Official announcement: Hot off the presses. Next Civ game in development!!!!!!!

Why do you assume this to be the case, and why do you think fantasy = more approachable? If that were true, wouldn’t fantasy-oriented 4X games like Age of Wonders be more successful than Civ?
I've seen a lot of people say that because of the fantasy game modes in the NFP. Of course, I'm under the impression that the devs might have used those ideas to test maybe a fantasy spin-off, or just go wild on their own creative desires. I don't believe that the official titles will have any fantasy elements, at least in the main game.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread, but what are everyone's thoughts on whether VII will be even more oriented towards casual gamers than previous versions in the series?

My first guess would be that it will become even more fantasy like and approachable to a mass audience, simply because Firaxis is a company whose primary interest is making money, and "serious" strategy games aiming to really "feel" like actual historical empire building only appeal to a marginal demographic. This is probably why games like Gary Grigsby's War in the East and Modern Command (or whatever it's called) are obscenely expensive in spite of being legitimate simulations, because making an entire game of that quality and scale simply costs too much for that demographic to make profitable.

Either way, I'll probably buy VII and give it an honest try even if that ends up being true. Maybe it would be fun for a few games even if I don't end up thinking it's as enjoyably replayable as earlier ones.
IMO if I had to predict, I think they *may* try to make it more "competitively-minded" as an attempt to get onto the streamer game more. I say this as someone who isn't into streamers but I think that MP Civ could make for great content for people to mindlessly put on. No shade-it's just wet I've been told from friends lol

VI was very SP focussed on empire building which lended itself to more "exploit" videos vs. optimal strategy against AI or human opponents. It was all about stacking endless bonuses (That being a major part of their design philosophy-everything is a bonus) to get big production...but wasn't about the moments or reactions. Part of that was due to the AI being...well the Civ VI AI. But part of that was that it was structured in that build-focused way. VI was all about the "exploitation" and "expansion" of 4x. I would hope/predict they'll take some of that for 7 but really refocus onto "exploration" and "exterminate" (i.e. win) in order to make a more reactive game that people can play with each other/on streams. Not exactly my preference 100% (Although we do need more focus on exploration lol) but just my two cents.
 
Minor thing I’m hoping for is the return of separate themes for the expansions. I was really disappointed that Civ 6 only had Sogno di Volare from release through now.
It's such a shame, too, since those themes exist and are used in the reveal trailers for each expansion, but they were never used as title screen music.
 
Couple of my personal wishes for Civ7 I didn't see anyone mention yet:
1. More terrain variation. In Civ5 different continents had a slightly different look to them which made the map more interesting to look at. I'm honestly surprised that Civ6 doesn't have more terrain variation considering that the continents affect gameplay (like Victoria's ability when settling on foreign continents). This small change would give some visual clarity if Civ7 has abilities like Victoria's. No need to constantly turn on lense to see where is what continent.

2. AI leader personalities closer to Civ5. After playing multiple games in Civ6, I'm not sure if the leaders have ANY personality. Harald should be building ships, pillaging tiles and building holysites. Why is he in love of encampments, anti-cavalry units and pacifism? By having more Civ5-esque personalities, not only is it more immersive, it also makes sure the AI follows the "intended" playstyle of the civ more closely.
TLDR I don't want to have Alexander and Genghis Khan being biggest pacifists while John Curtin is the most hated warmonger.
 
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Question for all you Humankind players:

What do you think of adding the neolithic age to Civ? It's my understanding (I've never played Humankind), that you start off as a little tribe of hunter gatherers? Cute!
I didn't enjoy it. If I wanted to play, say, the Celts, then I should be able to do that right from the game setup screen. I wasn't interested in some tacked-on meta game where you had to piss in two rivers or kill a sabre-toothed tiger using a stick of celery.
The neolithic stuff in Humankind really wasn't that good.
 
Lets see if Firaxis devs has learned how to program ai units to move and shoot in same turn. And whether if maps in civ7 is even more smaller than civ6. I wait in excitement to find out!
 
One thing is sure, I really hope they made a breaktrough with the IA... It is still severely lacking in VI. One can hope they put some machine learning, but that would be hell to get the legal right if they want to be able to receive random samples of games played to keep the model up to date. IF such machine learning is possible, the variable are rather numerous in this game!

One other thing that would be nice, is that vanilla VII is not too "basic". I know all civ game get a few addon to get really good, but that is only if vanilla is a hit (look at alpha century...). Well, I can always skip vanilla and get back to the vagon after the first addon, but it would be a shame. At the same time I hope the economic model won't be "bare standard game" plus "gazillon of small paid addons" either, but that seems to become the norm...
 
Oh... so there will be a new Civ. Will it have even less AI? Even less UI? Even more gameplay bugs that will persist even longer or forever? Civ 6 has shown everybody that those factors are really non-factors in terms of gaining a wider audience as long as the audience can be mesmerized by pics like this one, randomly and freshly found today on Reddit:

So I think we should expect more and thicc'er yields. Everything else is hardly guaranteed.
 
I didn't enjoy it. If I wanted to play, say, the Celts, then I should be able to do that right from the game setup screen.
Wouldn't you have to wait until the Classical Era for the Celts anyway, in Humankind, even if there was no Neolithic Era?

I mean my idea is that you still are able to choose your civ from the game setup screen, it's just your civilization starts out as nomadic whether you're American, Egyptian or Chinese etc.
 
I've never played Humankind, so no real clue what the gameplay there is like in general or in the Neolithic era. Thinking of what Civ having such an era would/could be, like, however, and thinking almost purely from a game design perspective (since I'm not an anthropologist)...

1.) It would need to be short. Like, probably 5-15 turns. Even knowing little to nothing about how other games may have handled this, I can agree with others here that any extended period where we're not playing "the real game" or "as your chosen civ" would get old fast.
2.) It would need to serve a legitimate purpose, and as far as I can tell, the best reason to have it would be so that you can get a better idea of what your surroundings are before choosing where to settle your capital. We can technically do this now, but the opportunity cost of doing so is massive, so I think this would have to look like a small amount of opening turns where you are "earning" your first settler, essentially. Maybe via finding//pillaging resources? That's the best way I can think of right now.
3.) It would be very tempting to give one or more civs some sort of bonus in this era, which I think would be a huge mistake. Early era bonuses can already snowball quite a bit and any bonus that translates to "found your capital several turns before anyone else can" could easily turn out to be broken. But on the other hand, you'd need a real goal in this era beyond just waiting things out before the turn when everyone can found their first city for the era not to just feel annoying and perfunctory. Which could get tricky in terms of start biases, some of which might naturally tend to start a civ nearer to immediately pillageable resources than others. But in any case, a bonus such as Portugal's or Gran Colombia's shouldn't kick in until their first city is founded, I think. (As in, nobody's should under this system.)
4.) As the game has become more tied to understanding the map and how it will affect your city-placement (which obviously jumped forward quite a bit in Civ6) the AI's ability to choose a good place to found their cities has not kept up. As much as I'd honestly really like a few "mandatory" turns of exploration before selecting a founding location, it could set the player that much further ahead of the AI at the start.
5.) Any mechanic by which I can imagine the first city being settled feels imperfect to me, at least so far in mulling this over. The two big options I can imagine are either earning a settler on a tile on the map where presumably one of your units already is (or next to it, or whatever), or else just choosing a tile you've explored (which is legal for city placement, obviously) once the time comes. The latter is off because it's immersion breaking - it works in CivBE because you're landing on the planet from above and so it makes a degree of sense, but what would it represent here and how would the game represent that in a satisfying manner? But the former is worse to me, because if you spend 5-10 turns exploring, get that settler on whatever tile you're on at that moment, you've just recreated the "problem" that having a Neolithic era is supposed to solve, since once again there's a massive opportunity cost for not just settling on that spot.
5a.) So maybe, to split the difference, you start with two scouts/warriors/whatever. Two identical units, in any case, with basically three abilities. They can attack/defend/fortify until healed, they can explore/exploit/pillage, and they can "settle in" on a tile. If one of them chooses to "settle in" on a tile, the other cannot while the first is doing so. The "settle in" option becomes like a sort of project (picture workers in earlier Civ entries taking a number of turns to improve a tile) but the project can be sped along by the actions of the other one, and starts off with a number of "points" already earned based on what you've done prior to starting the project. Basically, two units, both of which are exploring, one of which will become your first city, the other of which will upgrade to your first warrior once that city is founded. When you find a good location with one of them, it takes a few turns to settle in that location, with the exploring and pillaging or what have you that you've done prior to that point counting towards that project, and the exploring/pillaging/what have you that your other unit is still doing during that project also counting towards it. For opportunity cost balance, I think the exploring/pillaging/what have you would have to provide greater windfalls for the project than the PPT for running the project itself, but you'd still want to get it started quickly.
6. For all I know, this is basically what HK did, and it sounds like their version didn't work too well. But my main point is that if Civ were to do this, it would need to solve an issue (and I think there's at least one issue this could address, though not necessarily a major one) and the gameplay during that time would need to be exciting and engaging rather than kicking that issue down the road a few turns while you're waiting for "the real game" to start.
 
I, for one, can't wait to see this year's April Fools prank by Firaxis. They've certainly laid out a solid foundation for it with this announcement that a Civilization game (but not officially acknowledged to be Civ VII) is in development.
 
1.) It would need to be short. Like, probably 5-15 turns. Even knowing little to nothing about how other games may have handled this, I can agree with others here that any extended period where we're not playing "the real game" or "as your chosen civ" would get old fast.
5 turns sounds too short. I would put 15 turns at minimum.
2.) It would need to serve a legitimate purpose, and as far as I can tell, the best reason to have it would be so that you can get a better idea of what your surroundings are before choosing where to settle your capital. We can technically do this now, but the opportunity cost of doing so is massive, so I think this would have to look like a small amount of opening turns where you are "earning" your first settler, essentially. Maybe via finding//pillaging resources? That's the best way I can think of right now.
Essentially that's the gist of it. My idea is that you eventually acquire enough food at the start to learn the agriculture technology which would allow you to settle your first true city, and then start down the tech tree normally. Potentially finding other tribes can give you knowledge too. This also ties in to where I'd also want barbarians and tribal villages to be merged into tribes, and it might take them longer to become settled, and turned into city-states, or minor nations etc.
3.) It would be very tempting to give one or more civs some sort of bonus in this era, which I think would be a huge mistake. Early era bonuses can already snowball quite a bit and any bonus that translates to "found your capital several turns before anyone else can" could easily turn out to be broken. But on the other hand, you'd need a real goal in this era beyond just waiting things out before the turn when everyone can found their first city for the era not to just feel annoying and perfunctory. Which could get tricky in terms of start biases, some of which might naturally tend to start a civ nearer to immediately pillageable resources than others. But in any case, a bonus such as Portugal's or Gran Colombia's shouldn't kick in until their first city is founded, I think. (As in, nobody's should under this system.)
I think if anyone would get a bonus it would be more something like this particular civ is better off staying nomadic for a while, or still has nomadic traits after being able to found cities. This could work for Mongolia, the Huns/Scythia, or a Plains tribe like the Sioux/Comanche etc.
5.) Any mechanic by which I can imagine the first city being settled feels imperfect to me, at least so far in mulling this over. The two big options I can imagine are either earning a settler on a tile on the map where presumably one of your units already is (or next to it, or whatever), or else just choosing a tile you've explored (which is legal for city placement, obviously) once the time comes. The latter is off because it's immersion breaking - it works in CivBE because you're landing on the planet from above and so it makes a degree of sense, but what would it represent here and how would the game represent that in a satisfying manner? But the former is worse to me, because if you spend 5-10 turns exploring, get that settler on whatever tile you're on at that moment, you've just recreated the "problem" that having a Neolithic era is supposed to solve, since once again there's a massive opportunity cost for not just settling on that spot.
My idea is that you can still start the game with a settler unit and you can create a temporary "encampment" which could be used to produce your warriors, for acquiring food, and scouts for exploration. Since it's temporary you can still have a "city project" where you can move later. Even after acquiring the knowledge to found a city, and make your camp placement permanent, you can move right after for your perfect spot.
 
I would prefer that you just start in 4000 BC and have no neolithic stuff.

However if they do do it, maybe they can just have a few multiple choice questions before your first turn to help customize your civ a bit.
 
Essentially that's the gist of it. My idea is that you eventually acquire enough food at the start to learn the agriculture technology which would allow you to settle your first true city, and then start down the tech tree normally. Potentially finding other tribes can give you knowledge too. This also ties in to where I'd also want barbarians and tribal villages to be merged into tribes, and it might take them longer to become settled, and turned into city-states, or minor nations etc.
To what end though? What does this add to the game besides moving your units around the map for another 15 turns before you can settle? I don't get it.
My idea is that you can still start the game with a settler unit and you can create a temporary "encampment" which could be used to produce your warriors, for acquiring food, and scouts for exploration. Since it's temporary you can still have a "city project" where you can move later. Even after acquiring the knowledge to found a city, and make your camp placement permanent, you can move right after for your perfect spot.
How is this materially different from just founding your capital on turn 1, then founding a second city later?

I might be missing something but every idea of this "Neolithic era" I see leaves me wondering what it actually adds to the game.
 
If they followed their philosophy, there will be 1/3 change in game

I would love to see something like civilizations/nations separating from each other or just begging some point in time (lets say city-state or free-city becomes civilization)

But I doubt they will go with something big, probably some changes to religion, trade, economy ....

Maybe something with culture also
 
To what end though? What does this add to the game besides moving your units around the map for another 15 turns before you can settle? I don't get it.

How is this materially different from just founding your capital on turn 1, then founding a second city later?

I might be missing something but every idea of this "Neolithic era" I see leaves me wondering what it actually adds to the game.

Solid question. I haven’t played Humankind.

Regarding integration into CIV, perhaps successful hunting results in the Neolithic give you an extra warrior at the spawn of your settler.

Perhaps if you gather enough food, you spawn with a worker?

If this is how it works in Humankind, apologies for just repeating what already exists.
 
To what end though? What does this add to the game besides moving your units around the map for another 15 turns before you can settle? I don't get it.

I could see you having a setup where you don't pick your civ/leader at the start, but instead when you settle your first city. That would add an element of picking a leader whose bonuses fit the surrounding terrain, and a value in having some turns to explore what's nearby. Civ currently works in the reverse of this, with under the hood changes in map generation to fit your leader's traits (e.g. Mali getting a lot of desert). The downside I'd see is there would likely be some leaders that would end up being an objectively weak choice on any map, and so never get played.

I'm not sure it would be a good idea though. Humankind's nomadic phase really didn't add much to the game, and picking cultures meant you tended to end up always taking the same ones because they had objectively the best bonuses.
 
We can think of bonuses for wandering around as nomads all day. I'm not saying that you can't find stuff to give the player; I'm asking, what does this add to the game that isn't already there?

And whatever these additions are, are they enough to compensate for (1) making the game start off even more slowly and (2) eliminating the early game tension of balancing exploration vs development?

I could see you having a setup where you don't pick your civ/leader at the start, but instead when you settle your first city. That would add an element of picking a leader whose bonuses fit the surrounding terrain, and a value in having some turns to explore what's nearby. Civ currently works in the reverse of this, with under the hood changes in map generation to fit your leader's traits (e.g. Mali getting a lot of desert). The downside I'd see is there would likely be some leaders that would end up being an objectively weak choice on any map, and so never get played.

I'm not sure it would be a good idea though. Humankind's nomadic phase really didn't add much to the game, and picking cultures meant you tended to end up always taking the same ones because they had objectively the best bonuses.
Oh please no. This is one of those things that would completely upend the game for the worse.
 
To what end though? What does this add to the game besides moving your units around the map for another 15 turns before you can settle? I don't get it.
How is this materially different from just founding your capital on turn 1, then founding a second city later?

I might be missing something but every idea of this "Neolithic era" I see leaves me wondering what it actually adds to the game.
Coming from someone who has never played Humankind to know, to me it at least sounds interesting and was the most interesting thing about that game. I guess it would be at least cool to experience it in Civ. And as I've mentioned before I think the best solution would be to make it an optional game mode to where if people don't want to play with it, they don't have to.

Then again, I'd rather them focus on something like that, then adding a Future Era to the game, like they did because that just prolonged the end game.
 
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