[NFP] October Update Video Thread

[Disgustipated]

Anyone know the details of how the game speed balance changes will work? I couldn't understand the word they said in the video (not sure if closed captioning will help either), and I'm not exactly sure how they are balancing this. Is it only with regards to diplomatic favor?

 

[untitledjuan]

Not sure why GC is a blitzkrieg civ and not more of a defensive civ. If the speed bonus were limited to its home continent, that would add a reasonable restriction to Ejercito.

I guess it has something to do with the way in which Bolívar's army and the armies of other revolutionaries (such as the Comandante Generales) rapidly reconquered the vast territories that the Spanish had recaptured at the beginning of the wars of independence in New Granada (what would become Gran Colombia). But instead of stopping there, they kept on and continued fighting the Spanish all the way to the border between Bolivia (which they conquered and named after Bolívar) and Argentina and Paraguay. They even planned future invasions/liberations of Cuba, Puerto Rico and even Spanish Florida, but that never happened because Venezuela declared independence from Gran Colombia and then Ecuador. Spain had held all this territory for 300 years and the independentists conquered/liberated it in more or less 10 years. For the size and complex geography of South America in that time, that was really fast

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Anyone know the details of how the game speed balance changes will work? I couldn't understand the word they said in the video (not sure if closed captioning will help either), and I'm not exactly sure how they are balancing this. Is it only with regards to diplomatic favor?

It could be with anything that currently doesn't scale with game speed (so possibly things like Earning Culture per killed unit, Great People Points from Projects, etc.)

From what I gathered ,they are going to apply a scaling factor, so as of now, You get your first vote free, then subsequent votes cost 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. (or whatever it is), as of now, the frequency of Congress scales on game speed, so you have more turns to get through before your next vote, which also allows you to accumulate more Diplo Favor, they're going to fix it by scaling the cost to match the game speed, so on quick, it'll be 5, 10, 15, 20,

 

[8housesofelixir]

I guess it has something to do with the way in which Bolívar's army and the armies of other revolutionaries (such as the Comandante Generales) rapidly reconquered the vast territories that the Spanish had recaptured at the beginning of the wars of independence in New Granada (what would become Gran Colombia). But instead of stopping there, they kept on and continued fighting the Spanish all the way to the border between Bolivia (which they conquered and named after Bolívar) and Argentina and Paraguay. They even planned future invasions/liberations of Cuba, Puerto Rico and even Spanish Florida, but that never happened because Venezuela declared independence from Gran Colombia and then Ecuador. Spain had held all this territory for 300 years and the independentists conquered/liberated it in more or less 10 years. For the size and complex geography of South America in that time, that was really fast.

Bolivar was definitely famous for the rapid movement of his army, which heavily relied on his knowledge of the South American terrain and the mobility of Llanero cavalry (José Antonio Páez, one of the Comandante Generales, was from the Llanero ranks; he was technically a cowboy general). Bolivar himself was a skilled raider respected by many Llaneros.

However, it's not like Bolivar or Llaneros can keep with that speed outside South America, which is @PhoenicianGold's argument: "the +1 bonus should be limited to GC's home continent."

The revolutionaries certainly done well in terms of the speed, but having every unit get a plain, universal, unrestricted +1 movement is a bit too much.
Alexander also rapidly conquered the vast territories stretching from Egypt to India, should he receive a unrestricted +1 as well? And what about Genghis Khan in terms of speed?

 

[untitledjuan]

Bolivar was definitely famous for the rapid movement of his army, which heavily relied on his knowledge of the South American terrain and the mobility of Llanero cavalry (José Antonio Páez, one of the Comandante Generales, was from the Llanero ranks; he was technically a cowboy general). Bolivar himself was a skilled raider respected by many Llaneros.

However, it's not like Bolivar or Llaneros can keep with that speed outside South America, which is @PhoenicianGold's argument: "the +1 bonus should be limited to GC's home continent."

The revolutionaries certainly done well in terms of the speed, but having every unit get a plain, universal, unrestricted +1 movement is a bit too much.
Alexander also rapidly conquered the vast territories stretching from Egypt to India, should he receive a unrestricted +1 as well? And what about Genghis Khan in terms of speed?

Though I don't have any strong opinion about whether Gran Colombia should be nerfed or not, I do agree with what you're saying. The armies of Gran Colombia couldn't execute the plan for the conquest/liberation of Cuba and Spanish Florida exactly because of what you're saying. They had the advantage at land, specially in known territory were they also happened to have the support of a huge part of the local population, with some loyalist and native exceptions. Their navy, at least during Bolivar, wasn't very effective, let alone fast. I can imagine their armies not being as successful if they were invading a completely foreign country instead of fighting a similar and known enemy such as the Spanish in an independence war in their own land. Nevertheless, Bolívar's military accomplishments are outstanding, but Alexander and Genghis Khan fought in foreign lands with foreign cultures, which is way harder

 

[nmb93]

I feel compelled to confess that I honestly thought Gran Colombia's 'go-fast' UA was thinly veiled drug reference......

 

[The googles do nothing]

I'm hoping Pirates hits that sweet spot between simple (RD) and complex (Scenarios) for multiplayer. Scenarios are great if you can find people to who know the rules, RD is great except for most games ending by having one player cornered.

Hopefully the change to Gran Columbia gives the more of a role play feel. Maybe don't let them build ships or embark units? You can conquer you landmass but that doesn't win you the game.

I really wish they had made Neighborhoods worth building. It seems like it would have been easy to give them a standard adjacency and remove the one building limit (and give us more buildings).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The revolutionaries certainly done well in terms of the speed, but having every unit get a plain, universal, unrestricted +1 movement is a bit too much.
Alexander also rapidly conquered the vast territories stretching from Egypt to India, should he receive a unrestricted +1 as well? And what about Genghis Khan in terms of speed?

Honestly the first thing I did think of when I saw Gran Colombia's abilities were that the fast movement and unique Great Generals could have easily gone to Alexander if he was released later in the game's cycle as I think that would have been too out of the box a couple of months after release.

I feel compelled to confess that I honestly thought Gran Colombia's 'go-fast' UA was thinly veiled drug reference......

I mean caffeine is a drug right?

 

[nzcamel]

Tweaks are going to take time to see how the civ is playing. We wouldn't mess with something that just recently came out, at least not yet.

With respect Andrew, many of us feel that GC is so obviously OP that long term waiting is not needed. Then I guess I played GC once and didn't set the world on fire... so

Agree. <Gestures towards Nepal, northern Pakistan, Kachin State>

Mhm. And how many ski resorts are in Nepal and Pakistan? The problem with ski resorts is it must not be built too high.

Can't tell you about those places but there are plenty in Arizona. I am guessing it's not about the surrounding geography as much as about the surrounding $$$.

Yes I agree. Arizona was the first thing that popped into my head as well.
My problem is the current desert mountains do not originally show snow on them so whenever you do build a ski resort on them it is kind of strange how the snow automatically appears.

Part of my point -that I have made before- is less to do with the actual ski field improvement, and more regarding that desert mountains (and rainforest ones, were they added) being the only ones that are snow free doesn't make sense. I guess with the desert mountains they're shown as being shorter than the others -or at least the lone desert mountain is- which does give it some credibility that they are snow free. Ultimately though I think they made desert mountains snow free because more than a few people get confused about snow in a desert, even though that isn't contradictory at all.
In the big scheme of things though this inaccuracy is no big deal.

What I look forward to (hopefully in Civ VII ) is, along with the rotating time of day, rotating seasons. I'd love to see my world go from winter to spring, to summer to fall. At a slower pace than the day/night cycle of course! Then pretty much all mountains will have snow on them for part of the game and be completely snow free for part of it too.

I feel compelled to confess that I honestly thought Gran Colombia's 'go-fast' UA was thinly veiled drug reference......

 

[Arithmion]

For the 2 people that care, the background music in the latter part of the video, and presumably in the actual scenario, was music from the "Pirates!" game that they were referencing. I miss games that could just be played with 10-key.

And I agree with those above that say the anti-cavalry spawning is a sad indicator that there may not be a balancing run for them. Which is depressing.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

I feel compelled to confess that I honestly thought Gran Colombia's 'go-fast' UA was thinly veiled drug reference......

NARRATOR VOICE: It was not.

 

[untitledjuan]

Hopefully the change to Gran Columbia gives the more of a role play feel. Maybe don't let them build ships or embark units? You can conquer you landmass but that doesn't win you the game.

Or perhaps giving them some kind of penalty in the loyalty system of the game. Many generals in the army of Gran Colombia (like some of the Comandante Generales in the game) would then lead their own independence movements against the central government of Bolívar in Bogotá. José A. Páez, which is one of the Comandantes Generales in the game, was the first president of Venezuela and lead its independence from Gran Colombia, even after fighting alongside them against Spain. One of Bolívar's generals basically created Free Cities in game terminology after winning the war. Others decided to stay loyal to Gran Colombia and became leaders of it, such as Santander, which is also in the game and was vice-president of Bolívar.

I still don't know if they should be nerfed or not, but having an option where the Comandantes Generales, after retiring, could fire randomly a negative or a positive event. They could fire their regular bonus or they could immediately lower the loyalty of a city, even turning it instantly into a Free City. This would mimic the way in which some of the Comandantes Generales helped winning the war but later helped separating the nation in the various nations that exist today, represented by these Free Cities or loss of loyalty when they are retired.

Or, as many of you have said, limiting their +1 movement to the continent where their capital is located. Removing them the capacity to build ships would be weird, as they did have a navy, though very small.

(However I don't mind if they're nerfed or no)

 

[Deliverator]

Other than that, I'll add my voice to those pining for the lush, tropical mountains to be added to the base game.

From modding perspective I don't believe it's possible to add new categories of mountain sadly.

It looks like all they've done here is applied the Grassland material to ALL mountains for the Pirates scenario. You could do that for the base game but then you wouldn't have the brown/grey snow topped regular mountains - every mountain in the game would be green as in the scenario.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Can't tell you about those places but there are plenty in Arizona. I am guessing it's not about the surrounding geography as much as about the surrounding $$$.

Considering Arizona has an NHL team Coyotes this might me a thing But somehow it is Minnesota called a State of hockey. Not to mention hokey in Canada
What I mean here is this:
World Ski resorts map

Of course, you can build anything if you have enough money (and technology), but in general, you want to build a ski resort not too high (and not too expensive). It is most efficient in a certain climate zone with enough snow on lower atitudes . And skiing culture is also a big thing here (that is why I used this hokey reference. Arizona Coyotes audience is not too high)

EDIT: there are desert farms in Arizona too but we still cannot build farms on desert titles in Civ 6. Perhaps we should be able to unlock desert/tundra farming after unlocking a certain technology. Same with Ski Resorts in desert/tropical mountain titles? Perhaps it should cost you extra money too?

What I look forward to (hopefully in Civ VII ) is, along with the rotating time of day, rotating seasons. I'd love to see my world go from winter to spring, to summer to fall. At a slower pace than the day/night cycle of course! Then pretty much all mountains will have snow on them for part of the game and be completely snow free for part of it too.

We have different seasons in different climate zones (summer/winter, monsoon/dry season) As far I like the idea of seasons I think it would be hard to implement it into the game .
BTW snow in the desert and tropical mountains is not a result of seasons, but a glacier on higher attitudes

 

[Pistol90]

From modding perspective I don't believe it's possible to add new categories of mountain sadly.

It looks like all they've done here is applied the Grassland material to ALL mountains for the Pirates scenario. You could do that for the base game but then you wouldn't have the brown/grey snow topped regular mountains - every mountain in the game would be green as in the scenario.

Its depresing sometimes what FX is doing ... like purposely ruining our experience because they dont want enable modding.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Its depresing sometimes what FX is doing ... like purposely ruining our experience because they dont want enable modding.

I'm here to tell you the Mountains are recognised as individual mountains, they are not a single class, there's a Mountain_Grass, Mountain_Plains, Mountain_Desert, Mountain_Tundra, Mountain_Snow. All are required to be added in order to function. It's probably the reason why there is no "1 for every 2 mountains" because that doesn't function properly (I tried that on a hill/plains thing). They are a terrain, and not a feature either.

We already have two different mountain types, (if not three), for Snow/Tundra, Plain/Grass and Desert, with Desert being completely different mesh.

 

[orasis]

So zero reason to concentrate on spies now, I guess. Also, by nerfing partisan missions France also got hit.

 

[rockhpi]

I don't ever play scenarios but this is one I may try out of curiosity. I loved Pirates! (and I think I have it on Steam) but I'm not sure it's entirely necessary. I think I'm still in the "fix what's there rather than add new stuff" camp, particularly when the stuff being added doesn't have much to do with Civ (as I see it)... vampires, soothsayers, postapocalyptic mutants, 16-year-old video games... Civ is amazing on its own, why do we need to keep turning it into other things?

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm also not a big fan of scenarios in Civ, although I do like the Australia one in 6 and the Polynesia one in 5.

 

[Disgustipated]

BTW snow in the desert and tropical mountains is not a result of seasons, but a glacier on higher attitudes

We don't have any glaciers this far south. Generally you have to get up to Wyoming or high mountains in California for that. Our snow (at Mount Charleston) comes from elevation alone.

Though I'm worried we won't get much this year. We've had this weird weather pattern of high pressure for 6 months. We haven't had any rain in the valley in 6 months which is unheard of. Though Mt. Charleston has had rain. Who knows, that may actually mean a wet winter (and snowy for the mountain). We do have a snow maker at the ski resort of course. But I was under the impression they really do need or benefit from base natural snow. I know nothing about skiing, so I'm a little out of my element there. I'm big on mountains and hiking though.