NotW XXXI: It's a Long Story (Game Thread)

As I understood it in the design phase, the vampires were (in my opinion) the ones most capable of causing widespread death. They had two chances to kill every night, and could have very quickly overpowered Backwards Logic if the game had aligned that way.

Consider this: The Amurite team could destroy items. If the Hazlett Town Guard had drained 50 gold away from themselves via their faction weakness, they would have received a one-shot thief item. I believe one of the merchants had a PG that allowed them item theft (can't remember exactly which player got this) once completed. BL's amulet was set to explode when he revealed. Once any of those things happened, or BL switched away from mundane abilities protection, ATPG+Csargo could have easily overpowered him. Csargo was strength 4 fairly early in the game. With their huge gold income, I expected the vampires to easily acquire some items.

I should probably clarify that having a higher strength than your attacker did not save you from dying. This is a misconception that seems highly accepted. Backwards Logic did not need his strength.

What I tried to do was structure the teams so that those without a kill ability were very useful or very rich/influential. The public vote was supposed to be their "kill".
 
I guess so. The problem with BL and the Nightwatch is that everything worked perfectly for them. They healed BL fully early on, improved his amulet so it didn't explode, though Love did break it. I'm pleased that the Amurites did so much against him, and wish we could have allied with them when we had the chance. Also, the Hazletts died, the Merchants got outed as the only one who didn't have to kill everyone as their non-flawless victory condition, and the Vampires just totally screwed up what they could have done. The problem with their huge income is that it made them attractive targets for people like us who had no real use for gold, which is why I killed j6. If they'd spread out a bit and not advertised that j6 had that much money, it would have made them look less suspicious.

But yeah, they could have done better, they just kind of screwed up a bit.
 
TheForestAuro said:
As I understood it in the design phase, the vampires were (in my opinion) the ones most capable of causing widespread death. They had two chances to kill every night, and could have very quickly overpowered Backwards Logic if the game had aligned that way.

Consider this: The Amurite team could destroy items. If the Hazlett Town Guard had drained 50 gold away from themselves via their faction weakness, they would have received a one-shot thief item. I believe one of the merchants had a PG that allowed them item theft (can't remember exactly which player got this) once completed. BL's amulet was set to explode when he revealed. Once any of those things happened, or BL switched away from mundane abilities protection, ATPG+Csargo could have easily overpowered him. Csargo was strength 4 fairly early in the game. With their huge gold income, I expected the vampires to easily acquire some items.

I should probably clarify that having a higher strength than your attacker did not save you from dying. This is a misconception that seems highly accepted. Backwards Logic did not need his strength.

What I tried to do was structure the teams so that those without a kill ability were very useful or very rich/influential. The public vote was supposed to be their "kill".
Click to expand...

Having a strength of 2 was pretty disappointing. Considering I had no way to gauge the strength of other characters in game, randomly attacking people would have been suicide. Since if we failed an attack we would lose a strength point, which would effectively make you useless without a strength boosting item.

Once ATPG showed up, one of us would attack with ATPG and then the other would feed on ATPG the next phase. j6 died not long after that, which wasn't good. We would attack but it would take 2 phases to kill anyone for the most part. I think I attacked one person who had a strength of 1 the whole game.

IMHO going around trying to buy items off of people would have looked pretty suspicious. It could just be my inexperience with games like this though.

I played the best I could with what I had to work with.
 
Csargo said:
Once ATPG showed up, one of us would attack with ATPG and then the other would feed on ATPG the next phase. j6 died not long after that, which wasn't good. We would attack but it would take 2 phases to kill anyone for the most part. I think I attacked one person who had a strength of 1 the whole game.
Click to expand...

Autolycus, right?

You should have both attacked the same person or worked with ATPG to attack someone, it would have been much easier to kill people.
 
choxorn said:
Autolycus, right?

You should have both attacked the same person or worked with ATPG to attack someone, it would have been much easier to kill people.
Click to expand...

Possibly, I don't remember.

We did use ATPG. The problem with both attacking the same person is even with one of us using ATPG if the other guy would have had a strength of 3 he would lose one strength from whoever attacked with ATPG. The next attack would fail since both me/j6 would have a strength of two and so would the person we attacked, which I assumed would be a failed attack for us. That's what I thought then.
 
Csargo said:
Possibly, I don't remember.

We did use ATPG. The problem with both attacking the same person is even with one of us using ATPG if the other guy would have had a strength of 3 he would lose one strength from whoever attacked with ATPG. The next attack would fail since both me/j6 would have a strength of two and so would the person we attacked, which I assumed would be a failed attack for us. That's what I thought then.
Click to expand...

If you all descended upon one person I would have totaled your strength.

Also, the changes you describe - such as being any stronger - would have put you above the vast majority of all characters. The point of you not being able to determine strength was to force you to team up with others.

The entire setup was supposed to force teams to begrudgingly work together.

The whole idea of the Undercouncil members not being self-serving is somewhat dubious, at best. In reality, Backwards Logic's character had erred in his judgement, because all the Undercouncil really is, is a bunch of lying cheating bastards who begrudgingly work together for a common goal. In order to be a part of the council, each character had to cheat or steal or lie somehow. There was no "Order" team - there were a team of good-aligned zealots who broke their most sacred vows to exact revenge on one of their most hated foes. Like I had mentioned before, should Backwards Logic have been slain, the game would have opened up Good Victory, Neutral Victory, and Evil Victory. This is because without the oppressive, damning presence of the captain trying to purge all of you, an actual agreement could be arranged upon of the majority of councilors were like-minded. Only BL's character was set on the true extermination of everyone.

While it seemed to some like all being part of a faction severely limited interaction and boiled things down to luck, I'd like to think that a lot of the times that found themselves flailing helplessly did not establish strong connections to other teams. Note that the amurites, after learning of the existence of the Priests of Winter, never once ousted them despite how completely evil, malign, and terrible the goals an illian team might have. Similarly, the lynch of the merchant team was a brilliant move by BL, who set the stage for the lynch-them-if-they-role-reveal mentality that dominated the rest of the game.

"Diamondeye is a vampire!!!!" so? Everyone was obviously either scum or scum in the eyes of scum.

Design notes, yo. ---^
 
I'm pretty sure we wanted to kill everyone, too. ;)
 
TheForestAuro said:
If you all descended upon one person I would have totaled your strength.

Also, the changes you describe - such as being any stronger - would have put you above the vast majority of all characters. The point of you not being able to determine strength was to force you to team up with others.
Click to expand...

Oh, I assumed it would have been separate attacks.

I wasn't questioning how you put together the game, obviously you would know more about the balancing of the game than I would. I was just saying it would have been nice. I also didn't think of trying to work with any other faction.
 
Hmm makes sense. Working together with other factions would have worked.

I assumed that EVERYONE wanted the vampires dead so I never bothered.
 
I'd have worked with you if I'd been freer to act (and if I'd known who you were). Until it came time to put the shiv in, anyway. I have no principles in a free-for-all game.
 
We assumed the same about us. If we knew the Amurites and Illians were willing to work with us, the Amurite-Illian-Ashen Veil alliance would have pwned you all.
 
TFA - some questions I forgot to ask:

How was the sprig/Bad Player tiebreak broken? Didn't they both had 5 votes total against them?

What would have happened if the Council votes had gone the other way -would the Doviello just have changed who got their gold bumped up? What about the ORDER vs. the Govt - and it looks like in retrospect the Order actually didn't do anything, because the Paladins could kill the whol time, right?
 
*cuts Omega's head off*
 
The ghost of the Ritual Murderer returns for a few seconds to punch the Paladins in the face.
 
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