NotW LIV - The Masque of Death

[Arakhor]

Midday Five​

Silver Mask
Visorslash - Visorslash, Winston Hughes
Not Interested: Everyone else

Newyn: Backwards Logic, Visorslash, Winston Hughes, Autolycus
Snerk: Newyn
Abstain: Legato Endless, Snerk


Apathy was the order of the day for the sole mask available today. In the end, Visorslash was voted the Silver Mask by a underwhelming minority. It was almost as such a heretical system as asking the people to choose their own rulers was a workable concept, rather than a horrifying dream.

 

[Visorslash]

I can use it to see who is a member of the nobility, not sure how useful that is.

 

[Newyn]

As scum, you could 'clear' anyone as you have perfect information. Don't think this isn't lost on me. And you still haven't revealed your third 'result,' so I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by 'after all I've done.'

I think the third result is obvious - it's a corpse (Sprig was the first person I scanned which was why I had no trouble joking with him because I knew he couldn't be scum).

I'm blaming you if we lose this because while it's perfectly understandable what you're doing now, you're putting all your faith on one mistaken belief while ignoring everything else. It's this single minded nature of players that loses close games.

I had 0 reason to clear you when I did if I wasn't seer because what did I have to gain from the claim? I was under almost no real voting pressure and I don't believe I was that high up on anyone's suspect list so why would I want to draw unwanted attention my way? You know this as well as anyone but because there seems to be coincidentally no kill last night, you go into autopilot in your assumptions even though this is no ordinary game.

 

[Newyn]

One other thing I'll mention for when I'm revealed to be telling the truth tomorrow - Autolycus claimed to have been "protecting Snerk last night".

Why in the world would any villager do this turning what could potentially be a failed night attack if it had gone against Snerk into a guaranteed success? Especially when they previously claimed to have what seems like some kind of tracking ability.

The ability to track is one of the most valuable town tools available and he's telling us that he chose to basically guarantee a scum kill if they targeted Snerk over potentially finding scum. I can't believe you guys can be so blind as to not see how that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Visorslash]

One other thing I'll mention for when I'm revealed to be telling the truth tomorrow - Autolycus claimed to have been "protecting Snerk last night".

Why in the world would any villager do this turning what could potentially be a failed night attack if it had gone against Snerk into a guaranteed success? Especially when they previously claimed to have what seems like some kind of tracking ability.

The ability to track is one of the most valuable town tools available and he's telling us that he chose to basically guarantee a scum kill if they targeted Snerk over potentially finding scum. I can't believe you guys can be so blind as to not see how that makes absolutely no sense.

Admittedly bodyguarding snerk is something that pinged me, very strange night action to be taking on snerk.

 

[Visorslash]

auto some more pressure might be good.

i'm starting to come around to newyn telling the truth in any case

 

[Backwards Logic]

You're blaming me if 'we' lose? Because you've done so much to help... That's okay, you're scum. I don't blame you for not really helping much.

Anyway...

Here's your game plan faking the claims as you have:

Once the numbers in a game drop down to a low level, a fake seer claim becomes exponentially stronger as it simultaneously 'clears' people and also by reducing the number of 'must be scum' players by subtraction. In effect, the votes become focused on only a handful of players - I haven't scanned him yet so odds are 'good' he's scum. In a sheepie townie mentality, this works exceedingly well. Once the end game rolls around for scum, the only thing that matters is not getting lynched (obviously). ATPG and I in our first game together as scum had a large difference in playstyle that we contested over - I had lynches lined up, and he went out of his way behind my back to clear them, resetting the day's lynch option and causing me to scramble. Minus the fake seer claims, I know this play well.

At night, you kill off the 'revealed' players, showing their townie-ness and reinforcing your fake claims. Again during the day you reveal another scan, lynch another player you haven't scanned, and rinse and repeat until lylo.

You've outlined it all yourself: Snerk and Autolycus are the lynch options, last night was supposed to be a kill, plus two more kills (in between and after) and if you do math, that's GG.

So don't give me the 'I have nothing to gain' or 'why would I do that' or whatever other bogus reasoning trying to dissuade me and others. Fake seer claims are something that scum do a fair amount of time. There's a reason it's a valid strategy - it's because it has a chance of working.

You got roleblocked. There's no kill. What else am I supposed to do with that information? Any other person on the planet would come to the same conclusion, and any other person would probably blast me if I didn't pursue this course of action. I don't blame you for trying to wiggle out of it though - your effort is to be commended. Bottom line: the writeup doesn't lie.

 

[Newyn]

You're blaming me if 'we' lose? Because you've done so much to help... That's okay, you're scum. I don't blame you for not really helping much.

I got to blame someone, you're just showing your bias and autopilotting from what you're saying below.

Anyway...

Here's your game plan faking the claims as you have:

Once the numbers in a game drop down to a low level, a fake seer claim becomes exponentially stronger as it simultaneously 'clears' people and also by reducing the number of 'must be scum' players by subtraction. In effect, the votes become focused on only a handful of players - I haven't scanned him yet so odds are 'good' he's scum. In a sheepie townie mentality, this works exceedingly well. Once the end game rolls around for scum, the only thing that matters is not getting lynched (obviously). ATPG and I in our first game together as scum had a large difference in playstyle that we contested over - I had lynches lined up, and he went out of his way behind my back to clear them, resetting the day's lynch option and causing me to scramble. Minus the fake seer claims, I know this play well.

At night, you kill off the 'revealed' players, showing their townie-ness and reinforcing your fake claims. Again during the day you reveal another scan, lynch another player you haven't scanned, and rinse and repeat until lylo.

You've outlined it all yourself: Snerk and Autolycus are the lynch options, last night was supposed to be a kill, plus two more kills (in between and after) and if you do math, that's GG.

So don't give me the 'I have nothing to gain' or 'why would I do that' or whatever other bogus reasoning trying to dissuade me and others. Fake seer claims are something that scum do a fair amount of time. There's a reason it's a valid strategy - it's because it has a chance of working.

If you hadn't noticed, Autolycus was already well and truly in the lead for the lynch yesterday. I had no reason to make the claim if I was scum.
If I wanted to fake seer claim as scum, I would have just let it run it's course, get the kill then make the same claim on lylo instead without drawing suspicion and giving town less time to think things through. There was no benefit to me revealing early and drawing unnecessary attention my way.
The reason I revealed when I did is because I wanted to put some pressure on the scum in case I was wrong about my suspects. There's no way scum could kill both me and you in one night and I still had one scry left to go.
If they managed to kill me, it gives town a confirmed villager to lead them through the final days.
If they managed to kill you, I'd have another scried town or scum to report.
If they failed to kill either of us, it's basically game right there. with either 2 scammed town or 1 scanned town and a scanned scum, not lylo, a potential tracker/clocker in you in play, we just plain weren't going to lose.

You got roleblocked. There's no kill. What else am I supposed to do with that information? Any other person on the planet would come to the same conclusion, and any other person would probably blast me if I didn't pursue this course of action. I don't blame you for trying to wiggle out of it though - your effort is to be commended. Bottom line: the writeup doesn't lie.

In a normal game, sure but look at this game.
It's almost certain that there's 3 scum this game. You think in a 3 scum game that Pizza helped balance where there's a time limit for the scum to win, where their kills are not guaranteed to succeed, where there is 2 blockers (confirmed by you and Snerk), a scanner in me and a claimed tracker in Auto, the scum kill can be completely stopped by any block? Because that's what you're claiming at the moment.

I think we can all agree there's no way this game would be this inbalanced so two of me, you, Autolycus and Snerk has to be scum since if I was the only scum in here, the game had 2 blockers and a tracker on top of the above restrictions. I think we can all agree if that was the case, I wouldn't be so easily stopped by a simple block.

Me and Autolycus can also be ruled out since Autolycus wouldn't drop a vote on me after the extension and leave himself alone and I wouldn't be pushing for his lynch that hard yesterday.

Me and Snerk can be similarly rule out since there's no way Snerk would not have blocked at least one of you or Autolycus after you both claimed tracker/block like abilities.

So tell me, if I am scum, who can I possibly be scum with? You?

 

[Visorslash]

Legato?

 

[Visorslash]

backwards

A thought hit me will explain when i get back

 

[Visorslash]

Got a few mins

Newyns posting seems very town

Bls power seems pretty op roleblocker and scanner
Far more likely theyre separate scum roles

i'm not convinced bl is town or newyn is scum atm

 

[Backwards Logic]

I got to blame someone, you're just showing your bias and autopilotting from what you're saying below.



If you hadn't noticed, Autolycus was already well and truly in the lead for the lynch yesterday. I had no reason to make the claim if I was scum.
If I wanted to fake seer claim as scum, I would have just let it run it's course, get the kill then make the same claim on lylo instead without drawing suspicion and giving town less time to think things through. There was no benefit to me revealing early and drawing unnecessary attention my way.
The reason I revealed when I did is because I wanted to put some pressure on the scum in case I was wrong about my suspects. There's no way scum could kill both me and you in one night and I still had one scry left to go.
If they managed to kill me, it gives town a confirmed villager to lead them through the final days.
If they managed to kill you, I'd have another scried town or scum to report.
If they failed to kill either of us, it's basically game right there. with either 2 scammed town or 1 scanned town and a scanned scum, not lylo, a potential tracker/clocker in you in play, we just plain weren't going to lose.



In a normal game, sure but look at this game.
It's almost certain that there's 3 scum this game. You think in a 3 scum game that Pizza helped balance where there's a time limit for the scum to win, where their kills are not guaranteed to succeed, where there is 2 blockers (confirmed by you and Snerk), a scanner in me and a claimed tracker in Auto, the scum kill can be completely stopped by any block? Because that's what you're claiming at the moment.

I think we can all agree there's no way this game would be this inbalanced so two of me, you, Autolycus and Snerk has to be scum since if I was the only scum in here, the game had 2 blockers and a tracker on top of the above restrictions. I think we can all agree if that was the case, I wouldn't be so easily stopped by a simple block.

Me and Autolycus can also be ruled out since Autolycus wouldn't drop a vote on me after the extension and leave himself alone and I wouldn't be pushing for his lynch that hard yesterday.

Me and Snerk can be similarly rule out since there's no way Snerk would not have blocked at least one of you or Autolycus after you both claimed tracker/block like abilities.

So tell me, if I am scum, who can I possibly be scum with? You?

Fake cop claims only work when the scum is not under any pressure, hence your timing. Sure, you could have claimed day 2 or whatever you were under pressure, but that's too early - your bogus claims would have been figured out, especially after the scum didn't kill you. So you claim late like I say to steer the lynches. Making the claim when under pressure is flinchy and not authentic.

Plus, you have the timeline messed up. I claimed roleblocker after the night ended, so there's no way Snerk could have known I was a blocker before and thus blocked me. He's probably your scum buddy, as if you look back at the spaceman lynch after Winston put you back in the lead Snerk voted space to tie it up.

 

[Backwards Logic]

Got a few mins

Newyns posting seems very town

Bls power seems pretty op roleblocker and scanner
Far more likely theyre separate scum roles

i'm not convinced bl is town or newyn is scum atm

If Newyn is town and I'm scum, how on earth does he scan me as town?

 

[Newyn]

Legato?

As I said above, me + someone other than the above 3 would leave 2 blockers and a tracker on town's side. In that scenario of me been the only scum of the 4, you're looking at a ridiculously unbalanced game.

backwards

A thought hit me will explain when i get back

But I scried him as town so I don't see where you're going here. I've considered my scries been wrong and this been a setup orchestrated by BL but I can't think of any scum buddy team involving him that makes much sense.

 

[Newyn]

Fake cop claims only work when the scum is not under any pressure, hence your timing. Sure, you could have claimed day 2 or whatever you were under pressure, but that's too early - your bogus claims would have been figured out, especially after the scum didn't kill you. So you claim late like I say to steer the lynches. Making the claim when under pressure is flinchy and not authentic.

Making the claim first thing the next day would have done the job just as well. I usually wake up around when Arakhor updates so I would have had no pressure then. There was no reason to do it a day early and draw potential trackers and blockers my way.

Plus, you have the timeline messed up. I claimed roleblocker after the night ended, so there's no way Snerk could have known I was a blocker before and thus blocked me. He's probably your scum buddy, as if you look back at the spaceman lynch after Winston put you back in the lead Snerk voted space to tie it up.

You claimed roleblocker after the night had ended but you claimed to have cleared people as been the killer the previous day which is an obvious giveaway of been a tracker/blocker.
There was no good reason for him not to block one of you or Auto yesterday night if the scum team is me plus Snerk.

 

[Backwards Logic]

To play devil's advocate with myself, I decided to pretend for a moment Newyn is telling the truth and set about figuring out just how there couldn't be a kill and stumbled upon the rules for combat:

Combat
* The Traitors, including any other characters who can attack someone, may use either their Combat or Magic statistic to attack another character. Your target will defend with the same statistic. Each statistic ranges from 0 -3.
* If you have greater power when attacking, your target is killed. If you have lesser power, they are unhurt and you are injured.
* If you have equal power when attacking or attacked, you are injured. If you are injured again without being healed, you are killed.
* If multiple people are involved in the fight, each side takes the same damage (unwounded, wounded or killed).

We see two important topics: attackers can choose which stat to use, either combat or magic for attack with the defender using the same stat to calculate his/her defense. The second more important tidbit is the third bullet point, where an equal number when attacking or attacked means injury. Specifically no kill.

So it's actually conceivable I missed with the roleblock, as there's an in-game mechanic that explains how this could happen.

Digging further, we look at the kills - we see combat users being downed by magic (Sprig), one magic on magic battle (BSmith) and one combat on combat battle (choxorn). Because the attacker's strength was greater than the defender's, the above died. Last night, I'm speculating there was a shootout with equal numbers.

The above tells me the attackers are shooting blind - outside of the Sprig battle the attackers aren't scanning to check for weaknesses prior to attacking. I would expect the scum have some way to scan for affinity, otherwise they are at a severe disadvantage given the combat system. The best part assuming I'm (finally?) right: one of the scum is now injured. However, this means someone else is injured as well and has not come forth.

Snerk is the only one with a claimed estate scan which would fit what I would think the scum need to operate, plus having the limited roleblock fits something a scum could have. Winston's passive ability claim is now under my scrutiny, along with Auto's ability as a whole (do we even have a claim from him?). Legato gets a pass for now, as at least his day ability checks out. Still, his claimed night ability is suspect.

Snerk, because I'm going to go along with Newyn's analysis now, especially since there's a legitimate secondary reason for there not to be a kill.

See? Perhaps I can be reasonable.

 

[Newyn]

Well, I'm glad you're willing to listen to reason at least. Most people I know would just lynch me and only look things over after they're proven wrong.
You did miss the part that if the attacker has lower power, the attacked isn't injured so there always is the possibility that the scum just failed miserably if failed attacks don't show.

 

[Backwards Logic]

True I did miss that part, but either way the attacker is injured.

 

[Visorslash]

If they attacked me with melee they probably got wrecked tbh

 

[Visorslash]

snerk