OCC Tips Please

[metalhead]

Actually, I think it would be quite possible at Regent or even Monarch, but you would have to build a tech lead and then use a tank/arty stomp. Supporting a 200 or even 300 unit military in OCC is not that hard in the modern age - the problem is the time it takes to build them - so you'd want to continuously build defensive, horse, and bombard units as much as possible throughout the game to have a large force of cavs, infantry, and arty when you get replaceable parts. You could probably start the stomp then, and switch to all out tank production when you get motorized trans.

The key is to be able to produce 20 shields per turn at size 12, for 1 turn spearmen and catapults. You will likely be very resource-poor, which means you can still build spearmen well into the industrial age. The introduction of the trebuchet throws a huge monkey wrench, though, as you need 2 turns per bombard unit once you get Engineering, but still do well enough. I think I'm going to try to do this, and see what I can come up with. I currently have a OCC game where taking over my continent would be a cinch, so I'm pretty confident it can be done.

 

[Tone]

Supporting a 200 or even 300 unit military in OCC is not that hard in the modern age - the problem is the time it takes to build them

How do you cover the unit costs then?

 

[metalhead]

By trading techs properly, you should either make more than enough gpt to cover it, or have built up a big enough bankroll to cover it. And get out of Republic and into Democracy ASAP, so you're paying 1 gpt per unit instead of 2. You could even go with little or no research and make up some of the shortfall with a bank and a stock exchange. Build enough early tourist attraction wonders, and you'll really be in business.

The real problem, I think, would be a navy. You need to build sufficient escorts to go transcontinental (unless you play a pangaea), which could take more time that you can really afford. It'd be interesting, though. I may have a go at it tonight and see what I can come up with.

 

[Himalia]

Ok Monarch it will be. Better hope for a reasonable starting location and prehaps a sacrafice to the RNG may be a good idea. Just considering who to play as hmm gota me the boy Smoke Jaguar.

 

[DaveMcW]

Monarch is possible with Aztecs. Even easier if you play Vanilla Civ3.

 

[Ansar]

Mil and Religious could make a deadly trait. By the way, could Babylon make a good OCC Space Race civ?

 

[Tone]

@metalhead. I think we have differing ideas on how to go about the game and I'd be interested to see how yours works out. I might post a full report on the game I've tried at some point so that we can compare notes but the following gives you an idea of my approach.

My game is only on Warlord as I'd never tried OCC conquest before. I played with the Iroqious, researched up to HBR and then switched research off and just pumped out MW. As soon as I had a few troops, I went looking for trouble and my first victims bit the dust in 1200BC.

However the map has not been kind to me. I was prepared to fight my way across the whole map, even though a central start would have been more advantageous, and the jungle that separates me from my victims is something that I can live with. What has really has caused me problems is the fact that my pangea world has one civ on an island that can only be reached with sea travel and I didn't have a coastal site!

To get to the Sumerians, I have had to switch my single city to a captured coastal city in order to build galleys to locate and then attack the offshore civ. Having found them, I then needed to set up ship chains which require two stages of ship hopping in order to get to them. I did not build wonders, the AIs on my land rarely got a chance most of their cities didn't last long enough and so the Sumerians have plenty of wonders with a massive amount of culture and the Great Wall all of which makes defeating them quite difficult.

I had extorted techs up to Mono and Fued as I exterminated my rivals in stages but Sumeria had the GLHouse and so got up to tech parity before I could get to them and has subsequently researched well up the tech tree. It takes a while to build up enough suicide galleys to ship chain the military across when you can only build one galley every two turns and by the time I could get some mounted warriors over the sea, my troops were facing pikes behind walls on hills! I took out two of their seven towns, including their iron source, with my meagre forces whilst continuing to build nothing but galleys to get more troops across the massive sea gap and I researched Chivalry at minimum rate.

Just as I got my first pair of knights across to provide a bit more of a cutting edge to the attack, Sumeria got muskets! I took out one more town which might be its saltpeter town and then sued for peace. It won't last twenty turns though As soon as they build some new towns, I'll be on their case looking to take out their remaining key towns and leaving the new ones so that I'll be on my way to a histographic win.

I've enjoyed this game so far despite the low level. A conquest win would be easier in this game but I was playing it to squeeze out a histographic victory and that is what I shall do. This would have been too easy with a true Pangea map at this level so IMO Monarch will be quite possible as a OCC histographic victory.

No waiting for tanks in my game, metalhead! I look forward to seeing how your game progresses and whether waiting until the IA is the way to go.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Tone, are you leading in score at this point?

 

[Tone]

No, far from it. I'm not used to that on Warlord! Here's the current score graph:

So far I've learn a lot about what to do and what not to do in this type of game and I'm not worried about being so far behind in score. I have seven luxes with a market so all my 12 people are happy and there is 350 turns to go. The Sumerian population and territory is going to drop and they'll have no more than one lux. If needs be, I'll take them out in 2050

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, I very much doubt if I'll be able to overtake the Sumerians, even if I can get a hospital sooner than I'd first planned as well as getting culture expansions for more territory. I've not played a game for the full length for so long that I cannot remember what happens on the final turn. If I knock them out in 2050AD but my score is lower, do I get a win and would it count as a histographic one? It's a shame that I couldn't get to the Sumerians any earlier. Thanks for your question, MP!

 

[MeteorPunch]

This is why I was thinking it would be hard. Your only city has to outscore the last civ alive's final city and all the points they had prior to that.

I think the best bet is getting your "final civ opponent" down to one city, tundra, as early as possible, and keep them there. Then, go out and kill the other civs.

 

[Tone]

Agreed but I don't think that there is a requirement to get the final civ to a tundra town but they need to be knocked back quickly and kept down. It's just that a poor food location would be a bonus!

I still maintain that if all civs are within reach of land units, this is more than manageable. The city switch and rebuilding of city infrastructure plus the stacks of galleys that I've had to build have not helped my score or production capacity. Monarch may be tough but a central location should help in this case.

I think that I'll go straight Regent as a middle ground as I know I can defeat the Sumerians in my current game but I don't think that I can outscore them.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Would you like to play this variant as another "International Friendly" game? I would if we can get some others...warlord or regent maybe?

 

[Tone]

That sounds like a good idea! Your warmongering skills will come to the fore again. I'm sure that Tomoyo will be up for it.

 

[MeteorPunch]

That sounds like a good idea! Your warmongering skills will come to the fore again. I'm sure that Tomoyo will be up for it.

Unfortunately, Tomoyo is gone for a month.

 

[Twonky]

I really enjoyed the 5CC, so I might like to join you again for an "OCC International Friendly". Any ideas for the mapsize? IMO this might be more crucial than the difficulty.

 

[MeteorPunch]

I really enjoyed the 5CC, so I might like to join you again for an "OCC International Friendly". Any ideas for the mapsize? IMO this might be more crucial than the difficulty.

The smaller it is, the easier. Also Pangaea is a must. My vote would be currently for Regent, small map, pangaea, Iroquios or Celts, but I'd like to see what everybody thinks.

 

[Ansar]

I was thinking maybe a Celt OCC, not sure though with PTW or C3C.

 

[metalhead]

@metalhead. I think we have differing ideas on how to go about the game and I'd be interested to see how yours works out. I might post a full report on the game I've tried at some point so that we can compare notes but the following gives you an idea of my approach.

Well, I can already report that my first attempt at a small pangaea, Monarch level OCCC game did not go very well. I figured the ideal civ would be the Ottomans, for the offensive punch of the Sipahi. Unfortunately, one of my neighbors was the Persians, who got real big real fast and kept pace with me in tech. Money was a bit of a problem throughout the game, because I stockpiled units way more than usual, but it was doable.

I was just unable to build any kind of tech lead, which is unusual in a Monarch OCC. I'll have to try again, maybe a different land form and different civs will yield better results. I think with the land and opponents I was given, that game was an anomaly, so we'll see if I fare better tonight.

For your histograph win, Shakespeare's Theater will get you more points quicker, and if it is at all possible, perhaps you could get the Sumerians down to no cities, and just a settler - maybe even a settler on a galley that you can surround to ensure never lands to found another city. That may make it possible to catch up.

 

[Tone]

I tried a game at Regent and it's now in the bag!

With all 8 civs on one landmass, it was quite straightforward. The only issue left is to see out the remaining 263 turns as I'm top score with a whopping 182 points and the gap is getting wider by the century. (I would say 'by the turn' but my score does not increase that rapidly )

I'm sure that Monarch is possible. The main thing is to be able to get to the civs and not let them grow too large, thus keeping their scores down.

@MP et al: I could post the 4000BC save as another 'International Friendly' if you want to give the set up a try. The game settings were: Iroquois continents, pangea, 70% water, arid, cool (I think), 3byo, AI respawn off, SGLs on , AI aggressiveness normal and there is a river and cow in the starting position! Alternatively we could try a game at a different level and/or map size and Celts if they are more popular. I'm quite happy to set something up if the demand is there.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Good job Tone! I've had several thoughts about this since, but forgot to post them.

1. Celts are perfect. You could build a temple as your first build to get the culture/score lead from the beginning. Iroquois, Rome, and Persia would be good too.

2. How boring would it be to keep playing to 2050? There should be 3 checkponts.
a. when you have the last civ down to one city.
b. when you have the last civ down to one city, and your score eclipses theirs...if it hasn't already.
c. 2050.

If you have this info, that would make me lean more towards playing your game. I really wouldn't want you to have to play another unless you really want too. Was the map Standard, or Small with 8 civs?

I'm really kind of scared to play this on monarch. I say start a thread in Stories & Tales, hopefully some more will join in, and we can make a spoiler thread next week.