[NFP] November Update Video

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well this looks to be one of my favorite gamemodes. I don't mind at all that they are mythological heroes. It might be a little bit overpowered but I think Hercules should get well 12 charges if we want to be accurate.

As for Babylon itself I'm very curious as to what the UU will be. It seems like it might not replace anything though I guess it could replace a Heavy Chariot as that hasn't been spotted yet, correct?

I will say I'm kind of not to impressed with the possibility of a watermill replacement, though at least it's better than ancient walls. I was hoping for a library that could hold great work slots though maybe that could still be part of their ability.


Out of all the civs they announced, Babylon would be one of the last civs I would expect to not being able to build a campus, especially a library.


According to the Nintendo eshop leak they said Babylon focuses on science, government, and infrastructure. Government seems to point to some culture bonuses and I'm going to assume that Hammurabi could at least start the game with Code of Laws.

From the look of this video, the UA is going to be Science and the unique infrastructure will be the infrastructure bonus.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

From the look of this video, the UA is going to be Science and the unique infrastructure will be the infrastructure bonus.

Yeah I just meant that the Government bonuses from the leak would be for Hammurabi, which for reasons they didn't reveal that part yet in the video.

 

[God of Kings]

It would be great if a future version included such heroes as Paul Bunyan, John Henry (the African American railroad worker), Rama (from Ramayana), Enkidu, Robin Hood, Odysseus, Nanabozho, and Ilya Muromets.

 

[onepurpose]

It would be great if a future version included such heroes as Paul Bunyan, John Henry (the African American railroad worker), Rama (from Ramayana), Enkidu, Robin Hood, Odysseus, Nanabozho, and Ilya Muromets.

johnny appleseed, william tell, sigfried...

 

[DanQuayle]

I am redoing the Maths: at 1:38 we can see the Babylonian are researching Engineering at turn 38 with 2.5 Science per turn, with ~10% completed and 59 turns remaining.

Engineering cost is 200 Science, +10% due to be classical technology while the world era is ancient, so 220 Science. If they need 59 × 2.5 = 147.5 Science to complete it, they should have completed 72.5 Science yet... which is far more than 10%! This is more 33%! Which means they are playing at Quick Speed.
At Quick Speed, the Science cost drops to 220 × 0.75 = 165 Science. If 147.5 Science need to be done to do this, this means 17.5 Science was poured in the Technology which is ~10.6%. They are definitely playing at Quick Speed.

Unlocking Engineering need to unlock the Wheel (80 × 0.75 = 60 Science) and Mining (25 × 0.75 = 18.75 Science). No way they could cumulate 88.75 Science, not including Bronze Working (Encampment) and Mining (we can see a Mine). They seems to be able to complete a Settler because they have a second city in the South.

• Pottery's cost: 18.75 Science. Done: ~11.25 Science.
• Animal Husbandry's cost: 18.75 Science. Done?
  • Archery's cost: 37.5 Science. At least 22.5 Science with standard Eureka.
• Mining's cost: 18.75. It is done (Builder can put a Mine on a Hill).
  • Bronze Working's cost: 60 Science. At least 36 Science with standard Eureka.

In total: 106.25 Science. What they could have: 1.5 × 19 = 28.5, more or less with a city at 1 Population at start, or if they completed a Settlers, dropping the Population.

Theory: Eureka grants the Technology. Which means:

• No need to have Animal Husbandry be completed for Archery.
• If so, they only need Mining completed (18.75 Science) and the Pottery one (11.25), so 30 Science. Which seems to fit.

I guess they do have a Eureka grants Technology. Maybe it is limited to the world current era and can't have all technologies with the Eureka. I don't think they are researching Engineering at random: could we have the Walls of Babylon in this game?

The penalty for researching technologies one or more eras ahead is 20%.
The multiplier to convert science costs to quick speed is 0.66 (330/500).
For the Engineering example, 240 * 0.66 = 158.4 science; 158.4 - 147.5 = 10.9 science which is ~6.9% or ~4.4 turns of research
This looks consistent with the research bar progress.

As mentioned, the Babylon ability seems to be the following: Half science output, Eurekas grant the full tech
You probably don't need the prerequisite techs, to unlock them.

If this is the case:
Science is pretty much meaningless all early game. In fact, it is a non-factor for all techs that you can unlock with an eureka.
This ability looks very powerful to beeline key techs early (like military / unit unlocking ones)
My first impression however is that it will not be a good candidate civ for science speed runs, because the most costly techs at the end of tree cannot be unlocked by eurekas
The only way I could see make it work is if you conquer pretty much the whole map, build the science buildings in the late game to get a huge science output at the right time something like 3000bpt halved to 1500bpt
Probably the fastest civ right before Chemistry/Rocketry, but the late game will be slow.

 

[Zaarin]

It would be great if a future version included such heroes as Paul Bunyan, John Henry (the African American railroad worker), Rama (from Ramayana), Enkidu, Robin Hood, Odysseus, Nanabozho, and Ilya Muromets.

Disturbing content warning, but Tomson Highway's Dry Lips Oughta Move to Kapuskasing is an interesting modern take on the Nanabush myth by a Cree playwright.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It would be great if a future version included such heroes as Paul Bunyan, John Henry (the African American railroad worker), Rama (from Ramayana), Enkidu, Robin Hood, Odysseus, Nanabozho, and Ilya Muromets.

Odysseus: Can create a Trojan Horse unit as the ultimate siege weapon and automatically takes any city it's adjacent to.

At least it sounds better than him sailing around the world for who knows how many turns.

 

[AriochIV]

Odysseus: Can create a Trojan Horse unit as the ultimate siege weapon and automatically takes any city it's adjacent to.

At least it sounds better than him sailing around the world for who knows how many turns.

Although that would be extremely amusing.

 

[Zaarin]

At least it sounds better than him sailing around the world for who knows how many turns.

Does it, though?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Although that would be extremely amusing.

Does it, though?

Well I guess he does need a passive ability. I guess it would be amusing if he can only move with auto explore the whole game as well.

 

[returnofbabylon]

just Portugal, which is my guess for the final Civ

This does seem likely, since they've probably used up too many staples to do another season, and it's hard to see Portugal missing out.

That said, I think the best strategy from a profits perspective would be an American native civ as the last from NFP, then a final capstone DLC with Portugal and Italy. I doubt it happens though.

 

[Xandinho]

This does seem likely, since they've probably used up too many staples to do another season, and it's hard to see Portugal missing out.

That said, I think the best strategy from a profits perspective would be an American native civ as the last from NFP, then a final capstone DLC with Portugal and Italy. I doubt it happens though.

And an alternative Egyptian leader.

Please don't let the hype die.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

And an alternative Egyptian leader.

Please don't let the hype die.

Packaged with a Berber civ.

 

[bite]

Each Hero has a special hidden ability:
Disney Character: At the end of each turn, the Hero will burst into an expository musical number.

Firaxis just be sitting their going You're Welcome on every turn

 

[AaronTBD]

Odysseus: Can create a Trojan Horse unit as the ultimate siege weapon and automatically takes any city it's adjacent to.

At least it sounds better than him sailing around the world for who knows how many turns.

Secret Unique Ability: Hat: Can turn adjacent units into your own for 10 turns

 

[Askia Muhammad]

Awesome! If my eyes don’t deceive me it looks like we’re getting Rumi (medieval Writer), Margaret Mead (atomic Scientist) and Ibn Khaldun as new great people, and they confirmed we’re getting more representation from the underrepresented regions of the world in that regard.

I can't believe they left out Ibn Khaldun. Maybe its just the fact I am a historian of Islam (in Africa) but damn the lack of some of these people is incredibly disappointing.

Well this looks to be one of my favorite gamemodes. I don't mind at all that they are mythological heroes. It might be a little bit overpowered but I think Hercules should get well 12 charges if we want to be accurate.

I wonder if we get truly diverse mythological heroes. I'd like to see them do Sundiata Kieta and his epic.

 

[Evie]

Generally speaking, they seem to be trying to spread out to different mythological and legendary corpus, without going too far (if they can) from figures that have a fair amount of recognition to a western audience - Arthur and Hercules are household names, Mulan and Maui have the greatest western media empire advertising them the world over, Beowulf and Sun Wukong are probably as recognizable a Northern European (Sigurd is the only other contestant) or Chinese hero as it gets without Disney. Hippolyta may be a tad more obscure, but, well, you mention the Amazons and that's instant recognition, and Anansi is by very far the most recognizable figure from all Subsaharan mythologies. Oya (see Anansi above) and Hunahpu and Xbalanque probably get in on the simple virtue that nobody from their respective region is especially recognizable, except out and out deities

Which is a solid point in Sinbad's favor - given the above, you just know that if there's an Arabian hero in the game, it's going to be one of the figures associated with the 1001 Nights (and not actually part of it: all the figures most famously associated with the 1001 nights are not actually part of the early versions of the text) - probably one of Ali Baba, Aladdin and Sinbad. Aladdin is way better known, but Aladdin at this point is...well, let's be honest, at this point, Aladdin's origin, tales and evolutiosn are so muddled that it's probably fair to describe it today as mostly western folklore about a character living somewhere in the Exotic Orient, not a hero of Arabian folklore. Sinbad, in comparison, is much more closer to his roots as a hero of Arabian stories about a character living in Arabia. Ali Baba is a distant third to those two.

Himiko's a little out of place here, given that the whole point of Himiko is that she doesn't show up in the Japanese national epics despite being actually known to exist from non-japanese sources. But then again, surprisingly hard to find legendary figures from Japan who aren't somehow either gods or the Imperial Clan or both.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I wonder if we get truly diverse mythological heroes. I'd like to see them do Sundiata Kieta and his epic.

From the looks of it I think there is one from the Islamic World. I think it might be Sinbad.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

Packaged with a Berber civ.

Are you opting for a blob Berber civ? or a specific group like Sanhaja?

Off-topic (your signature) - Do you think they'd include Benin or especially Dahomey given their extensive involvement in slave raiding and the trans-Atlantic slave trade? They have shunned leaders for far less (Muhammad Toure from Civ 5).

 

[Zaarin]

Off-topic (your signature) - Do you think they'd include Benin or especially Dahomey given their extensive involvement in slave raiding and the trans-Atlantic slave trade? They have shunned leaders for far less (Muhammad Toure from Civ 5).

That didn't prevent them from including Kongo and Mvemba a Nzinga.