without ever advancing in technology.
     
  20. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Ship chaining doesn't work anymore. Units lose a turn every time they load into a new ship.
     

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