criZp
Deity
It was also never an intended mechanic, and was really dumb.
[GS] Norway in GS
- Thread starter humble serf
- Start date
Aye, pardon my nitpickyness, but I meant something much more all encompassing
Free disembark is good, though Norway already has free embark and disembark in general. My statement was including the part about embarked land melee essentially being able to act as naval melee for Norway as well. That's what I meant by transition seamlessly between land and sea; being able to use the same units actively in both theatres with minimal interruption.Repost of mine from a few months ago:
Stave Church needs to be scrapped.
Even forgetting for a moment that Norway needs broader buffs the Stave Church does not meaningfully fit into the grand scheme of their civilization. I'm certainly no expert but the three things that jump out at me about Norway are the Viking raids/exploration(firmly covered by existing bonuses), expert traders/fishermen, and on the religious front specifically the Norse Pantheon. The bonuses should be shifted away from faith and organized religion directly and more towards pantheon bonuses and maritime economic pursuits.
Some broad conceptual suggestions:
I also like the previously proposed idea of pillaging up Rivers but wouldn't want it to become the sole focus of the civ.
Stave Church needs to be scrapped.
Even forgetting for a moment that Norway needs broader buffs the Stave Church does not meaningfully fit into the grand scheme of their civilization. I'm certainly no expert but the three things that jump out at me about Norway are the Viking raids/exploration(firmly covered by existing bonuses), expert traders/fishermen, and on the religious front specifically the Norse Pantheon. The bonuses should be shifted away from faith and organized religion directly and more towards pantheon bonuses and maritime economic pursuits.
Some broad conceptual suggestions:
- Remove the Stave Church completely.
- Give Norway a pantheon specific trait such as choosing two pantheon bonuses or getting a free pantheon at the start of the game, etc.
- Give them a Lighthouse replacement, baking in the +1 sea resource production from Stave Church and a bonus to trade routes involving that city. Something like +food for internal trade routes with that city as the destination (ie fish being sent inland) and a large +gold/science bonus specifically for your maritime international trade routes originating from that city.
- Toss in un-pillagable maritime trade routes for a kicker if balance appropriate.
I also like the previously proposed idea of pillaging up Rivers but wouldn't want it to become the sole focus of the civ.
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ehecatzin
Emperor
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What I would like to see is Norway pushing even more into getting something unique out of pillaging and riding districts. For example, getting goody hut like rewards out of pillaging districts:
So say you pillage a:
-Holy Site - chance to get a relic.
-Teather Square - change to get great works and eurekas
-Neighborhood or farm - chance of +1 population on capital
-Encampment - stash of weapons free promotion.
-Campus - change to get great writing and eurekas
All of this with higher chance of getting the reward the more you pillage a district. It would make Norway a bit of a Sea Sumeria (but you target a civ instead of barbs) or similar to the Aztecs in that you prioritize capturing units before conquering a city. The more you pillage the more potential benefits you get. It would certainly be more fun to play.
Heck another buff they could get to take advantage of GS and it would be in a similar vein to Russia, would be to make their ships immune to storms.
So say you pillage a:
-Holy Site - chance to get a relic.
-Teather Square - change to get great works and eurekas
-Neighborhood or farm - chance of +1 population on capital
-Encampment - stash of weapons free promotion.
-Campus - change to get great writing and eurekas
All of this with higher chance of getting the reward the more you pillage a district. It would make Norway a bit of a Sea Sumeria (but you target a civ instead of barbs) or similar to the Aztecs in that you prioritize capturing units before conquering a city. The more you pillage the more potential benefits you get. It would certainly be more fun to play.
Heck another buff they could get to take advantage of GS and it would be in a similar vein to Russia, would be to make their ships immune to storms.
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The Norway abilities are shown in German in the preview discussion thread if anyone can translate.
DWilson
Where am I? What turn is it?
False alarm, mis-translation.
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
I know it's a work of fiction so take it with a grain of salt, but Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead (which was made into the movie The Thirteenth Warrior) mentions that the Norse word for river was "Vyk" and that "Vyking" meant sailing upriver to pillage settlements.
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Obviously you would get a free warrior monk for your religion. If anybody watches the T.V. show Vikings they would understand.
criZp
Deity
does make them more similar to phoenica, thought
Casworon
Prince
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True. Might also give them +2 loyalty in coastal cities.
I'm not thinking about a total rework. Just a few little bonuses to give them a little boost.
Though i am kinda curious what a total rework of them would look like, such as what they did for England.
I'm not thinking about a total rework. Just a few little bonuses to give them a little boost.
Though i am kinda curious what a total rework of them would look like, such as what they did for England.
criZp
Deity
"Melee ships start with a free promotion", perhaps. Would fit with the military theme.
It would be historically accurate for Norway to be able to pillage without having to declare war but they still will get grievances.
pgm123
Emperor
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An elegant solution, imo.
criZp
Deity
That bonus also won't do anything when playing vs other human players. I'm not personally a fan of these bonuses, that only work vs AI.
Sagax
Emperor
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Random thought: if Firaxis is so insistent on confiding Norway to the ocean gimmick and making pillaging and disembarking the main features of Norway, then why not add this:
All embarked military units gain X combat strength per turn, up to Y. This bonus is reduced by Z at the end of each turn after disembarking.
You are thus rewarded for aggressive raiding from the ocean, and slow combat deterioration means that you are not completely hopeless against cities a bit deeper in the continent. Still, you must seize the momentum and attack fast - just like the real Vikings.
All embarked military units gain X combat strength per turn, up to Y. This bonus is reduced by Z at the end of each turn after disembarking.
You are thus rewarded for aggressive raiding from the ocean, and slow combat deterioration means that you are not completely hopeless against cities a bit deeper in the continent. Still, you must seize the momentum and attack fast - just like the real Vikings.
acluewithout
Deity
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I still think just extending Norway’s production bonus from just Naval Melee to Naval and Land Melee would do the trick, and would be much simpler (perhaps then limiting the bonus to coastal cities). That would also synergise well with the Berserker.
I started spitballing something similar about making Norway have a unique pillage mechanic, but it got way too complicated too fast. It had to do with having a food or growth penalty to your own cities which you had to supplement by pillaging. Play-testing it in my head and trying to get it such that if you ignored the mechanic you'd be penalized but not crippled and if you embraced the ability you could outperform other civs, it required making lots of other changes and overcomplicated it, but I did like some of the ideas. They needed to be able to pillage a tile multiple but finite times (necessary for the penalty/bonus but probably hard to code,) Two things that I thought of that I'd like to see are 1.) they flip the script on war weariness - suffer a penalty if at peace for too long but remain content when at war, possibly some amenity boost for prolonged or multiple wars, and 2.) for warmongering, the AI grants grants deals with you as if they were pleased regardless of how they favor you.
I like your idea about pillaging, one slight change:
pillage an encampment, and your unit upgrades, even if you lack the technology. can be done once per unit.
One of the things I really like about Mvemba is that his bonuses and penalties make his civ very unique, it requires a different playstyle. Most of the other civs have bonuses that tweak certain aspects of the game mechanics, and the civs that have bonuses that buff the standard deity strategy formula are the preferred or overpowered civs. But you play them all the same way. I wish there were more civs like Kongo that are completely different but not necessarily better or worse. Changing the pillage mechanic for Harald is an opportunity to make such a civ. Remember SMAC? There were only 7 factions but they were so different from each other that it made the game feel more diverse than civ6 does with its 36 leaders.
I also wish the berserker had a different ability. It would have a command button, "berzerk." Once you press it, the unit gets +20 combat strength, +2 movement, and can attack multiple times per turn, but automatically dies 10 turns later, +1 turn of survival for each unit it kills.
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