Now THIS is a bad start!

About the combat settler technique - do you really suffer a rep hit if you declare war just before founding the city? (on the turn landing the settler in this case, and then building the city the following turn. Although of course then you are at risk of being attacked before the city is built...)
 
Great story so far Tr1cky. Ive been lurking on it from the beginning and have definitly learned a few nice tricks. This thread convinced me of the value of catapults and trebuchets, i never built arty before cannons until my last game. Also, i learned to swallow my national pride and abandon cities. It used to be a fight to the death, but i smashed a korean offensive yesterday by abandoning 3(!) cities to concentrate my own forces. It sounds so bass ackwards, but it worked better then i ever could have imagined.

I still dont use "forts," but ill give em a go sometime. there just hasnt been a situation where they seemed feasible so far. Anyway, keep it up. Thanks for the log :cool:
 
The Fjonis said:
About the combat settler technique - do you really suffer a rep hit if you declare war just before founding the city? (on the turn landing the settler in this case, and then building the city the following turn. Although of course then you are at risk of being attacked before the city is built...)

Well, you always suffer some rep hit if you just declare war on the AI first. If you use a combat settler in this way you most likely would be at war anyway. Reason? You have to land that settler and all the troops. The AI is going to tell you go get out or declare war. Obviously you'd have to declare war to stay. You'll take a rep hit at this time (but not as great a one if you aren't currently trading with them, make sure all your trades are expired if you don't want a serious rep hit). Then you'll found your fort already at war.

If by some chance the AI doesn't force you to declare war then you will have to declare to found the fort.

So either way you declare war first which will give you some sort of rep hit. One thing you could do is declare war first, *then* land your troops, and this probably would be less of a rep hit.
 
And here we are again! About the "combat fort", the only way to avoid a reputation hit is: 1) declare war 2) enter enemy territory 3) build the fort.

@bonscott: you suffer an attitude hit when you declare war on a civ.
But if you act in a honourable way your reputation remains intact.

@AndrewH: that's exactly what i did in the early game...

@Hatework: thanks for the support!

This time i'm going a little off-style again. It's hard to write even a small story that way. In english, at least. Don't know enough words :( Hope you like it.

Playing time now. Expect something else. Seeya!

-------------------------------------------------------

1280AD - Sailing through hostile waters

Captain Livius wasn't happy at all.

When young, he ofter had dreams about being the first captain in the history of Rome to lead a naval invasion. Now that his dream had finally come true, he realized that "nightmare" was by far a more appropriate word to describe it.

He was wondering why the Roman Crown, in its infinite wisdom, had never put in place a serious effort to build proper war ships. All this emphasis in building an unstoppable land army, and so much little attention to the issues of naval warfare. The result were under his eyes. A task force made of two obsolete caravel fleets and nothing more.

The roman Caravel were in no way bad vessels. Fast, agile, and capable of trasporting a good quantity of both cargo and troops. Obviously, a ship made for transport duties tend to lack the necessary firepower to confront an enemy war vessel. So escorts were necessary. And there lied the problem. Escorts. There were none. And not because of laziness or incompetence by the admirality. The reason was much simpler. Rome had no war ships. Not a single one.

Those two joined caravel fleets represented all the naval force or Rome. Two fleets trasporting 6 cavalry divisions for the planned attack on Miami. Two fleets that would suddenly turn into sitting ducks in case some american frigates were patrolling the zone. Sitting ducks that would sink along with all the 6 mounted divisions inside them.

The cavalrymen were nervous as well, with very good reasons. Strong men, well trained and undoubtly courageous. All of them were veterans of the battle of Boston. They all saw deathin its face, but it was always the face of a visible enemy, armed with a rifle, struggling to kill them before they could kill it. That was an enemy that those men could confront light-hearted and with a smile in their face.

But this time, death could come from nowhere, unexpected and unnoticed, at any time. It was an enemy they weren't trained to confront. It was like a ghost, found nowhere but always present. Their mounts were even more nervous. Some sailors had to be assigned to them. They were doing their best to calm them down.

The air was cold and humid, as the captain expected it to be while sailing into a bank of fog. Usually Livius despised fog. It made sailing into open waters a nasty hazard, but this time it was a precious ally. With almost zero visibility, no enemy frigates could spot them, unless those cursed by the gods were so lucky to stumble upon one of the caravels... Livius praised Zeus to not let it happen.

The fog was slowly fading. In a few hours they would have been under the sun, in the proximity of the Miami Island. Strategist had bet on a lack of american warships around a city that, just a month before, was only a distant settlement overseas. Just a season before, the whole american fleet was around Chicago and Boston, trying to aid the land forces to repeal the unstoppable roman advance. Now that Boston has fallen, that distant settlement overseas had become the new american capital. But the war fleet around the main continent didn't have the time to retreat and redeploy for a defense of Miami. At least, that's what the Admirality was believing.

Livius and all the men under his command were hoping that those men in Athens were right.

Suddenly, the most forward ship made its way outside the bank fog, under a shiny morning sun. The sky was absolutely clear. The visibility was perfect. The sudden burst of light left the crew blind for a few instants...

"Land HO!"

Miami Island.

Barely visible, the city of Miami. Exactly where it was supposed to be.

And, most importantly, no enemy war ship was around.

Quickly, the captain yelled some orders. Horns sounded. Aboard all the ships, the cavalrymen checked their equipment, mounted on their horses and put themselves in formation, ready for a quick disembark.

The roman ships approached the coast at full haste, under the sight of the frightened inhabitants of Miami. In a matter of minutes, their deadly cargo was unloaded on the forest south-east of the american city. The caravels returned on open waters and disappeared back into the fog, as quickly as they came. The expedition has been a success.


1285AD - America's fall

The cavalry units unloaded into Miami Island moved north and garrisoned on a the hills north to the city. The added defense bonus will be of help. The caravels move back, load 5 cannons and 1 musket and sail again to the enemy territory. The best defender in Miami is a regular rifle, but the city is size 10 built on a hill.

Little else happens. American warships disappeared from sight. They're probably running back to Miami, but my artillery will arrive in time.

Some cavalries are moved north, to deal with potential flips. My military is being rebuilt, but now it's time to focus on banks. And in mastering Nationalism and Steam power. I'm confident to extort Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to the worthless americans, once i reduce them as a lousy city-state as Greece.

I end the turn. Bob of the Iroquois try to extort me gems. Are you nuts, Bob? Gems for free? I can sell them, but you're too broke. Here's 50 gold, you lousy dog. A little gift from Rome. Now go to hell.

America draw Monty into signing an insignificant trade embargo against Rome. Monty, i'll come to you very soon, embargo or not.

In 1290, cannons are finally disembarked on Miami. The caravel are still in hostile waters. American war ships could arrive in time... The rest is business as usual.

In 1295, finally, the attack on Miami can begin. Cannons fire. 2 regulars are weakened, at 2/3 and 1/3 respectively. A third is visible. Cavalrymen charge. The first kills a regular, and the damaged rifle is visible! Only 2 of those pukes left!

The 2nd charge retreats redlined. The 3rd and the 4th are both successful. Miami falls easily, as its defenders were already discouraged. The gold stolen is awesome...

tR1ckyBS026.jpg


With the capture of Miami, the american campaign is over. The last city left to Abe is a worthless town in the southern part of the New World, Houston. Now let's offer peace to poor Abe, and extort him as much as we can.

Hello, you pitiful excuse of a president... wait? Where's Abe? Has this stinking town some form of government? Ah, wait. America is in anarchy. Ok, let's find Abe somewhere. Hi, private citizen Abe. Soon you'll become president or whatever you will, i couldn't care less. We came, we saw, we kicked countless number of american arses and we finally grabbed all the land that was rightfully ours. Now, since we would have no use of that insignificant colony, we offer you peace. You give us... let's see... Magnetism and Theory of gravity... WHAT! Money?

Gosh!

Those AS are broken. I completely crushed him and he don't want to hand over what i want. As usual, sending some troops to have him change idea wouldn't be pratical at the moment... Gravity and 150 gold, ok? Now, stay in that stinking town and never, ever, cause trouble to Rome, or i'll come to finish the work. Idiot.

With the money extorted from Abe, i safely spy on him. Magnetism and Nationalism. Well done. Amazingly, no civ knows other industrial tech other than Nationalism. I switch to Steam power and try to move the slider... abysmal. Without going broke, it can be researched in 29 turns. Nope. Alas, this situation should not surpise anyone. Some productive cities don't even have a library. Only 3 of them have an university. The northern part of the Kingdom is totally unproductive. And i lack some banks too.

Military upkeep is small, 10 gold per turn. I need more money. For the moment, we'll stay at minimum research. I wanted to build a rail, but if they don't come soon, nothing forbid me to attack the Iroquois without a rail system in the mainlands.

A good idea would be to feed Mario of the Persians with all the medieval techs. Since Persia is scientific, he could pick it as a free tech. Let's try. With 4 cities in total, and a war in progress with the Iroquois, those vermins will never become a troublesome opponent... no way. They acquired nationalism. Who said that it was a good idea? :blush:

Nothing else to report. Slaves continue to clean up some jungle and work some tiles. Some temples have been rushed around. A minimal culture must be grown, and those extra tiles available thanks to the increased city radius can be useful.

Finally, it's time to renew peace with Alex. Hello, you smelly rotten bag of puke... bah, you're not worth insulting. Peace renewed, ok? I give you saltpeter, horses and iron for other 20 turns and you give me Economics, right? Uff, money. You're not even worth menacing. 15 gold per turns, ok? Good. Stick them where the sun doesn't shine. Goodbye. And good luck with the Iroquois. You idiot.

Nothing else is left to do. I end the turn. As expected, lots of resistors are quelled. Some american towns went into WLTKD. And my income has grown to 291 gold per turn. Steam power in 21 turns. Still too much.

In the pix: my score progression since now.
tR1ckyBS027.gif
 
Shadow Phoenix said:
nice...now the question is The Communism or the Fascism?
None of the above :) I'll stick with monarchy. Unless something totally unexpected happens.
 
He playing vanilla civ, so Communism would be a bad idea, and there is no Fascism.

BTW, tR1cKy I gotta say this is a great thread, very informational, but I do have a question for you. How many artillery do you have, and how many do you normally use in any given game.
 
Lol, just seen the military advisor you've got. I'm surprised you haven't declared war on everyone seeing that :lol:
 
Arachnaphobia said:
Lol, just seen the military advisor you've got. I'm surprised you haven't declared war on everyone seeing that :lol:
I did :crazyeye:
Why no Communism?
YOu do have a lot of Cityes...
 
Hi U all!

@DS_Legionary: first, thank you! About your question, it depends. On ancient age i use no artillery at first (no mathematics), then a few, but more in defense than in attack. It's a period when offense often prevails. Later i try to use them a lot, and build them as many as i can, with respect to other priorities. Currently i have about 20 cannons. I used them extensively against America. Knights vs. riflemen is suicide, without artillery support.

@Shadow: at the moment i don't own the necessary technology yet. Then, the 6-7 turns of anarchy are a nasty thing. I prefer to use them in building my military for the upcoming invasion if Iroquois land. If it was a game due to last long, till the modern era, it would be convenient to switch ASAP, but i don't think this game will go on for so many turns.

@Arachnaphobia: George is good. Look at him and you'll forget every pacifist thought... :D

pssstt... 10k mark passed... :wow:

next update tonight - seeya guyz!
 
Greece's, America's, Persia's, and the Aztecs' capitals would be nothing more than another town for the Iriquois to have at this point. He needs them alive for their ability to research quickly.
 
Wow this is a great story keep it up!!! So now the old world is completely under Roman control. The iroquois are gonna be a tough nut to crack id say.

If i were you id take a minute to gather and build more troops, and of course take pride in the empire youve created!!
 
A few precisations on the other political entities still in the game: America and Greece are nothing but a lousy city-state. Persia has only 3 cities left, and the last Aztec city is about to be assimilated in the Roman Kingdom. About possible alliances, Persia and Greece are already at war with the Iroquois! Amazingly, both of them have declared against Bob. Apparently, they are begging to be drawn out of the game... and probably, when war with Bob will begin, they'll be no more.

@Coolio: yes, the Iroquois will be the hardest opponent ever faced by Rome. And time is against me...

---------------------------------------------------

1300AD - In the name of Rome

It's time to dispose of the last Aztec settlement. This way no careful plans are necessary. All i need is to bring those 2 galleons in Miami to Xochicalco, unload some troops and grab the city. Just in case, an investigation on Xochicalco is made. Two muskets, 1 spear and 1 archer. It won't be a problem to dispose of them... but where do those 2 gold per turn come from? Monty is spending 100% in science...

Anyway, the garrisoned force isn't a problem. I can even send those 2 elite legions in place of 2 veteran cavalries. Two elite cavalries are available as well. Will i manage to obtain a leader at last? There are some small wonders that can be rushed, such as the Military Academy. Or i can simply build an army and have it ready for the battle.

Troops are loaded into the galleons, who set the sail toward the northern coast. A cannons and a musket are left in the city of Miami, just in case. Two damaged cavalries are parked there as well. There will be enough time to get them back on the mainland.

Now it's time to redeploy some troops. All the veteran legionaries still present will be sent to some newly-acquired cities. They'll provide some shields to complete temples and courthouses. Some defensive units are left in the northern cities. 2 muskets each, just in case. 4 cannons and 4 cavalries will be stationed in the zone. All the remaining units are headed south. I have yet to decide a gathering point... it could be Sparta, or Athens. We'll see.

A temple and a harbor are rushed in Atlanta and New York. Memphis and Roma are put to produce naval units. Forte Cucco and Forte Indietro are set to build workers. A communication line to the north is no more needed, so these forts will be emptied and abandoned. The extra workers produced will be useful somewhere.

I end the turn. The Iroquois have reconquered Niniveh. Nothing else happens.

In 1305, the two galleons reach Boston. Veteran cavalries are disembarked. Elite units are loaded in their place. Nothing else happens. In the interturn, Bob has conquered another Persian city, Antioch.

In 1310, it's time to pay the final visit to Monty of the Aztecs.

Hello. It's hard to be a worthless good-for-nothing as you are, Monty. And it's hard for that thrash under your command as well. I see your pitiful city-state is badly broken. You don't even have an harbor anymore. Don't worry, Rome has decided to come in your aid. We are bringing money, powerforce, and some of our finest soldiers to keep your lousy populace happy. Now step aside and leave your city open to Rome. What? You disagree? Ok, we're at war then.

The audience is called off. The roman vessel approach the Xochicalco island and drop their troops on a hill nearby. For the rest, it's business as usual. I enter the trade screen, trade a world map with Bob of the Iroquois... and notice something strange. I'm at war with Greece! What the hell is going on? I have not declared to Alex. I haven't broke any treaty. And i didn't see any popup in which i was alerted of the state of war.

By the way, why that moron should declare on me? I was supplying him iron, horses, saltpeter, some fine luxuries and 90 or so gold per turn... did he forget to take his medication?

In the map, i see that Knossos has no more a harbor. Alex should have sold it, thus breaking the trade route and consequently the 2 separate trade deals between us. Since in one of them was included the renewed peace treaty, breaking it has caused an automatic declaration of war. And since we're at war, the second treaty is broken as well. I was giving him some luxuries and 77 gold per turn, as a payment for Military Tradition... Poor Alex! :lol:

Anyway, better check the reputation... it's intact. Good for me. I'm saving some good gpt. With the extra income, i could research Steam Power in 16 turns. Still too much. All that money is better spent into military. It's about 5000 gold, that would be translated into 1250 shields... 25 cannons or 14 cavalry units. Yes, they are better spent into military, and not only for the gold. Going into research would mean delaying the invasion of Iroquois. They would have enough time to master Communism... the implications are obvious.

The Alex problem has caused me some unhappiness. It would be annoying to lose the WLTKD in some cities, better raise the happiness a little. Luxury slider? It will cost 48 gpt. Clowns, 11 gpt. Probably, the loss of WLTKD would cost me a more than 11 gpt for the clowns. Who said that entertainers are useless?

But this nuisance must be removed. After going for Monty, we'll go for Alex.

The turn ends, and nothing worthwhile happens.

In 1315, the last Aztec city is conquered, and Monty is sent into history. A cavalry is lost, and some units are weakly damaged. Defenders: 2 regular muskets, 1 spear, 1 longbow. The 4 cavalries left are loaded into a galleon which moves toward Miami. Once again, no leader has been created. :(

In the core cities, military production is active at full-speed. New cannons are build. New cavalry units are trained. Athens is building the Wall Street (4 turns for now) and a Heroic Epic is been near completion in Thebes. Roma is about to crank up the first warship of the roman fleet, and Memphis is 3 turn short from completing the second.

After 5315 years of history, the totality of the Old World is under the Roman Crown. Less than 5% of the landmass has been colonized by roman people. All the remaining land is conquered territory.

In the figure: a map of the old world, with the original distribution of populations.

OldWorld.gif
 
@mrtn: thanks! With PSP, it took less than 1 hour to make it, although cutting and pasting all there romboid tiles was a bit boring...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1320AD - A manifest destiny

Nothing happens in the interturn.

The trade embargo against me signed between America and Aztecs is no more. Abe was fairly rich, so it would be good to establish some trade. Horses, iron and saltpeter for 15gpt. Luxuries... apparently they are worthless for him. Whatever. Those few gold per turn are better than nothing. My actual income per turn is 372 gold. Quite respectable.

Now it's time to lay at least some preliminary plans for the future. Rome has a manifest destiny, which is World domination. As a ruler of this mighty empire, it is my precise duty to fulfill this task as soon as possible :D

For the first time in the game, i'm using a spoiler. An old version of MapStat to show me the domination count. I'm currently owning 522 tiles, and i'm 337 tiles short to the limit. The obvious way to reach the limit is the invasion of the Republic of the Iroquois, but i can take some advantage from cultural expansion. Some of my cities, expecially in the north, are still rank 1 or 2 in culture. By reaching rank 3 (100 culture point of above) i can claim a fair amount of land. Rushing temples now and in the following turns will grant me rank 3 everywhere 50-55 turns from now.

It took 30 game turns to annex America. 60 turns for preparing the invasion and claiming the necessary Iroquois land are probably an optimistic evaluation. So the cultural expansion will surely help. With an eye-look at the map, i can assume that reaching rank 3 everywhere would grant me at least 150 tiles. Yes, it's important to build those temples ASAP.

Temples are rushed in Boston, Washington and Seattle. Chicago, Philadelphia, New York and Xochicalco will follow soon. All the other cities have already a temple.

About the invasion, i'm thinking about disembarking my troops in the former Persian peninsula. By landing there, i can strike quickly and with much efficience, without disperding my troops on a wide front. Moreover, all the cities that i'm going to reach from there are built on open plains, except for Persepolis. No big terrain bonus, then. Fortified riflemen will defend at 8.6 in cities below size 7 and at 11.1 in cities size 7+. And once conquered Pasagardae i'll secure to my empire a stable source of dyes, thus overcoming the negative effect of the broken trade with Bob.

The drawback of such an invasion is the reinforcement line with the mainland. The shortest path for a ship-chain structure is 18 tiles, from Persepolis to Texoco. Lots of ships, although the extra movement awarded by the Magellan's Voyage allow me to reduce the number of intermediate nodes from 4 to 3. Building this structure will require 8 galleons. At least 6 frigates will be needed to give a basic defense ability to the transport vessels. A few more frigates will be needed to deal with harassers, but judging from the extension of my land, probably the best way to act will be leaving the seas open for pester ships and deal with the troops they will disembark. And of course, 2 or 3 more galleons will be needed for the initial attack.

I won't proceed to an estimate of the necessary units for now. It's sufficient to say that, at the moment, they are not enough. For a few turns i'll build units and ships, then i'll try some espionage on Persepolis and on another city in the zone, just to have an impression of the defenses. My current trade treaty with Bob expires 11 turns from now. I'll wait for the renewal negotiations to give an estimate deadline for the attack.

Reputation won't be an issue when war will be declared. My last enemy is Bob, and the other civs are reduced to worthless entities. I can also consider a ROP abuse... we'll see.

Good news from the homeland. The first roman frigate has just been christened in Rome. Other will follow soon in Memphis and Alexandria. My galleons are directed to the last Greek city-state. They will have all the necessary time to return in the ship-chain zone.

In the shot: the selected area from the planned invasion, with the probable ship movements (red), and successive troop movements (blue). I intend to use a few combat settler to ease the advancement (blue dots), but precise plans for the upcoming "Operation Sitting Bull" are yet to be drawn.
 

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Great post! I'm new to civ iii and found this a big help. Currently i am mastering playing on regent as the persians.
 
thanks jafink! many people who posted here told me that this game log has provided a lot of useful info on how to play, and this honours me. I'm trying to keep the updates as many informative as possible, with some occasional excursions into storytelling :D

From now, until the attack on the Iroquois, there won't be much action involved. The only significant campaign would be the assimilation of the last greek city, in order to quell those greek people who are still the majority in the former greek territory of my empire. However, i'll try to describe at my best the preparation of the attack (units built, ships, numbers...), the general situation of my empire in the meantime (culture, money, building orders...) and eventual agreements with other civs (trades, techs...).

I'd like to thank all the people who bothered to rate this thread. Six votes for an average of 4.5 on 5. Thank you very much! All this interest in what is going on is a further motivation on keeping the log up to date. Although time is not too much at the moment, i'll try to post at least an update per day.

That's all for the moment. Tonight next play session. Seeya!
 
So, can we see a culture histogram? The biggest problem will be culture, like it was with the Americans. The problem is that you don't have your support bases connected by a road. It's a long sail back to Rome.

Persepolis should be easy to keep once you kill the city to the north. No tiles under enemy control means no flip. Maybe taking that, and holding those two cities while annexing the rest of the colonies will get you your domination victory without attacking the tough nut to the north. If you can avoid killing all of the iroquoi it would be good, as you can get victory without having to invade all their cities and loose a lot of troops in the process. With colonies and some border towns, and some rushed culture improvements, you can hold the fringe cities and maybe get domination. Worst case, you get a foothold for a later war, and you can mass troops in the New World.
 
@dresdor: that's exactly what i'm trying to do: minimize the amount of iroquois land to conquer in order to reach the domination limit. :D However:
No tiles under enemy control means no flip.
Alas, it's not so easy. You have zero flip chance (not counting garrisoned units) when there are no foreigners (in this case no iroquois) and no tiles under enemy control. There are no less than 2 iroquois nationals in Persepolis.

------------------------------------------------

1330AD - Alex of Greece loses its job

The rush of temples is almost completed. Chicago and Philadelphia are OK. Only 2 cities left: Xochicalco and the new settlement of Santa Peppa. The galleons approach Knossos and will be in range for disembarking troops in the next turn. Cavalrymen, riflemen and cannons continue to be built.

In the meantime, the Wall Street has been built in Athens and the Heroic Epic in Memphis.

In 1335, roman troops are unloaded into the small Knossos island. Hi, you idiot. Frankly, i've never seen a declaration of war that was pure suicide as yours. Anyway, it seems that you're pretty broken. You have no money and not a single decent building in that crappy town. Don't worry, you worthless puke. We'll take care of your citizens far better than you did. Here are some of our cavalry divisions, and this is a cannon. I'm sure your lousy underlings have never seen such a military wonder. Ah, i forgot: you're fired. A new governor from Rome will take your place.

Next turn they attack. Two regular muskets is all is left defending the city. No improvements at all were present. Poor Alex, and poor greeks!

With Greece assimilated, unhappiness from greek cities is no more a problems. Clowns are sent back to their previous jobs. Temples are rushed in Santa Peppa and Xochicalco. The temporary settlement of Forte Indietro is disbanded.

In the New World, Iroquois forces have captured Tarsus. The small settlement of Gordium is all that remains of Persia. America has founded a city! There was a little chunk of empty territory where once lied a razed iroquois city. Buffalo has been founded on that spot.

In the Iroquois land, both Persepolis and Pasagardae have lost 1 pop unit. An investigation on Persepolis reveals 3 content citizens and 1 clown. This is quite in contrast with the 5 happy faces provided by available luxuries. I go to the top 5 cities (all Iroquois now). The result is amazing: all cities are short on food! It seems that war weariness is hitting Bob very hard. Good for me.

In my empire, the military buildup continue at full haste. New rifle and cavalry unit are being trained in all the core cities. Naval units are being built in Roma, Memphis and Alexandria.

I end the turn, and nothing relevant happens.

In the shot: by popular demand, the culture progression since now.

tR1ckyBS028.gif
 
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