On Work

[Voidwalkin]

What is your relationship to work? Actually enjoy it? Hate it? Have thoughts beyond that?

Dread going in, hate the bosses, hate the concept of extracting value in every nook and cranny, or are ya the type to dispute that characterization and think work is some pro-social force for good?

Here's a place to share it, forum denizens.

 

[Voidwalkin]

My own personal thoughts: I find you can usually detect all the themes of the human experience in working life, for better and for worse.

Today, in approximately twenty minutes, I'm preparing to work mandatory overtime and pretty perturbed regarding it. I believe they've rescheduled labor day on flimsy pretexts of meeting goals of productivity that we almost certainly will meet anyway. It's weak, it's stupid, and it's shady. The loss of moral authority will ripple, and in the long term, the passive effects of it will diminish productivity.

I'm pretty angry that they've gone ahead and decided to dishonor the core concept of labor day, which I understand to be ownership and management taking a hit to honor workers. I will go in, but only because of loyalty to other workers; work is an intensively competitive and simultaneously cooperative thing to me. Compete against the outside world, cooperate with those on the team, that's me personally; but it irritates me greatly that the larger team(workers) I belong to has been placed in a position of conflicting interests with the smaller team(personal coworkers) by a pretty cautious management group.

I've seen that happen before, management shadyness. Management teams that try to be ruthless, ask people to work long hours? It isn't possible today, with an HR department constantly intervening. They cannot compel productivity. They'll be stuck with clowns, half of whom are probably drunk, and would restrict the labor pool further by asking workers to endure frivolous sacrifices of precious time?

In today's working world, honor, morality driven management is both ethically and in the long term, superior to the bottom line.

Bleeping old timers. They dunno how the world works today. The days of long hours boosting productivity are over; you'll just get caught in a morale spiral if you do and before long the downsides outweigh the short term gains.

 

[Senethro]

All my best work was done on a voluntary or public duty basis. Everything else was make work or incomprehensible number torturing for someone elses distant and uncertain gain.

 

[dusters]

I have my own company where I offer various services - teaching math, languages, chess, translation. I have to find my clients, advertise, do my own taxes.
I love the idea that I work for myself and my family and since it's a company I can pay taxes quarterly unlike private citizens who have to pay monthly. This gives more freedom.

I have been doing this for over a decade now. My reputation as a teacher is well established and people are willing to recommend me to others. The state of public education in Latvia
is quite abysmal so I get more clients than I can accommodate, therefore I can choose with whom I work.

On the other hand, I don't do written contracts, parents pay me on oral agreement. If a child gets sick and misses lessons, I lose unearned money.

I have to be careful with money, because during summer breaks there are usually fewer students and I need some cash saved up.

I sometimes sign a contract and work for other companies (teaching chess online and in person), but these contracts are still between them and my company so I have different rights and legal status.

I love teaching, even if it's severely underpaid in Latvia. Average wage in Latvia in 2024 was approx. 1700 euros, average wage for teachers was approx. 1200 euros.

I currently study at University to become a headmaster so there are some career paths (headmaster, head of studies, methodologist of pedagogy), but approx. 95% of teachers in Latvia stay as teachers their whole life.


PS.

I love doing volunteer work. I helped organize Europe Youth championship in Darts in Riga, Latvia in 2024. It was a fun event, one week of darts action for youngsters and their coaches/parents. Everyone had fun, there were 30+ countries attending. It was a carefully planned and organized event.

 

[warpus]

What is your relationship to work? Actually enjoy it? Hate it? Have thoughts beyond that?

I am lucky enough to be doing the sort of work that I always thought I'd be doing, back in high school and university. I'm a software engineer, web developer, database design, UI design guy. Basically what you'd call a full stack developer. If I wasn't doing this for a living I'd probably desire some sort of job related to the travel or tourism industry, although I am not quite sure about that. It took one epic trip to get me hooked on world travel, and if I wasn't already a developer at the time, this trip might not have happened.

My relationship with work is complicated, I suppose, although that sounds a bit more dramatic than it really is. Essentially I view work as the mandatory thing I need to do in order to pay for the basic needs I require, such as shelter and nourishment, but also to pay for and spend time enjoying certain luxuries, and everything in between.

I see my job as a contract. I provide my expertise & labour for 7 hours every day, 5 days a week. In exchange I am provided a reasonable salary, 5 and a half weeks of paid time off a year plus holidays and a week off during Christmas time, and health drug dental and other benefits that stack on top of the generous universal healthcare we have in Canada. I view Canadian labour laws and to a lesser extent provincial laws, as well as the unions that rule our workplace, as the guardians of this contract.

My bosses are flexible in how they allow me to walk this contract, which is something I am grateful for. I will not get into any details, but I am treated like a professional who can manage his own hours. That sort of respect from my employer goes a long way in me wanting to respect the contract from my end, including being flexible from my end as well.

If my employer did not allow me to go on 3-5 week long backpacking trips to {whatever country}, I would probably be looking for a new job. What good is a job that does not allow you to embrace your hobbies and passions?

I am not really at work to make friends or to socialize, but we are sort of like a family here. I have made several meaningful personal connections through work, and I think that's an important part of all this to mention as well. I am a firm believer in a somewhat strict work/life balance, but that doesn't really contradict having friends at work.

When I leave work at 5pm I switch from work mode to non-work mode. If I am called about a problem during non-working hours, it better be a damn important emergency. There is some flexibility here, like I said, but I think it's important to be firm about this, but to help out during difficult moments as well. It's a fine line to walk, but we've struck a solid balance that works for me and I assume works for my employer.

Would I be working a 9-4/10-5 job if I didn't need to? Nope. Work is not my life, it's essentially a thing I need to do in order to pay for stuff. It takes up 35 hours of my waking week, plus the time it takes to get here and get back home, so I better enjoy it to some degree. Which I do, I'm somewhat passionate about software development and really enjoy programming. But let's say I created some personal initiative that made me the same amount of money every month and was stable income? I wouldn't be working for somebody else at all. I see work as a necessity that only exists as long as you don't have another income stream that will cover all the stuff I'm paying for every month. If I had that, working for somebody else would not cross my mind at all.

Work is simply a consequence of me living in this period in human history, in this Canadian society, in this socio-economic climate and reality. It's not something i get excited about beyond this project or that project being interesting to think about outside of work hours. I enjoy coming into the office, maybe not every day, but I have an office that's my own, a place where I can sit back and think about the problems I am asked to solve, I am given enough flexibility to not feel like this job is much of a nuisance, so in the end you have a happy enough employer and a happy enough warpus.

One thing I'll mention is that my personal philosophy is that it's dangerous to mix a hobby you are passionate about with work, although not always. It's something to be careful about. I always wanted to work on more freelance programming projects, but 35 hours a week is more than enough programming for me. So outside of work I mainly turn to other hobbies. Yes, I do some programming on the side, mainly for fun, but I would be doing a LOT more of this if I was working a completely different type of job. I am glad that I have other hobbies I am passionate about that can engage me after working hours, and that my life isn't purely centered around software development.

People say that you should find something you love doing and make a career out of it, but the danger there is that you could end up hating a hobby you are passionate about. Or burning out. Yeah, I bet you could find examples of people who do something at work (and love it) and then go home and do the exact same thing as one of their main hobbies that they are passionate about. I also bet you could find a lot more people who found a job doing something they love, and ended up not really enjoying it that much as a hobby outside of work.

This is why I'm not so sure a job related around world travel would be a good fit for me. A lot of people tell me this, they ask why I haven't started some blog or become a social media travel influencer, or something of the sort? Why don't I try to monetize my trips? Would I ever consider quitting software development to become a travel agent? I enjoy planning trips for myself (and other people), so surely that would be a perfect fit? The thing is that I really enjoy the flexibility I have when I travel. I can do what I want, eat what I want, relax when I want, go on a walk when I want, and hit up whatever sites I want, depending on how I feel that day. If I needed to monetize these experiences to pay for my basic needs + luxuries, then that would take a lot of joy out of travel for me. Having to plan trips for people day in and day out? Nah, that would burn me out. I enjoy occasionally planning trips and doing research. Having to do it for a living would probably push me away from world travel to some degree. I am really happy that I'm able to dabble in this hobby outside of any sort of work considerations. And I mean, yeah, it'd be amazing if I was making some extra money while I travelled, but my priorities lie elsewhere.

I have had the opportunity to move to the U.S. for work opportunities. High profile programming jobs that would see my salary double. Every single one of those opportunities contained a work-life balance that's just not for me. The expectation of working long hours to push products out. The LACK of work-life balance. I have met some expact Canadians who work in Silicion valley, and they make $$$ but their lives sound miserable to me. Living for work, instead of working to live. I would hate it. Yeah, the money would be nice, but there's so many other considerations here. The Canadian healthcare system for instance means that I don't have to ever worry about going bankrupt due to a medical emergency. How much would it suck to worry about that working a high profile job in silicon valley, when your healthcare benefits rely 100% on your employment? If I was fired from my current job the Canadian social safety net would prevent me from having to worry about bankruptcy due to a medical issue. We also have better employee protections up here. All these things are considerations for me.

I find work to be a complex subject. You can look at this thing from many different angles. I could never understand the people who live to work though. That's not the sort of person I am at all. I work to live and my employer knows it. The contract and mutual understanding between us is a compromise on both ends of the equation. We are both happy enough with the status quo, and in the end I deliver very good work for my employer. I am passionate about solving unique problems and that's what sort of helps drive me at work. So you need some passion there IMO. A job where I just don't care would make me miserable.

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

What is this 'work' you speak of?
(I'm retired now)

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Office job. I won't describe it much, just: good location and parking, medium staff (so you do feel like a person), very cozy and quiet, and fortunately no BS turn-on-a-dime work requirements because we've got contracts set in stone for sure. Been here since 2012.

Only thing is...There's certainly two tiers between the secretaries [I'll call them] like me and those doing the casework [I'll call it]. Not too much trouble except when they want a change and I have to tell them half a dozen different ways how that logistically/technically will not work with our systems, or that they're missing a bunch of steps, most of the time them responding "not only do I not understand (because I'm not one of you), I don't really care; just get it done; management is barking at me to get it done", and me blowing them off and jerry-rigging my own special way that they'd never notice 99.9 percent of the time away. But the work gets done ultimately...just not their "way". Not too big of a deal but it does happen every few months when some brand new task comes down the pike and we've no real plan to deal with it.
And I think they do understand this dynamic: one former worker of theirs said flat-out in a memo "I would be up S**** Creek if it wasn't for you [secretaries]". And yeah, they really really would. The phrase "walk a mile in my shoes" is a bit of an alien concept around here; they've really no idea what it takes to prep their cases for them.

A looming problem on the horizon is we are moving "some time next year" (we're told) and my guess is we won't get the details until like a week in advance. Parking fees if any will be a huge concern, on our salaries. All I know is it will be downtown in the city there, and I really don't feel like doing it. So I'll probably be looking for a new job well before then, probably just a transfer to another work site for the same enterprise.

 

[Senethro]

Office job. I won't describe it much, just: good location and parking, medium staff (so you do feel like a person), very cozy and quiet, and fortunately no BS turn-on-a-dime work requirements because we've got contracts set in stone for sure. Been here since 2012.

Only thing is...There's certainly two tiers between the secretaries [I'll call them] like me and those doing the casework [I'll call it]. Not too much trouble except when they want a change and I have to tell them half a dozen different ways how that logistically/technically will not work with our systems, or that they're missing a bunch of steps, most of the time them responding "not only do I not understand (because I'm not one of you), I don't really care; just get it done; management is barking at me to get it done", and me blowing them off and jerry-rigging my own special way that they'd never notice 99.9 percent of the time away. But the work gets done ultimately...just not their "way". Not too big of a deal but it does happen every few months when some brand new task comes down the pike and we've no real plan to deal with it.
And I think they do understand this dynamic: one former worker of theirs said flat-out in a memo "I would be up S**** Creek if it wasn't for you [secretaries]". And yeah, they really really would. The phrase "walk a mile in my shoes" is a bit of an alien concept around here; they've really no idea what it takes to prep their cases for them.

A looming problem on the horizon is we are moving "some time next year" (we're told) and my guess is we won't get the details until like a week in advance. Parking fees if any will be a huge concern, on our salaries. All I know is it will be downtown in the city there, and I really don't feel like doing it. So I'll probably be looking for a new job well before then, probably just a transfer to another work site for the same enterprise.

An imminent scenario I see in your future is that an idiot manager will ask an AI to do one of your tasks, the AI will be unable to accurately reply that it cannot, will generate something Plausible But Completely Wrong and you'll be given it to "just clean up a little".

Managers love the obsequious Never Say No attitude of AIs. Its their dream interaction.