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October 2020 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Laurana Kanan, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Casworon

    Casworon Prince

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    I guess I've gotten the impression that civ vi is moving more and more towards treating history with protective mittens. For someone as cynical and grumpy as me it just gets irritating. The impression I get for the reason for this change is a large number of the player base thinking there's a problem because they find their allies spying on them and then think `oh this game is stupid, allies don't spy on each other`. And then the change is made because of that rather than people attempting to grapple with the extreme complexities and grey areas that make up reality.

    lol even writing this makes me realise how extremely pretentious I sound. But as I said I'm happy for the people who are happy with this change. But I would like my game world to be just that little bit darker and more interesting. I guess I`ve always had this underlying feeling that Civ Vi was moving in this direction. But for some reason this seems like the final straw that just pushes it over the edge to feeling like a toybox. Was fascinating is it seems like there are other people who independently all feel the same way.

    lol i`ll probably get over it. Now time for my nap,

    Dramatic ages was probably my favourite addition Civ Vi had ever gotten. And then this spy change is honestly probably my least favourite change. All within the space of two months.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  2. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    Tbh, I feel you but yet I agree with the people saying now you need to pay attention with whom you are proposing an alliance. As it stands, for a peaceful game any reachable civ was a good prospect for an alliance. If it turned out that your ally was going to runaway, a bit of spying could solve the issue. This is not the case anymore. And it is annoying in a good way. Just played a rather peaceful game and I felt the change. So this change to spying convinced me. The spying bug however where your missions get aborted with those that simply are 'green', now this one is the worst bug I had in a long while!

    A bit off topic , since when can you raze a CS ? I have seen the AI raze a couple of CS in said game I just finished.
     
  3. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    On that subject of spies , I think someone forgot to tell oda about the changes in the patch ;)


     
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  4. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    I didn't get this impression at all. I agree that reality and being human is very complex and often contradicting. In RPGs, I also want to be a part of a believable world and quickly get bored if characters and circumstances feel cliché, too simple and soulless.
    But I play CIV to relax and escape for a couple of hours and treat it more like a strategy game which cannot and doesn't want to depict every grey and/or depressing area of reality. I don't start a new round to become fully immersed. Even mystical elements like vampires are fine with me.
    I just like to solve problems creatively and the more strategic choices, the better. This spy change improved the game in that sense but I do understand where you are coming from. I shouldn't have said I'm "surprised". Obviously, everyone is looking for a different experience and likes different aspects about CIV 6.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  5. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    Like many above, I like this change. The spy missions are ones that simply aren't taken against nations that are allies. The spies used 'against' allies are significantly different from the missions that the spies carry out in civ. Some, such as blowing a dam, are more special forces type actions than spy actions - and definitely not against allied nations. What I do think is needed, again as others have said, is a diplomatic mission - perhaps with the intent of gathering additional information on the ally, influencing the ally in the world congress and/or in joining in denouncing of another nation; maybe even 'stealing' some tech, although probably a better option would be negotiating with them for acquiring the tech. this could even be handled by having the option to have the 'spy' conduct a diplomatic mission, to an ally, with specific diplomatic options, or to conduct a spy mission against a non-ally. If you want to backstab somebody, you can still pretend to be friends but then use spies.
     
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  6. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

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    I think Partisans could blow up things too; but yes, that's no action to use against an allied.
    That would be cool!
     
  7. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    So the AI just wastes its spies doing nothing now?
     
  8. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    Yes the spying game is dead currently. Between AI not understanding the rules and the bug making decisions unsafe.... Especially for peaceful games where it was your only proactive offensive action.
     
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  9. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Well, not entirely dead, it is more like as if some "timid spies" mode had been turned on - they abandon their mission and flee the job site at the drop of a hat :)
    I still manage to get pretty hefty loads of stolen cash and tech boosts from other AI, and get AI envoys killed in city states.

    But on the whole, yes, one of the buggier patches in a while and gameplay crippling.
     
  10. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    Has anyone seen a forest fire or meteor strike since the patch? It was supposed to have restored them, but I haven't seen any yet. I'm still in my first game though, could just be bad luck.
     
  11. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Forest fire – yes, I've seen a couple, one even in my tetrritory. No meteor strikes though, but they are easy to miss.
     
  12. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    I've witnessed one on the glacial fringe land of the map
     
  13. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    I've had both, and I play with low disasters. Unfortunately the meteor shower was on the other side of some civs I'm don't have open borders with!
     
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  14. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    I've gotten both forest fires and meteor showers at this point.
     
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  15. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Best was last night, I had a meteor hit and my borders immediately expanded to the tile, giving me a free chariot right as my city was being attacked. Was a literal gift from the heavens.
     
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  16. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    probably been said already, but they should just divide spy actions into two classes, one of which is milder and allowed on allies, and another set of more extreme actions that aren't. would be realistic and prevent the "everyone is friends so spies are useless" problem
     
  17. Dotsworthy

    Dotsworthy Chieftain

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    Played my first game post patch on Immortal.

    I quite like the idea of preventing spying on allies as a gameplay mechanic, but it's a double edged sword. Because 4 of the other 5 civs on the map were more than willing to be allies, I saw one spy notification the entire game from neighbouring Menelik, who spent the game being up to no good. I demoted England to a friend in order to spy on her but due to the bug they kept abandoning their post.

    I've said this several times before and I don't know if Firaxis agree or believe diplomacy is fine as it is, but a lot of the problems with diplomacy would be solved if the AI on the turn a friendship or alliance expired, took into account all their friendship modifiers as one calculation rather than basing it on their current friendship score. Because of this, no matter how many grievances or dislikes you inflict upon the AI, it takes a number of turns for the friendship score to decay and for them to decide that actually you're kind of a jerk, so as long as you renew on the turn (or even a turn or two after), you can keep them quiet the entire game.
     
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  18. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    As soon as I complained on the internet, I got a forest fire.

    It's only in a game like this where you really want your forests to get torched. Those yields...
     
  19. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    I haven't played a game or tested it yet, but could someone verify whether this has been fixed yet or not concerning fires: [1.0.4.8] Forest Fire Duration Bug
    Looking at the database it doesn't appear as though it has been corrected as the value in the Turn column is still 6 instead of 8.
     
  20. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Emperor

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    This...

    And/or this would be fine by me.
     
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