Now THIS is a bad start!

[tR1cKy]

.... and the tax officer ringing at your bell

@sennomulo: what goody huts? i'm playing with no barbs

@ Gogf: yes, i'm considering the idea of asking the mods to have this thread moved in the "stories and tales" forum, but it's too early. If i lose...

It's 925bc - 13 turns left for peace with Egypt. That damn settler popped from Thebes is egyptian! After a few curses, i came up with the idea of playing a variant:
- No city razing.
- Intentional starvation of cities is forbidden.
- Starvation is allowed if the governor is turned on and he decides to starve in order to avoid civil disorder.
- Only cities with pop 1 can be abandoned.
- New cities can only be founded by a foreign settler.
This set of rules will leave me prone to unreasonable culture flips, so i'll add an extra "good" rule:
- Turn reload is allowed if garrisoned troops are at least 2x local population and the city flips. This ratio is raised to 3x if there are resistors or if the city is in civil disorder.

Next play session tonight, now it's worktime.

 

[Aleph-Null]

I'll tell you a bad start. I started on a small island that was nothing but desert with absolutely no resources and there were ocean squares surrounding me. Needless to say...

 

[tR1cKy]

@Chris1111: without the "no cities on tundra limitation", that wouldn't be a terrible start, assuming there is other landmass connected by coastal waters. I would have moved the settler in the tile NW of cows and built my capital there. (Yeah, i know, 5 turns wasted)

@kenScott: that is the type of game i would have reloaded without even thinking about a try. Not only because you are stuck there till late middle age, but the game would be just plain boring.

I'm not sure what to do with this thread. It started as a discussion on my bad start (and on bad starts in general), and it partially turned on a chronicle of a (wannabe) epic game. Should i:
1) Quit the "epic game" stuff and start a new thread about it in the Stories and Tales section.
2) Go on with the story and have the 2 topics merge together.

Any opinion? Thanx for the feedback.

 

[china444]

YOu could ask a mod for them to move this to the S&T's forum.

 

[tR1cKy]

690BC - i knew that bad news would have come...
Only 3 turn before my peace treaty with Egypt expires, 2 greek units, a swordsman and a hoplite, cross my border. There's no way they could be only passing about. Their intention is clear.
Damn greeks! Alex is polite, and we have an active trade (4gpt for wines). But rep hits are irrelevant between AS...

My 1st thought: change plan, send the amassed archers straight to Athens.
My 2nd: don't be idiot.
Athens is a size 12 town built on a hill. Great. Hoplites defending at 6. And since a) it has a wonder b) it's building another one c) it's the capital and d) it's close to my border, i can expect at least 4 or 5 defending units garrisoned, probably veterans. At the moment i have 13 archer divisions to lay on the battlefield. I would need at least 2x that number to have a viable chance to take Athens.

What to do, then? Pillaging? Pointless, and i'll surely lose units. Cleo has conceded a ROP to Greece, so Thebes, Romola and Memphis are all at risk. No, this time humble tR1cKy will merely defend its territory, and beg for peace ASAP. My rich coffers will help if necessary. I'm quite confident that i'll be able to keep hellenic scum out of my sacred land. The only question mark is: how many units i'm going to lose? If everything goes ok, my invasion on Egypt will be delayed only for a few turn. Not a big deal.

Alex. Don't take it easy, you dirty scumbag. You'll pay dearly for this outrage. It's only a matter of time before my legions will knock at your door.

I'm going to ask the green morons to get out my land. This will give me the advantage of a first strike. As expected, they declare. With my newly build catapult i manage to weaken the hoplite. Then i get rid of it with an archer. A second archer is lost to fight the swordsman; the third kills.
To the north, i bravely order my peasants to build the road on the irrigated land. 2 extra spears are moved to defend them. An archer and a horse attack. 2 spears redlined, but still alive. The first turn of war has been successful for me.

In the interturn, Romola and Thebes finish to build their fortification walls. It won't be easy to take over my cities. Bring it on, baby. Bring it on!

 

[Chieftess]

Now *THIS* is a bad start!

Just for fun... Huge world, max agression, Sid level, arid, cold, 3 billion, and the game started me where the green circle is... (atleast I have 4 oasises...)

Now, were this a real game, I'd be taking advantage of the Maya-Aztec war right now... (with my 4-5 desert cities.) or atleast trying to.

 

[sennomulo]

@sennomulo: what goody huts? i'm playing with no barbs

I was talking about the other map that was posted with the tundra island.

Don't forget to turn off "preserve random seed" if you want to play with game reloading.

 

[tR1cKy]

@Chieftess: honestly, it doesn't seem so ugly, excepting for the 2 turns wasted to find a decent place for your capital. I don't have C3C, but, judging from the screenshot, you are producing 2 extra food per turns. This means 2 food for oasis tiles - at least, you can poop a decent number of settlers from Zimbabwe.
I've noted a serious mistake: you are spending 50% of your budget for research, but you're stuck at 50 turns to complete it. Money wasted every turn.

Have you progressed with the game or was it just a test-start?

 

[bonscott]

tR1cKy,

I would immediately bribe the Aztecs and/or Americans to attack the Greeks from the north. This should keep any hordes off your back. Just sit back and kill anything that comes your way but don't go on the offensive just yet. Work on the Egyptian cities at the same time and take then out. Then all you'd need to worry about is Greece. You should be able to take out the Greek city to the southwest across the Egyptian lands with the archers you'll use to attack Egypt. I tell you though, you really need a bunch of cats to help out here.

 

[tR1cKy]

Thanx for the advice bonscott. However...

1) Alliances. Already tried. No way.
Atzland has an active trade with Greece, and also a ROP. America has the active trade only, but it's enough. Both of them "would never accept such a deal", unless i toss in some tech (that i don't have) or a huge amount of money (same story). Once again, i'm alone in this fight.

2) Attack on Thermopylae. I considered the idea, and rejected it.
I cannot risk moving the necessary troops so far away from my cities. It would take 8 turns for the expedition corps only to reach the target. Greece has a ROP with Egypt, so they could skirmish on me successfully. And if, in the meantime, Cleo will decide to "take measures" against my troops crossing her territory, things would be even worse.

3) Strategy: yeah, a defensive posture is the only right move now. Troops concentrated in the 3 border cities. Defense of the road between Romola and Thebes. Skirmish against greek troops venturing into my land (they WILL come, for sure). A prayer to the RNG gods to not punish me too much would also be a good idea.

Tonight i'm going to play again. Stay tuned, folks!

EDIT: post #200

 

[Aleph-Null]

@Chris1111: without the "no cities on tundra limitation", that wouldn't be a terrible start, assuming there is other landmass connected by coastal waters. I would have moved the settler in the tile NW of cows and built my capital there. (Yeah, i know, 5 turns wasted)

@kenScott: that is the type of game i would have reloaded without even thinking about a try. Not only because you are stuck there till late middle age, but the game would be just plain boring.

I'm not sure what to do with this thread. It started as a discussion on my bad start (and on bad starts in general), and it partially turned on a chronicle of a (wannabe) epic game. Should i:
1) Quit the "epic game" stuff and start a new thread about it in the Stories and Tales section.
2) Go on with the story and have the 2 topics merge together.

Any opinion? Thanx for the feedback.

Of course I restarted it!!! After I realized I was stuck on a piece of small desert island worse than australia I high-tailed it out of there!

 

[sennomulo]

Also, start sending out suicide galleys as soon as you discover Map Making. The other civs might help you get the techs you need for bribery and there could still be unclaimed land out there.

 

[Aleph-Null]

tricky, you will have the wall built in one turn. This is a size 3 city so it will have an effect at fending off the swordsman. You have a spearman. I'd move that spearman into your city but it looks well defended, so put it on the gold mountain, you don't want those bastards pillaging that and you don't have to defend that road there, that city is already connected. Greece will not attack with your wall in place. So you shouldn't worry about war with Greece (on this turn). Once the wall is built, he'll cancel his plans to attack if he has any.

If you're going to war with Egypt I'd stay off on the capital and go for the horses and iron first. You can wait for the luxuries until afterwards. Greece has a horseman so obviously they have a horse resource. My question is, where are they getting it from? Are they getting their horses and iron from Egypt? Do they have their own? The best tactical move would be to nail that city with the iron and horses if that's their common source. But I'd need to see other sections of the map.

Remola is right next to Thebes and is well insulated from attack. I'd move your spearman that you have in Remola to Thebes and your units in Rome to Remola. Next turn, go from Remola to Romola or Memphis again where ever you want to stage your next attack. You do not need strong defenses in your center. If you lose your outter cities you are toast. Take those units that are safe and in the back and move them out to your perimeter. You do not need defenses in those cities right now. If you lose your outer perimeter you're going to lose your inner cities so drop the D in the capital and defend your frontier.

 

[Aleph-Null]

Also, make sure those cities are harvesting that gold. That extra commerce could be the difference that helps you finish polytheism a little quicker and grab that monarchy government you're going for.

 

[bonscott]

Yep, Greece must be getting Horses from Egypt. I see two Horses in Egypt, one up by Alexandria and another by Heliopolis. First things first is to take Alexandria and pillage the other Horse. This will get you a horse plus should knock out the trade to the Greeks. This will deny them Horses.

Alexandria should be easier to fortify like the other cities you got. Then move your forces to take the two Egyptian cities to the west and get that iron before Egypt can build pikes! Don't stop there, keep on going and get that last city of Egypt gone and knock then out of the game. Take that Greek city to the west as well assuming you are still at war with them. You can do it, you just need two forces. One defensive in your border cities with enough counterstrike power to hold back the Greeks (1 or 2 cats in each border city will do nicely) and a main offensive force with Archers and cats moving west.

You'll be sitting pretty in probably 20 turns with 2 horses, iron and a ton of gems. The extra horse and the gems may be enough to get the Aztecs to your side assuming the Greeks are still be a hassle.

EDIT: I see you already have iron down by Rome! Get some swordsman built I say!! Screw them archers.

 

[microbe]

Romola was founded at a weird place: not on river, too close to Memphis, and not have the wheat immediately. The only upside is it's on hills.

 

[Aleph-Null]

You've got plenty of gold. I'd go into negative gpt to get up in science. Athens is size 12. Their science is probably pretty damn good compared to your puny cities.

Heliopolis needs to be your number 1 objective right now. Grab that before going to Alexandria. You'll cut off the iron and horse to Greece and Egypt in one move. Why Helipolis first? Because it has a road connecting it to Greece and the other Egyptian cities. If you take out Heliopolis there is no road to Alexandria. They won't be able to trade to Greece, plus they won't be able to use that horse to build any horse units in their other city. Also, I'll bet good money that Heliopolis is being used as a trade route for Greece to those gems. Egypt is giving Greece gems. Take out those Gems and Greece is suddenly not a 'happy' civ anymore.

So, Heliopolis:

1. cut off horse & iron & gem trade to Greece.

Right now Alexandria horses are going to Alexandria only. Its not connected to anything, so its not your priority.

to hades with going on defense! take Heliopolis and you have this game won.

additional screenshots of other areas of the map would be helpful.

the spearman that you have positioned above Thebes that I suggested you move to the gold mine? find another spearman for the goldmine. Keep that spearman there, he is in the ideal place for your attack on Heliopolis. The second you start your attack take that worker by Alexandria, he's trying to build a road through Greece connecting his cities and horsetrade

 

[sennomulo]

I bet some of those Greek wines are going to Egypt too. Another incentive to strike at Heliopolis.

 

[Aleph-Null]

damn it! I love this. Civ 3 forum. I'm at work and can't play so this makes it seem like I am!

 

[Aleph-Null]

double post again... hmm..