OB02 - Giving is Better than Receiving

[GreyFox]

Better late than never ...

Santa is not very happy, because nobody has been asking Santa for gifts ... don't children believe in Sana anymore? What has the world become?



Anyway, inherit turns, some of our cities' management had left a lot to be desired ...

At the war front, Santa decides to cross the river, but ...

Hmm ... this is not right! Santa should have right of way to access the chimneys! Thus Santa got the tooth fairy to pay Mansa a visit ... he had been beaten off quite a few teeth by Mao

While the Tooth Fairy is at it, might as well arrange for more deals. Mansa had really lost quite a few teeth! To prevent him from begging for Steel, I arranged to have him exchange it for constitution.

And then, the city was razed.

Give him back the city? I don't think so. A tooth dropped is a tooth dropped. He has to live with it.

With Constitution, I revolted to Representation. We are running Mercantilism, and Rep goes hand in hand with it.

This does means that some of the more naughty elves have made use of this opportunity to go on strikes. So, I built quite a few temples to take care of them.

Poor Vicky, she lost London.

And our pair of cavs have been happily pillaging her towns ... until she decided to send in her own band of bandits ....

She did not do much damage, just pillaged a farm. Our pillaging cavs are back there to keep them at bay, plus 2 more cavs arrived elsewhere supported with a few pikes.

We got a prophet, no sense building the Muslim shrine and he is going to learn us philo ... so I suggest settling him in the capitol. We should revolt back to bureaucracy when the war is over.

We got replaceable parts

Speaking of which I have another gripe at the inherit turns. Instead of having workers standing there idle, I have them building roads in all our unchoppable Christmas Tree forests in anticipation of RP. This will speed up errecting of the elven lumbermils a bit.

Apparently, Mansa can't take it anymore ... he complains of having difficulty eating meat due to losing too much teeth, and decides to go for peace.

Nevertheless, the Tooth Fairy should be able to keep himself busy with Vicky losing quite a bit of teeth ....

I have been cautious with the advancement of our troops, delaying their advancement until I ma sure we have an overwhelming force. Thus, no more city taking by me, but the next player shouldn't have problem taking at least two. Shanghai is the more challenging one, with tons of collateral damage power.

A much smaller stack has just started the journey down south to liberate the southern city (no screenie for that one, sorry).

>>> The Save (1800AD) <<<

By the way, anyone has an idea how we are going to win this? Conquest?

Spoiler autolog :

Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0.1 (Vanilla v1.61) - New Log Entries

Turn 261/460 (1755 AD) [06-Feb-2007 10:15:43]

GreyFox: Some of the cities pop distribution has a lot to be desired!

Munich finishes: Buddhist Temple

Delhi finishes: Cannon

Madras finishes: Pikeman



IBT:

While defending in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Grenadier defeats (9.12/12): Chinese Cho-Ko-Nu (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

While defending in the wild at Guangzhou, Cannon loses to: Chinese Musketman (5.40/9) (Prob Victory: 28.2%)



Turn 262/460 (1760 AD) [06-Feb-2007 10:26:09]

Munich begins: Cavalry (2 turns)

Delhi begins: Bank (12 turns)

Knight promoted: Combat II

Tech learned: Constitution

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Xian, Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Chinese Pikeman (Prob Victory: 99.1%)

Knight promoted: Combat II

Hamburg finishes: Cavalry

Karachi finishes: Granary



IBT:

Attitude Change: Mao Zedong(China) towards Santa Claus(Santa Claus), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'



Turn 263/460 (1765 AD) [06-Feb-2007 10:38:55]

Hamburg begins: Cavalry (6 turns)

Karachi begins: Theatre (9 turns)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cannon defeats (8.04/12): Chinese Musketman (Prob Victory: 97.4%)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Grenadier defeats (10.56/12): Chinese Pikeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (15.00/15): Chinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Berlin finishes: Grenadier

Munich finishes: Cavalry

Jaipur grows: 7



IBT:

While defending in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Grenadier defeats (5.16/12): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 92.7%)

While defending in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (4.80/15): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 79.7%)



Turn 264/460 (1770 AD) [06-Feb-2007 10:44:16]

Berlin begins: Cavalry (7 turns)

Munich begins: Cavalry (2 turns)

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (10.20/15): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 90.1%)

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (6.60/15): Chinese Cho-Ko-Nu (Prob Victory: 98.9%)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (11.40/15): Chinese Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 99.9%)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cannon defeats (3.84/12): Chinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 93.8%)

While attacking in Malinese territory at Tadmekka, Cannon defeats (10.44/12): Chinese Longbowman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)

While attacking in Malinese territory at Tadmekka, Maceman defeats (6.72/8): Chinese Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

While attacking in Malinese territory at Tadmekka, Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Chinese Pikeman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)

While attacking in Malinese territory at Tadmekka, Cavalry defeats (8.55/15): Chinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Christianity has spread: Tadmekka (Chinese Empire)

Christianity has spread: Tadmekka

Buddhism has spread: Tadmekka

Captured Tadmekka (Mao Zedong)

Razed Tadmekka

Christianity has spread: Tadmekka

Buddhism has spread: Tadmekka

Tadmekka lost

Dortmund begins: Buddhist Temple (80 turns)



IBT:

While defending in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (5.40/15): Chinese Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.2%)

While defending in the wild at Guangzhou, Cavalry loses to: Chinese Grenadier (9.60/12) (Prob Victory: 29.4%)

Civics Change: Santa Claus(Santa Claus) from 'Hereditary Rule' to 'Representation'



Turn 265/460 (1775 AD) [06-Feb-2007 10:56:47]

Cavalry promoted: Pinch

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

While attacking in Santa Claus territory near Berlin, Cavalry defeats (0.60/15): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 90.1%)

Cannon promoted: City Raider II

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (11.40/15): Chinese Grenadier (Prob Victory: 96.4%)

Cavalry promoted: March

Cologne finishes: Cavalry

Jaipur finishes: Pikeman



IBT:



Turn 266/460 (1780 AD) [06-Feb-2007 11:03:53]

Cologne begins: Buddhist Temple (3 turns)

Jaipur begins: Forbidden Palace (40 turns)

Cavalry promoted: Formation

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

While attacking in Santa Claus territory near Berlin, Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

Essen begins: Buddhist Temple (6 turns)

Pikeman promoted: Combat I

Pikeman promoted: Combat II

While attacking in Santa Claus territory near Frankfurt, Pikeman defeats (3.96/6): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 76.7%)

Munich finishes: Cavalry

Dortmund grows: 11

Dortmund finishes: Buddhist Temple

Calcutta's borders expand



IBT:



Turn 267/460 (1785 AD) [06-Feb-2007 11:12:24]

Munich begins: Christian Temple (3 turns)

Guangzhou begins: Colosseum (20 turns)

Tech learned: Replaceable Parts

Cologne finishes: Buddhist Temple

Frankfurt finishes: Cavalry

St. Paul (Prophet) (Great Prophet) born in Delhi

Dortmund finishes: Library

Madras finishes: Longbowman

Calcutta grows: 9

Guangzhou finishes: Colosseum



IBT:

While defending in Chinese territory near Cologne, Pikeman loses to: Chinese Knight (3.70/10) (Prob Victory: 30.4%)

While defending in the wild near Guangzhou, Grenadier loses to: Chinese Grenadier (7.92/12) (Prob Victory: 20.5%)



Turn 268/460 (1790 AD) [06-Feb-2007 11:18:53]

Cologne begins: Cavalry (4 turns)

Frankfurt begins: Grenadier (5 turns)

Dortmund begins: Market (50 turns)

Madras begins: Library (12 turns)

Guangzhou begins: Market (30 turns)

Guangzhou begins: Hindu Temple (16 turns)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (12.45/15): Chinese Grenadier (Prob Victory: 96.7%)

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

While attacking in Chinese territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (8.70/15): Chinese Grenadier (Prob Victory: 98.8%)

While attacking in Santa Claus territory near Frankfurt, Cavalry defeats (12.90/15): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Hamburg finishes: Cavalry

Delhi grows: 14

Essen's borders expand

Madras grows: 8

Calcutta finishes: Cavalry

Guangzhou finishes: Hindu Temple



IBT:

While defending in Santa Claus territory near Cologne, Grenadier defeats (10.68/12): Chinese Cho-Ko-Nu (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Mao Zedong(China) and Mansa Musa(Mali) have signed a peace treaty

Attitude Change: Mao Zedong(China) towards Mansa Musa(Mali), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Attitude Change: Mao Zedong(China) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Attitude Change: Elizabeth(England) towards Mao Zedong(China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'



Turn 269/460 (1795 AD) [06-Feb-2007 11:30:05]

Hamburg begins: Cavalry (6 turns)

Calcutta begins: Cavalry (7 turns)

Guangzhou begins: Theatre (3 turns)

Xian begins: Colosseum (8 turns)

Xian begins: Market (19 turns)

Xian begins: Colosseum (8 turns)

Xian begins: Christian Temple (10 turns)

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

Cavalry promoted: Formation

While attacking in Santa Claus territory at Guangzhou, Cavalry defeats (8.25/15): Chinese Knight (Prob Victory: 97.3%)

Munich finishes: Christian Temple

Guangzhou finishes: Theatre

Xian finishes: Christian Temple



IBT:

Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Vassalage' to 'Bureaucracy'

Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Theocracy' to 'Organized Religion'



Turn 270/460 (1800 AD) [06-Feb-2007 11:37:11]

Munich begins: Cavalry (2 turns)

Guangzhou begins: Library (9 turns)

Xian begins: Lighthouse (6 turns)

Pikeman promoted: Combat I

Pikeman promoted: Combat II

Pikeman promoted: Combat I

Grenadier promoted: Formation

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

Cavalry promoted: Combat I

Cavalry promoted: Combat II

 

[Ozbenno]

Didn't think of roading all the forests in anticipation of RP

Anyway McArine is up, good luck with all those catapults!

And as for winning, didn't you mum ever tell you GreyFox "Its not the winning that's important, its the taking part." All rubbish of course, domination or conquest for us methinks.

 

[GreyFox]

And as for winning, didn't you mum ever tell you GreyFox "Its not the winning that's important, its the taking part."

Never ... cos I always win

Then how do you explain losing 1/3 of your SGs according to your Civ4 page?

Uh .. er ... Ah! For that, I blame my SG teammates! (which is why I only play SGs nowadays ).

--

 

[McArine]

Got it, and played, heres the summary.

Continued to increase our military, while I battled war weariness with temples and theatres. I also tried to increase the output of our commerce cities.

We got a GS, that were put to use in constructing an Academy in Delhi.

The English were thrown out of our contry with only one loss. And the war with England was ended.

I like this quote from our newest tech:

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun", Mao Zedong

And that was exactly what I was showing him
He lost two cities, and our forces are on the move for the next two cities.

And I chose Steam power as our next tech, so we could get to railroad. It is 9 turns away.

Spoiler :

Preturn: Nothing

Turn 1: Berlin Cavalry -> Cannon. Karachi Theatre -> Library. The English forces are destroyed with no loss.

IBT: Good battle in Chinaland, only lost one unit against 5 chinese.

Turn 2: Munich cavalry -> Ironworks. Cologne cavalry -> cannon. Shanghai is taken with the loss of one cannon.

IBT: Jingle jingle, Mansa wants Horses for Copper.

Turn 3: Frankfurt Grenadier -> Cavalry. Delhi Bank -> Aqueduct.

Turn 4: Hamburg Cavalry -> Cannon. Essen Cavalry -> Grocer. Xian Lighthouse -> Library. We capture Tianjian.

Turn 5: Cologne cannon -> theatre.

Turn 6: Cologne Theatre -> Cannon. Madras Library -> Market. Calcutta Cavalry -> Cannon.

Turn 7: As Mao says "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun", and we are showing him its true, we got Rifling. Next is Steam Power. Berlin Cannon -> Theatre. Delhi Aqueduct -> Temple.

IBT: Elizabeth wants peace, she gives us 70 gold for it.

Turn 8: Berlin Theatre -> Cavalry. Tianjin Theatre. Charles Darwin is born, moves to Delhi.

Turn 9: Cologne Cannon -> Cannon. Frankfurt Cavalry -> Stupa. Guangzhou Library -> Cavalry. Academy build in Delhi.

Turn 10: Hamburg Cannon -> Cavalry.

Postturn: Our forces are coming up on Beijing and Hangzhou. Steam Power is in 9. Elizabeth has been taking a serious beating from Montezuma.

 

[pigswill]

Got it. Not quite sure what to do with it though. Research is poor, WW is a problem, war with Mao seems to be going ok.

Maybe aim to wipe out Mao and then consolidate for a couple of sets.

Doesn't look likely that Liz will launch a spaceship early.

No chopping has certainly led to little commerce in our core cities. Goes with the variant I guess.

 

[Ozbenno]

Once Mao is gone, the WW will disappear, I think just roll onto the next target (Mansu or Monty?)

 

[pigswill]

Poor research, naff economy, our citizens are weary with war. Whip the protestors we say; let us build granaries and markets and grocers mortared by their blood .

1822. FP whipped in Jaipur (4 pop ).

1824. Capture Beijing, lose a cannon.

1830 Capture Hangzhou, lose 2 canon .
Sell spice to Mansa for 4 gpt.

1836.
Capture Djenne, lose cannon . Return to Mansa.

1838. Capture Chengdu, no losses .
Mansa asks a favour. "Of course" we say, "Merry Christmas ".

1840.
Monte starts a golden age.
Liz? Liz who? England disappears after a very short war.
Discover steam power, railroad 18 turns at 40&#37; (break even point).
Mao down to two cities:

Despite these recent conquests we're kind of lagging behind:

Might be an idea to raise culture slider until we finish off Mao.

A Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/Santa_Claus_AD-1840.Civ4SavedGame

 

[remconius]

GOT IT playing now!

 

[Ozbenno]

I think conquest is going to be the easiest way to win this. After Mao, we have the Mansu/Monty/Alex choice!

 

[remconius]

What started off as a turn for war turned into a quiet turnset.

I spent a turn or 2 moving the troops towards the two remaining chinese cities when Mao asks for a gift:



You know, I am a nice guy, being Santa and all.... so I let him have his treaty.... And get Philo....

I then wanted to switch to Bureaucracy, but Berlin doesnt have that many hammers or commerce. And we have several cities building units. I figured the xp is much better than 9 hammers and 19 commerce.

The rest of the turnset turned into a quite builder turnset. No gifts

We did get a scientist at the end and we now have a prophet and a scientist. What shall we use them for?

The save:
View attachment Santa Claus AD-1860.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Ozbenno]

Immaculate is UP

Sounds like a Golden Age sponsered war, maybe using the extra production to take on Alex or Monty.

What does everyone think?

 

[McArine]

Sounds like a Golden Age sponsered war, maybe using the extra production to take on Alex or Monty.

I think so too Ozbenno, and I agree that conquest is the way to go.

 

[Immaculate]

I got it.
Will play tomorrow.

 

[Immaculate]

1860AD-1880AD



Pre-Turn Analysis
I wanted to keep the two great people for after we have democracy. A golden age in universal suffrage will be worth much more because all towns will produce two hammers instead of the zero they would produce now if we trigger our golden age now. That means that after next turn when railroad completes, I will set research to democracy.

Techs
We complete railroads and start on democracy. Once this is complete, we start research on education. Other civs already have this tech so it will be cheap and we need it for assembly line.

War
We built troops but didn’t declare on anyone.

Civics
With the advent of democracy, we assume universal suffrage and emancipation.

Builds
We completed the Hermitage in our city on the border with Monty.

Trades
I rework some of our trades so we are providing less resources for equivalent incomes.

Great People
In 1872, a great prophet is born to us. I let him sit for now while we decide what we want to do with him. Once we come out of anarchy, we trigger our golden age.


So we just started a golden age and are also building the statue of liberty. Otherwise we built some infrastructure and soldiers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/26373/Santa_Claus_AD-1880.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Ozbenno]

I think we may have lost princecharles for good on this one!

I'll play tonight or tomorrow if he doesn't re-appear.

 

[Immaculate]

My DVD-player is down then (friday) i am going out of country for 2 weeks, so i will need to be skipped for awhile.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I'm absolutely swamped with work and RL at the moment, wouldn't be able to get to this until tomorrow (and probably not even then) GreyFox, how about a swap?

 

[GreyFox]

I'm swamped as well til today, and starting tomorrow I'll be swamped with SGs ....

But I can play this latest within 2.5 days.

 

[GreyFox]

Got it.

uselesschattertosatisfysomesillyforumrule

 

[GreyFox]

This game pretty much plays itself ... someone has set the research path on my behalf the entire turnset, and whenever a diplo screen pops up, just press OK. Even the workers never bother me ... someone set them to auto route.



But I corrected the worker, since they are not too intelligent when auto-routing. They don't target city where we need railroad for production first.

Research wise, I let it go. Since I'll probably choose the same techs anyway.

Here are the gifts:

I have been focusing on missionaries, we own two shrines might as well make good use of them. The Wall Street should be built at the shrine city with the most income.

War-wise, no declaration. Because Alex is far too powerful:

I am hoping for one of them (Alex or Monty to declare on Mao) and then we declare. But we should probably declare sooner rather than later, in case Mao came asking of something we can't (but would love to) reject -- such as cancel all trades with our friend Mansa. It is indeed amazing we can get a friend in this game. But that is probably because Mansa tends to initiate a lot of diplo dialog more than the other AIs.

>>> The Save (1900AD) <<<