Official announcement: Hot off the presses. Next Civ game in development!!!!!!!

[Noble Zarkon]

as long as we keep readability (CIV VI is actually quite good on that regard)

Interesting, not to this old man!! I have to keep tile yields on so I know what is what and as for two types of green for appeal well what can I say!!

 

[Weraptor]

I hope they take their time to polish the game and its AI. That’s one of the big goals imo

Unfortunately they probably won't, seeing what they've gotten away with civ 6. The resources will be shifted elsewhere.

Man I hope they release .dll files or what you call them after this pack is finished so the community can take over

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Domination or Spaceship victories only.

I want proper Civ IV Domination based on land and population; rename "Domination" back to Conquest and "Science" back to "Space Colony".

Yes I know I'm an old man yelling at the kids to keep off my grass .

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I'm not quite sure when Steam started to be honest and if that was the main way to play Civ 4 back when it was released, or not?

Steam was about then but not dominant - main media was CD-ROM which had to be kept in the drive while you played!

 

[AntSou]

what

My England example was confusing. I'll try again.


Your entire argument starts from:

No, it isn't. Kievan Rus' is the progenitor of both Russia and Ukraine, but Ukrainian nationalism only arose at a later time compared to Russia.

Which implies that the point at which a people start to develop national identities is relevant to you, giving the example of Russia. But why is national awareness relevant? Because the implication is that any culture which has never developed a national awareness is by your definition not relevant, or less relevant.

But historically this doesn't really start happening on a massive scale until maybe the 18th, 19th century? Sure it doesn't pop out of nowhere, there's a lot of build up to it, but there's a bunch of factors which must be in place for it to properly develop. Factors which were largely absent in most of Russia for most of modern history (and obviously before that).

So I would like to extend your argument for the exclusion of Ukraine to exclude Russia. That the retardation of "national awareness" in Russia when compared to several countries in the West means Russia should not be considered for inclusion in the game.

How is my line any less arbitrary than yours?

 

[Zaarin]

that's why you should also have the option to build a spaceship

As a culture/builder-focused player, I definitely would not buy any 4X game whose only victory conditions were Domination and Science. Nor could Civ7 reasonably expect to get away with being more feature-poor than the previous four iterations. The only way to cut the Culture Victory would be to pivot to something like HK's Fame Victory, which...is not entirely inconceivable but would be mildly surprising IMO.

 

[Mykytka]

I petitioned Ed Beach to include Ukraine in Civ 7 about 11 months ago and he responded with a Ukrainian flag

Wow, that's cool! Me and my friend already thought about possible leaders and abilities of Ukraine and i'm interested how it will be in reality.
And also, how did you make the petition? Thank you

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

it made the game easier to play for everyone. Might have made us all a little stupider in the process, but that's the price you pay for convenience

Now, I haven’t played any Civ games without this “dummy button,” but to me the best word to describe it would be “innovation.”

It seems like it just saves time more than anything. It doesn’t make players “dumber.” A streamlined Civ process means more Civ during a single play session, and you can still manually choose the order you want to do things if the automatic order isn’t to your preference.

As for the topic of the thread, it’s also funny to me how a simple “wooh! New Civ” thread quickly runs dry of speculation and just instantly devolves into a wishlist/ideas thread.

Is there really anything else to discuss about this announcement?

 

[canadamufc]

I also wouldn’t be a fan of just Conquest and Spaceship. That feels like it would dumb down all the game mechanics where if you’re not conquering, then everything you do is just to help launch a spaceship.

I actually like the victories we have now, it’s just they fall flat in execution (like a lot of things). I don’t think dumbing down the victories is the solution though.

 

[AntSou]

I'm still on the Fame Victory ship. I'm not convinced the botched approach of Humankind means there's anything inherently wrong with it. I think it's the means in which they tried to achieve it that turned out not to be that great.

I think integrating all victory types could make the game feel more consistent.

 

[Mykytka]

I can't see them adding modern Ukraine with all the pandering to dictatorships (see the line about rewriting history in Yongle's intro). They could and probably will add Kievan Rus tho.

I didn't say about modern Ukraine. Ukraine had such leaders as Bohdan Khmelnytsky (Cossack Hetmanate period), Yaroslav the Wise and Olga of Kyiv (both Kyivan Rus' period), so i think they could add them

 

[Mykytka]

There are plenty of European civs more deserving of a turn than a relatively modern Ukrainian state: Serbia, Bulgaria, Lithuania...

Ukraine is not a modern state... Its history starts from medieval times. I don't think France or for example Hungary are much older

 

[Zaarin]

I'm still on the Fame Victory ship. I'm not convinced the botched approach of Humankind means there's anything inherently wrong with it. I think it's the means in which they tried to achieve it that turned out not to be that great.

I think integrating all victory types could make the game feel more consistent.

I agree, but I'm not sure they'll go that direction.

Ukraine is not a modern state... Its history starts from medieval times. I don't think France or for example Hungary are much older

Ukraine as distinct from the broader East Slavs dates more or less to the 17th century, when the Cossacks were caught between the political machinations of the Poles and Russians and in particular the controversy of the Poles' creation of the Greek Catholic Church and suppression of Orthodoxy. Kievan Rus' is the origin of all the East Slavs, not just the Ukrainians.

 

[Mykytka]

It's just bad history to link Kievan Rus exclusively to Ukraine. Also, considering how the conflict seems to have broken some people's minds, I would prefer the series not touch Ukraine or Kiev for at least a decade.

So you say we must refuse everything Ukrainian just because of Russian invasion? But why then Cossacks are "unique units" of Russia in Civ 6? Isn't it also "very controversial stuff"? Maybe people just need to stop believing in Russian propaganda. I don't want to turn the forum into the political debate, but i'm really offended that we are forbidden to even be mentioned in the games because of the war

 

[Linklite]

I'm not that fussed about what civs are in, so much as what civs aren't in.

For example, I'm still a little sore that my country's contributions to the world has been folded into England (I'd have been happier if they'd called it British) plus a city-state, and then gave five blimming leaders to England. I don't mind not being a full civ, but at least recognise us by having a British civ, or even just giving us one of the five leaders. Blegh.

 

[Mykytka]

I agree, but I'm not sure they'll go that direction.


Ukraine as distinct from the broader East Slavs dates more or less to the 17th century, when the Cossacks were caught between the political machinations of the Poles and Russians and in particular the controversy of the Poles' creation of the Greek Catholic Church and suppression of Orthodoxy. Kievan Rus' is the origin of all the East Slavs, not just the Ukrainians.

Okay, then why Lavra is the unique building in Russia and Cossack is the unique unit? And if we are the same age with Russians and Belarusians, why then Russia is introduced, but not Ukraine and Belarus? Just because it's bigger?

 

[AntSou]

So you say we must refuse everything Ukrainian just because of Russian invasion? But why then Cossacks are "unique units" of Russia in Civ 6? Isn't it also "very controversial stuff"? Maybe people just need to stop believing in Russian propaganda. I don't want to turn the forum into the political debate, but i'm really offended that we are forbidden to even be mentioned in the games because of the war

You're not forbidden to be mentioned in the game. Ukraine isn't mentioned in Civ 6 like many other cultures aren't. Maybe they'll be in Civ 7. Request for an Ukranian civ is not a new thing.

Just because it's bigger?

Most likely because it sells better.

Ask it to yourself, who would you rather play as: Julius Caesar of Rome or a leader you never heard of from a culture you're not familiar with?

Civ games are a great way to learn about new cultures and world history, but you can't blame people when they prefer what's more familiar to them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd assume most people are asking for a Cossack Hetmanate, which is the genesis of modern Ukrainian identity. As much as I'd love to see a Rus' civ, it seems very unlikely when both Russia and Ukraine (legitimately) claim it. Personally, I can think of a dozen Central, Eastern, and Southeastern European civs I'd rather see in the game than the Cossack Hetmanate, which IMO would be pointless political pandering that doesn't actually help anyone or affect anything in the real world but... NB I'm not saying the Cossack Hetmanate doesn't deserve to be in the game; it would just be far less interesting to me than any of Bulgaria, Croatia, Serbia, Czechia, Romania/Transylvania/Wallachia, Lithuania, etc.

I'd like Kyiv to be a city-state, at the very least.

Steam was about then but not dominant - main media was CD-ROM which had to be kept in the drive while you played!

I'm a 90's kid so I know all about CD-Roms.

 

[legalizefreedom]

Now, I haven’t played any Civ games without this “dummy button,” but to me the best word to describe it would be “innovation.”

It seems like it just saves time more than anything. It doesn’t make players “dumber.” A streamlined Civ process means more Civ during a single play session, and you can still manually choose the order you want to do things if the automatic order isn’t to your preference.

As for the topic of the thread, it’s also funny to me how a simple “wooh! New Civ” thread quickly runs dry of speculation and just instantly devolves into a wishlist/ideas thread.

Is there really anything else to discuss about this announcement?

Stupider just in the same way as calculators and smart phones. Make using your faculties less of a requirement. So yes, innovation.

 

[AntSou]

@Mykytka for what it's worth, I think Ukraine has been on Firaxis map for a while, and recent events may have made it more likely, not less, that Ukraine will be in Civ 7.