[NFP] November Update Video

[Hakan-i Cihan]

And then I have found this.

Seems like you are right

Why would they blur it in the other screen though?

 

[Josephias]

12 new Heroes

List of heroes:
1. Hercules
2. King Arthur
3. Beowulf
4. Maui
5. Himko
6. Oya
7. Hunahpu and Xbalanque
8. Monkey King Sun Wukong
9. Mulan
10. Anansi
11. Hippolyta
12. ???

So, if it is twelve, and ordered alphabetically in the Screenshot you posted (reposted hidden in the spoiler below), we have

Spoiler :

(Hero name - Lifespan, Movement, Melee Strenght, Ranged Strenght, Range, Charges)
+ Additional habilities

01.Anansi - 27, 3, 60, 72, 1, 6
Agile (Pasive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Woods and Rainforests
Anansi's Tricks (charges): (to be filled)

02.Arthur - 27, 5, 80, -, -, 4
Arthur's Accolade (charges): Genertes Questing Knights (44 CS, 10 lifespan, in video, 2:03)

03.Beowulf - 27, 3, 82, -, -, 6
Rugged (Passive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Hills
Beowulf's Challenge (charges): Immediately destroys units with less combat strenght than him?

04.Hercules - 27, 3, -, -, 88, 6
Rugged (Passive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Hills
Hercules' Labor (Charges): Immediately complete district (shown as costing 2 charges in SS- ¿maybe depends on district?

05.Himiko - 36, 4, -, -, -, 8
Inspiring (Passive): +10 combat strenght, 2-tile aura
Swift (Passive): Ignores terrain movements penalties
Himiko's Charm (Charges): Immediately Levy the army of a CS at no cost, (as per video, 2:12)

06.Hippolyta - 27, 3, 80, -, -, -
Rugged (Passive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Hills
Hippolyta's Favor (Passive): Automatically heals 20 HP/turn
Hippolyta's Command (Targeted, no charges): Something on friendly units (healing?)

07.Hunanpu & Xbalanque (The Twins) - 27, 3, 74, -, -, -
Agile (Pasive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Woods and Rainforests
The Twin's Resurrection (Pasive): Killed units come back as units under your control with full HP/movement.

08.Maui - 27, 3, 76, -, -, 4
Agile (Pasive): Ignores Movement Penalties in Woods and Rainforests
Maui's Inventions (Charged): Creates a Random Bonus or Luxury resource in an unowned, empty plot.

09.Mulan - 27, 5, 54 (to 81), 66, 2, -
Mulan's Defiance (Passive): Fortifies automatically at end of turn.
Mulan's Devotion (Passive): Gains +1 combat strenght per turn (therefore final melee strenght would be 81. I assume ranged strenght does not change as only the sword icon is shown, otherwise ranged would go up to 93)

Not shown in SS

10. Oya (as per video, 2:15) - 27, 3, 66, -, -, 6
Oya's Storm: Damages all adjencent enemies and heals 40HP to all adjacent owned units

11. ?? (see below) ??

12. Sun Wukong (video, 2:30)
Swift (Passive): Ignores terrain movements penalties
Sun Wukong's Disguise (Passive): Hidden unless adjacent to enemies
Sun Wukong's Immortality (Passive): Significantly Increased Lifespan


#11 Does not seem to appear in the video... or yes

Spoiler #11 is :

It does not appear in the video except for the game mode image. .

we have an unnamed middle eastern guy among the pack, and all other faces are listed heroes (Anansi, Mulan, Sun Wukong and Beowulf)

This, and the alfabetical order lead me to think him to be Sinbad (that's why #11 spot is reserved instead of #12), which fills the Middle Eastern quota, with also a nod to Indian mith (as many of his travels are on Southeast asia). And is also a very recognizable character everywere.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm slightly relieved we are not getting Sumer as well

I meant Sumeria; it's just that "Sumer" is the usual term in academic literature so writing "Sumeria" feels weird for me.

Screams Horse Archer to me, to be honest
Screams Assyria to me, to be honest. :eyeroll:

Yeah, a horse unit is not at all what I'd expect for Babylon, though I'll cut them a little slack because Hammurabi was Amorite. Firaxis sure does love their cavalry UUs.

A unique water mill, really? Irrigation networks really weren’t that unique by the time of the Babylonian Empire, and I feel like a focus like that should be reserved for an Indus Valley civilisation if we ever got one (which is admittedly unlikely).

It’s just so generic for the time period. Maybe it would be too predictable, but I would have preferred a library or ancient walls replacement, because at least those would be justifiable.

That's why I said I wish Sumer had gotten the irrigation works and Babylon had gotten the ziggurat or a tablet house or literally anything else. I don't think we'll ever get the Indus Valley Civilization, though. We have no clue what language they spoke, nor do we know anything about their leaders. They are essentially an archaeological culture, which is a really bad fit for Civ. I think we'll have to be satisfied with their inclusion in Humankind.

 

[AaronTBD]

There's more Mulans than just those! The Ballad of Mulan dates from the 5th century/ Northern Wei period, though it's a very different story!

To be fair anything is better than the remake

 

[Starina]

They are definitely playing at Quick Speed.

Yes, 330 turns total. It's for Quick Speed

Theory: Eureka grants the Technology.

I agree with you!
Babylon has NO EUREKs, but at the same time the penalty to the development of science is 50%. What could be more scientific than the absence (or their minimum) of campuses !?
So:
at 0:35 we have a palace (+2 sciences) and 2 citizens (0.5 * 2 = 1). Total should be +3 per turn, but Babylon only has 1.5
The same mathematics and at 1:35: +2 from the palace, +2 from citizens and +1 from iron. But in the end, only 2.5.
Babylon is changing the perception of scientific civilization! FXS THANKS !!!! It is very cool!!!
You don't have to build campuses, but there will be few great people ... well, okay!
Difficulties can arise in the last two eras, and you say that Babylon will die, as in life ... BUT! there are spies, Abdus Salam and Sky and Stars of Golden age
You may say: interesting, but in the video the researched technologies have eureka! Yes, I think this is just a graphic effect. In the tree of China, it is also 40%, but eureka gives 50%

What do you think?

 

[hhhhhh]

Hercules has 88 combat strength?

Maybe strength goes down each time you kill, so you have to save it. Like you can only use it 12 times before it becomes completely useless.

 

[8housesofelixir]

It seems that the suzerain ability of the original Babylon city-state will be directly passed to Anshan, which means that we probably will not see "great writings give science" ability for the Babylon civ.

(Kind of sad though, collecting Great Works for things other than tourism is a fun mini game (see Kongo).)

All the hero choices looks interesting. Looking forward to play with them, as well as the new CS - I'm thrilled that we can have a Central Asian CS now.

(And just want to point out that Himiko is not really obscure - she is famous in East Asia and literally everyone in Japan know her. Also, interestingly, she is the only historical figure among the new Heros.)

 

[hhhhhh]

Leugi (over on a Discord) has identified what appears to be a unique Water Mill potentially (south of the city, next to the farm):

View attachment 574783

Is it just me or is the monument not upright?

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Can Voidsinger's Obelisk hold heroic works? Or can they even recruit heroes given they don't have monuments?

It seems that hero mode is a giant nerf to Voidsingers?

The Old Gods Obelisk has all the abilities the regular monument has (+1 culture, +1 loyalty if not full loyalty); the Gilded Vault has all the abilities of the bank; the Alchemist Society has all the abilities of the University. It would be very odd if the Old Gods Obelisk suddenly starts loosing some abilities from the base monument. It would just be able to hold two Heroes Relics and one regular Relic.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I agree with you!
Babylon has NO EUREKs, but at the same time the penalty to the development of science is 50%. What could be more scientific than the absence (or their minimum) of campuses !?
So:
at 0:35 we have a palace (+2 sciences) and 2 citizens (0.5 * 2 = 1). Total should be +3 per turn, but Babylon only has 1.5
The same mathematics and at 1:35: +2 from the palace, +2 from citizens and +1 from iron. But in the end, only 2.5.
Babylon is changing the perception of scientific civilization! FXS THANKS !!!! It is very cool!!!What do you think?

That does not explain how Babylon was able to bulb Pottery (a tech that has no Eureka) by killing a spearman with a slinger inside their territory.

I think the bonus is more straight-forward (and less creative). Kill a unit inside borders, get science. or, kill a more advanced unit, get science. Or, get science the first time a unit of each type scores a kill. Something amongst those lines.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

That does not explain how Babylon was able to bulb Pottery (a tech that has no Eureka) by killing a spearman with a slinger inside their territory.

I think the bonus is more straight-forward (and less creative). Kill a unit inside borders, get science. or, kill a more advanced unit, get science. Or, get science the first time a unit of each type scores a kill. Something amongst those lines.

As I said, I think the "get science when a unit is killed" is unlikely because we saw no science yield from the kill of the barbarian spearman (unlike when Gorgo kills a unit and we see the Culture yield coming from the corpse signifying they get the bonus). Plus, when heroes killed units in the rest of the video, they gain no science bonus (it might be barbarian units or on the territory, but still I find it unlikely).

 

[Zaarin]

I'm thrilled that we can have a Central Asian CS now.

Depending on definitions of Central Asia (which, granted, vary considerably), we already have one in Kabul.

 

[UWHabs]

That does not explain how Babylon was able to bulb Pottery (a tech that has no Eureka) by killing a spearman with a slinger inside their territory.

I think the bonus is more straight-forward (and less creative). Kill a unit inside borders, get science. or, kill a more advanced unit, get science. Or, get science the first time a unit of each type scores a kill. Something amongst those lines.

I don't think they get pottery from the kill. I think the kill is giving 2 eurekas (archery, bronze working) and both techs as well, and pottery stays partially researched.

 

[Meluhhan]

Not having Rama or some other Indian hero is weird.

Many figures from Indian mythology and lore including the aforementioned Rama and Hanuman have been extensively deified and are subject to veneration and active worship in Hinduism and other Dharmic religions today. While I personally don't mind seeing them as playable characters fighting under the command of the player and possibly being killed and dying, it might be misperceived as offensive by others. Depiction of Indian/Hindu culture in Western media has been receiving increased and at times unfavourable attention in India. In times like these when one can easily politicise perceived slights of one's religion and manufacture outrage on social media with the help of troll bot armies, of which we are seeing a lot of examples in India and elsewhere, I can understand why Firaxis might have refrained from including them.
If one wants to include legendary Indian heroic figures, one can always look to the large corpus of secular Indian literature though. Figures like Vikramaditya, Bharata, Khamba, or even some Vedic entities or non-deified figures known for their heroic exploits(whose inclusion wouldn't necessarily evoke emotional responses) like Indra or Arjuna are outrage proof, non-controversial choices for this mode.

I would rather they had Hanuman instead of Sun Wukong....Unless Hanuman would offend Hindu people somehow.

Aren't Heroes supposed to be mortal units in this mode? Ironically, Hanuman is one of the Chiranjeevi, immortal figures who are to remain alive till the end of this age.

 

[Tech Osen]

the Gilded Vault has all the abilities of the bank

Except that you don't get the two extra great work slots from the ability of the great merchant Giovanni de' Medici.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

They sure like to make new civ colours very similar to existing ones, eh? Ethiopia's was very similar to Arabia's, and now Babylon's colours look almost identical to Maya's.

Ethiopia's colors are not similar to Arabia's, they are identical. That is the only case where 2 civs have identical primary jerseys.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Aren't Heroes supposed to be mortal units in this mode? Ironically, Hanuman is one of the Chiranjeevi, immortal figures who are to remain alive till the end of this age.

The description of Sun Wukong literally says "A hero known for his cunning and immortality" (or something like that)

 

[Starina]

That does not explain how Babylon was able to bulb Pottery (a tech that has no Eureka) by killing a spearman with a slinger inside their territory.

I'm not 100% sure that Pottery has been studied at 0:37
And the science of killing is boring. As well as Gorgo herself. This is a repetition, I'm sure not

 

[Datgingah]

I am redoing the Maths: at 1:38 we can see the Babylonian are researching Engineering at turn 38 with 2.5 Science per turn, with ~10% completed and 59 turns remaining.

Engineering cost is 200 Science, +10% due to be classical technology while the world era is ancient, so 220 Science. If they need 59 × 2.5 = 147.5 Science to complete it, they should have completed 72.5 Science yet... which is far more than 10%! This is more 33%! Which means they are playing at Quick Speed.
At Quick Speed, the Science cost drops to 220 × 0.75 = 165 Science. If 147.5 Science need to be done to do this, this means 17.5 Science was poured in the Technology which is ~10.6%. They are definitely playing at Quick Speed.

Unlocking Engineering need to unlock the Wheel (80 × 0.75 = 60 Science) and Mining (25 × 0.75 = 18.75 Science). No way they could cumulate 88.75 Science, not including Bronze Working (Encampment) and Mining (we can see a Mine). They seems to be able to complete a Settler because they have a second city in the South.

• Pottery's cost: 18.75 Science. Done: ~11.25 Science.
• Animal Husbandry's cost: 18.75 Science. Done?
  • Archery's cost: 37.5 Science. At least 22.5 Science with standard Eureka.
• Mining's cost: 18.75. It is done (Builder can put a Mine on a Hill).
  • Bronze Working's cost: 60 Science. At least 36 Science with standard Eureka.

In total: 106.25 Science. What they could have: 1.5 × 19 = 28.5, more or less with a city at 1 Population at start, or if they completed a Settlers, dropping the Population.

Theory: Eureka grants the Technology. Which means:

• No need to have Animal Husbandry be completed for Archery.
• If so, they only need Mining completed (18.75 Science) and the Pottery one (11.25), so 30 Science. Which seems to fit.

I guess they do have a Eureka grants Technology. Maybe it is limited to the world current era and can't have all technologies with the Eureka. I don't think they are researching Engineering at random: could we have the Walls of Babylon in this game?

Perhaps instead of the Eureka granting the technology, the Eureka grants the science it normally would, as well as a flat science boost of whatever the Eureka was. So if the Eureka provided 30 science, they'd get that as well as an extra 30 science that turn to what they're currently researching (or some percent of it).

The Eureka granting the whole technology would hard outpace China imo, so I'm not sure they'd go so far.

 

[Starina]

The Eureka granting the whole technology would hard outpace China imo, so I'm not sure they'd go so far.

But China has no penalty to science.
As well as China's ability to influence inspiration