October 2020 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

RealHuhn said:
Yep, it's just an additional opportunity cost and whether you like it or not, it does make the choice of picking allies more interesting. I'm surprised how emotional some people get over this topic. I understand the reasons but I just don't care honestly. I'm all for more meaningful choices. Looking at the gossip tab, I get "top secret" information about my allies anyway, even without spies. That's good enough for me.
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I guess I've gotten the impression that civ vi is moving more and more towards treating history with protective mittens. For someone as cynical and grumpy as me it just gets irritating. The impression I get for the reason for this change is a large number of the player base thinking there's a problem because they find their allies spying on them and then think `oh this game is stupid, allies don't spy on each other`. And then the change is made because of that rather than people attempting to grapple with the extreme complexities and grey areas that make up reality.

lol even writing this makes me realise how extremely pretentious I sound. But as I said I'm happy for the people who are happy with this change. But I would like my game world to be just that little bit darker and more interesting. I guess I`ve always had this underlying feeling that Civ Vi was moving in this direction. But for some reason this seems like the final straw that just pushes it over the edge to feeling like a toybox. Was fascinating is it seems like there are other people who independently all feel the same way.

lol i`ll probably get over it. Now time for my nap,

Dramatic ages was probably my favourite addition Civ Vi had ever gotten. And then this spy change is honestly probably my least favourite change. All within the space of two months.
 
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Casworon said:
I guess I've gotten the impression that civ vi is moving more and more towards treating history with protective mittens. For someone as cynical and grumpy as me it just gets irritating. The impression I get for the reason for this change is a large number of the player base thinking there's a problem because they find their allies spying on them and then think `oh this game is stupid, allies don't spy on each other`. And then the change is made because of that rather than people attempting to grapple with the extreme complexities and grey areas that make up reality.

lol even writing this makes me realise how extremely pretentious I sound. But as I said I'm happy for the people who are happy with this change. But I would like my game world to be just that little bit darker and more interesting. I guess I`ve always had this underlying feeling that Civ Vi was moving in this direction. But for some reason this seems like the final straw that just pushes it over the edge to feeling like a toybox. Was fascinating is it seems like there are other people who independently all feel the same way.

lol i`ll probably get over it. Now time for my nap,

Dramatic ages was probably my favourite addition Civ Vi had ever gotten. And then this spy change is honestly probably my least favourite change. All within the space of two months.
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Tbh, I feel you but yet I agree with the people saying now you need to pay attention with whom you are proposing an alliance. As it stands, for a peaceful game any reachable civ was a good prospect for an alliance. If it turned out that your ally was going to runaway, a bit of spying could solve the issue. This is not the case anymore. And it is annoying in a good way. Just played a rather peaceful game and I felt the change. So this change to spying convinced me. The spying bug however where your missions get aborted with those that simply are 'green', now this one is the worst bug I had in a long while!

A bit off topic , since when can you raze a CS ? I have seen the AI raze a couple of CS in said game I just finished.
 
Casworon said:
lol even writing this makes me realise how extremely pretentious I sound.
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I didn't get this impression at all. I agree that reality and being human is very complex and often contradicting. In RPGs, I also want to be a part of a believable world and quickly get bored if characters and circumstances feel cliché, too simple and soulless.
But I play CIV to relax and escape for a couple of hours and treat it more like a strategy game which cannot and doesn't want to depict every grey and/or depressing area of reality. I don't start a new round to become fully immersed. Even mystical elements like vampires are fine with me.
I just like to solve problems creatively and the more strategic choices, the better. This spy change improved the game in that sense but I do understand where you are coming from. I shouldn't have said I'm "surprised". Obviously, everyone is looking for a different experience and likes different aspects about CIV 6.
 
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Like many above, I like this change. The spy missions are ones that simply aren't taken against nations that are allies. The spies used 'against' allies are significantly different from the missions that the spies carry out in civ. Some, such as blowing a dam, are more special forces type actions than spy actions - and definitely not against allied nations. What I do think is needed, again as others have said, is a diplomatic mission - perhaps with the intent of gathering additional information on the ally, influencing the ally in the world congress and/or in joining in denouncing of another nation; maybe even 'stealing' some tech, although probably a better option would be negotiating with them for acquiring the tech. this could even be handled by having the option to have the 'spy' conduct a diplomatic mission, to an ally, with specific diplomatic options, or to conduct a spy mission against a non-ally. If you want to backstab somebody, you can still pretend to be friends but then use spies.
 
King Rad said:
Like many above, I like this change. The spy missions are ones that simply aren't taken against nations that are allies. The spies used 'against' allies are significantly different from the missions that the spies carry out in civ. Some, such as blowing a dam, are more special forces type actions than spy actions - and definitely not against allied nations.
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I think Partisans could blow up things too; but yes, that's no action to use against an allied.
King Rad said:
What I do think is needed, again as others have said, is a diplomatic mission - perhaps with the intent of gathering additional information on the ally, influencing the ally in the world congress and/or in joining in denouncing of another nation; maybe even 'stealing' some tech, although probably a better option would be negotiating with them for acquiring the tech. this could even be handled by having the option to have the 'spy' conduct a diplomatic mission, to an ally, with specific diplomatic options, or to conduct a spy mission against a non-ally. If you want to backstab somebody, you can still pretend to be friends but then use spies.
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That would be cool!
 
Karmah said:
Yes the spying game is dead currently. Between AI not understanding the rules and the bug making decisions unsafe.... Especially for peaceful games where it was your only proactive offensive action.
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Well, not entirely dead, it is more like as if some "timid spies" mode had been turned on - they abandon their mission and flee the job site at the drop of a hat :)
I still manage to get pretty hefty loads of stolen cash and tech boosts from other AI, and get AI envoys killed in city states.

But on the whole, yes, one of the buggier patches in a while and gameplay crippling.
 
Has anyone seen a forest fire or meteor strike since the patch? It was supposed to have restored them, but I haven't seen any yet. I'm still in my first game though, could just be bad luck.
 
iammaxhailme said:
Has anyone seen a forest fire or meteor strike since the patch? It was supposed to have restored them, but I haven't seen any yet. I'm still in my first game though, could just be bad luck.
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Forest fire – yes, I've seen a couple, one even in my tetrritory. No meteor strikes though, but they are easy to miss.
 
MrRadar said:
Forest fire – yes, I've seen a couple, one even in my tetrritory. No meteor strikes though, but they are easy to miss.
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I've witnessed one on the glacial fringe land of the map
 
Played my first game post patch on Immortal.

I quite like the idea of preventing spying on allies as a gameplay mechanic, but it's a double edged sword. Because 4 of the other 5 civs on the map were more than willing to be allies, I saw one spy notification the entire game from neighbouring Menelik, who spent the game being up to no good. I demoted England to a friend in order to spy on her but due to the bug they kept abandoning their post.

I've said this several times before and I don't know if Firaxis agree or believe diplomacy is fine as it is, but a lot of the problems with diplomacy would be solved if the AI on the turn a friendship or alliance expired, took into account all their friendship modifiers as one calculation rather than basing it on their current friendship score. Because of this, no matter how many grievances or dislikes you inflict upon the AI, it takes a number of turns for the friendship score to decay and for them to decide that actually you're kind of a jerk, so as long as you renew on the turn (or even a turn or two after), you can keep them quiet the entire game.
 
I haven't played a game or tested it yet, but could someone verify whether this has been fixed yet or not concerning fires: [1.0.4.8] Forest Fire Duration Bug
Looking at the database it doesn't appear as though it has been corrected as the value in the Turn column is still 6 instead of 8.
 
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