One Last Roll of the Dice

[grandad1982]

I'm fine with you playing the next set but only if you take me to the Azores with you....

I got the wrong end of the stick so its all yours Meiz.

 

[Meiz]

No screenies this time as the set was all about boring builds to fix our economy

Preturn

Cancel some weird worker actions like mining a hill that no city can use, building some pointless road or windmilling desert hills. Sorry, but we have better things to do right now

Switch some builds:

Gao -> courthouse
Paris -> university
Orleans -> university
Rouen -> library
Djenne -> market (we have the shrine)

Re-arrange our deal with the Ottomans for copper -> clam + 5gpt. Also trade one of our multiple cows to Wang for gold. And beg 110 gold from Mehmed

Distribute our EP's evenly for all except Mansa.

Turn 1

Vandal -> HE
Chartres -> university
Marseilles -> university
Grenoble -> market
Kumbi Saleh (Mansa's cow/iron city) -> Moai Statues

GG settled in Vandal.

Trade Compass to Wang for 470 gold and increse science for 100%

Turn 2

Walata -> courthouse

Turn 3

We get a Great Scientist and I decide to bulb him for Printing Press. Changed our research to PP as well.

Marseilles -> university

Turn 5

PP is learned and we continue towards Liberalism.

Rheims -> Islam monastery (we don't need more troops so Rheims can concentrate to increase our shrine income).

Mansa learned Education so we can't sanbag Liberalism...

Turn 6

Chartres steals rice from the Ottomans

Turn 7

Avignon -> university
Vandal -> christian temple (AP hammers)

Turn 8

We make peace with Isabella and she even pays us 55 gold

Turn 9

Churchill asks us to convert to Taoism, which I decline.

Rheims -> islamic missionary

Turn 10

Timbuktu -> library

Whip market in Djenne

Whip universities in Tours, Marseilles, Chartres, Orleans and Lyons. Paris also finishes university next turn, so we can begin Oxford university right away. Forest chops for Paris are also under way.

Liberalism will be finished next turn. My vote goes for Nationalism as I cannot see a better candinate. We could use nationhood to draft rifles eventually. But convince me otherwise

 

[grandad1982]

I just lost my whole post!!!!

In short. Nice set will put a plan up tomorrow

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Regarding the weird worker moves - I'm an idiot I feel the need for roads on every improved tile. Helps to deal with invasions.

@Meiz - thanks for cleaning up after me and have fun on the trip. OT, I'll have been married 20 some years in about 2 weeks.

Nationalism is good.

Good choice on the PP.

 

[Cam_H]

Yep - things are starting to look up.

I agree that with Mansa and his two rubbish cities now almost inexplicably capable of researching Liberalism, that trying for tech's deeper in the tech' tree with the slingshot may be a bit too chancy. I was hoping for Replaceable Parts, but happy to take Nationalism (Taj!). Nationalism has a few handy flow-on tech's too.

I really would have loved to vassalise Suryavarman sooner rather than later, and I suggest that we're still quite capable of doing so, but I understand the appeal of 'playing it safe' a little by using Industrial Age units instead of our Medieval army.

I presume a revolt to Free Religion in preference to adopting Christianity and a religious civic is what's in mind? Do we build the Taj Mahal first and switch during a Golden Age? I'm inclined to stick with Bureaucracy over Free Speech, but if we are going to end up in Free Speech at the end of the day, then maybe the switch during the Golden Age might save us a turn of Anarchy later on.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I presume a revolt to Free Religion in preference to adopting Christianity and a religious civic is what's in mind? Do we build the Taj Mahal first and switch during a Golden Age? I'm inclined to stick with Bureaucracy over Free Speech, but if we are going to end up in Free Speech at the end of the day, then maybe the switch during the Golden Age might save us a turn of Anarchy later on.

I agree with most of this. however, how soon do we want to go after Suri? If sooner, then do we want to move from Bureaucracy to Nationalism as a speed bump on the road to FS at the time we go for Free Religion?

 

[Meiz]

Waiting for rifles will make this game a cakewalk, so based on that, I'm ok with declaring against Sury before that

I'd do the civic switch during Taj GA. Free religion at least, but I feel like we should stick with Bureaurcracy, especially as Paris gets Oxford.

 

[grandad1982]

Looks like a set of economy building to me.

Tech Lib > Natioanlism > Guilds. Guilds as its another gold multiplier and also a prereq for Rifles or MilSci. I get the impression that everyone wants to go for Rifling but could I suggest Steel and MilSci? Its mainly because I love cannons.


Won't list all cities as its is a boruing list but here some anyway.
Kumbri > LH > Christian builds
Paris > Oxford
Lyons > Islamic missionaries
Rheims to start a settler pod (settler, worker and garrison)
Vandal > Galleys. What do people think of getting some together and finishing off Mansa. Seems like a while till we get better ships for this. If not galleys then Maces to upgrade to Rifles later.

Won't trade techs but might sell off some Beaver Talking of beaver we should cottage some as we don't need them all.

Will proably play tomorrow or more likely monday.

 

[grandad1982]

Oh yer civics. FR and???

 

[Cam_H]

I'd encourage a bit of discussion about "Where to from here?", as while I think we've accomplished one of our objectives in driving Mansa off the mainland, we're still a bit undecided on when to attack Suryavarman, which technology pathway to take, whether to adopt Christianity or not, and personally I'd like to know if we're going for Domination / Diplomatic or Space.

To me, the most pressing issue is when to attack Suryavarman, and I'm increasingly inclined to just get on with it very soon. If so, we should go back into war mode, and forget Islamic Missionary builds and so on, and go back to replenishing our stocks of Trebuchets. Slingshot Nationalism, but then go for Gunpowder and with that spam Musketeers to accompany our Treb's. The Taj's Golden Age should help in that department. I think that we can leverage Musketeers' movement well here by taking Suryavarman's southern cities with the Medieval troops and progressively run the Musketeers up as we build them as the war heads north. Build the Forbidden Palace in central Khmer. I'd take capitulation after acquiring all of his mainland cities except maybe Pre Rup and Angkor Thom at worst, if not kicking him entirely off the continent which is what I think we should aim for.

Otherwise I think we'll just end up messing around with relatively unimportant building choices waiting for our military tech' of choice to come in. There is admittedly some room for expansion; the commerce filler near Grenoble, either side of Avignon, and numerous islands, while killing off Mansa would give us something to do.

I'm OK to stick with Bureaucracy, and don't feel particularly pressured by Spain to the point where adopting Christianity would be especially advantageous, so 'yep' Free Religion is fine by me.

grandad - I'm happy with your build suggestions if we were to continue to go developmental rather than into war mode. I'm pondering whether Gao and Walata might benefit from a Christian Temple with its 2 to help push along those very slow other builds. A good suggestion you make on the Fur resources.

 

[Meiz]

personally I'd like to know if we're going for Domination / Diplomatic or Space.

Domination / conquest would get my vote.

To me, the most pressing issue is when to attack Suryavarman, and I'm increasingly inclined to just get on with it very soon. If so, we should go back into war mode, and forget Islamic Missionary builds and so on, and go back to replenishing our stocks of Trebuchets. Slingshot Nationalism, but then go for Gunpowder and with that spam Musketeers to accompany our Treb's. The Taj's Golden Age should help in that department. I think that we can leverage Musketeers' movement well here by taking Suryavarman's southern cities with the Medieval troops and progressively run the Musketeers up as we build them as the war heads north. Build the Forbidden Palace in central Khmer. I'd take capitulation after acquiring all of his mainland cities except maybe Pre Rup and Angkor Thom at worst, if not kicking him entirely off the continent which is what I think we should aim for.

Sounds like a plan. I've used musketeers only once but I remember they worked very nicely against little outdated troops. Two movements give best benefit if we don't have to wait for siege, so Sury could be a good target to spend our EP's and use spy revolts for a change. That way we could still concentrate on economy builds while teching towards gunpowder and go less heavy with trebs and catapults (of course we still need them, but not as much).

 

[grandad1982]

Ok.

I'm looking at a Domination or Conquest victory as well. To this end lets look towards the earlier war with Sury rather than Rifles/Cannons.

So take Nationalism from Lib then work towards GP. Thats still Guilds next by my book.

Paris still for Oxford and Taj in Rheims? Forget the settlers for now as we'll be getting more cities from Sury soon.

Like the suggestion of the Christian builds in Gao and Walata Cam H.

I have to say I'm not that into capitulating Sury. I'd rather kick him off the continent and let them take his chances before we rock on.

I'll weight EP on Sury and build some Maces for upgrading to CR Musketeers. Maybe throw in a few Trebs as well. That still leaves quite a few cities that can do economic builds. I'll get the workers to start workshops around Vandal.

I think I'll put the Christian build in front of the LH in Kumbri.

As for our long term tech path going for GP means that we can easily go for Rifling or MilSci/Steel.

 

[Cam_H]

I agree that we'd be better off building the Taj Mahal somewhere other than Paris, just to keep the pool there relatively less 'Great Artist free', and Oxford's the priority there anyway I imagine.

Admiral and I both lost a few siege units against Mali, so I think/thought we can make up the lost numbers by building a few more in the short term, but maybe we can get away without and just go with Knights and/or Musketeers. I'm also OK with the City Raider Maceman suggestion. If you think that Spies can do the job on Khmer city defenses, then good-o.

I'd by-pass Guilds and go straight to Gunpowder if I was playing solo here, but that's not to say that I can't see the value in researching it sooner, and with all of those Universities coming on line, it will be pretty quick I expect, so 'your call' on that one.

Best of luck!

 

[grandad1982]

I was thinking the Guilds is a pre req for GP but actually its not as we have Edu. I think this is right anyway.

While Vandal is producing Maces then other cities can produce a few trebs. I'll also try to start a spy or two.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Don't see any need to finish off Mansu. I like the idea of gearing up for war with Suri. I'd rather have cannons first. Cannon and maces can be fun.

 

[Cam_H]

I wouldn't mind making Mali a vassal at some point - but that does mean boats need to be built. He'll probably try and settle those islands pretty quickly in an effort to re-establish himself. I don't see him as a threat, but as a vassal he could remain a worthwhile trading partner and be helpful in reaching our victory target. As I say, I expect that our popularity will dip a bit when we do vassalise him, but at the moment we're not trying to win a popularity contest.

Personally don't see any value in waiting for Steel to come in before taking on Suryavarman. We're already probably capable of taking him out as it is, but a handful of extra troops in the next turnset-and-a-half with the benefit of a Golden Age kick along would make victory even more likely.

 

[grandad1982]

PFT

Walata and Gao > Christ Mon
Start to send troops N

1

Lib is in! We take Nationalism and then switch to GP

Spoiler :

Paris, Uni > Oxford
Orleans, Uni > Treb
Mars (I really can't be bothered to spell it in full any more!), Uni > Christ Mon
Chartres, Uni > Treb
Rouen, Lib > Uni
Lyons, Uni > Treb
Djenne, Market > Lib
Grenoble, I whip the Market

2

IBT Churchill asks us to cancle our deals with Sury. I say no as I want the gold. I'm never that sure what to do in this situation.

Spoiler :

Rheims, Islamic Missionary > Taj. I spread the faith to Rouen.
Vandal, Christ Temp > Mace
Grenoble, Market > Uni

3

IBT Wang wants OB. I just say no as I know at some point we'll be asked to cancle deals with him.
Kumbri, Moai > Christ Mon

4

Lyons, Treb > Spy
Vandal, Mace > Mace

Make a trade with Izzy for 5 gold

Spoiler :

She looks like such an arse in that screen

5

Timbuktu, I whip the Lib

6

Vandal, Mace > Mace
Timbuktu, Lib > Christ Mon

7

Suprisingly quiet turn this.

8

IBT Izzy asks us to cancle our deals with Wang. I say no. Bum. I forgot about these deals so I should have just said yes to OB.

Spoiler :

Paris, Oxford > Christ Mon
Orleans, Treb > Treb
Mars, Christ Mon > Christ Missionary
Kumbri, Christ Mon > Christ Temp

9

GP is in. I switch to Guilds for several reasons. First I want the extra hammer for workshops, second I want another gold multiplier (health is a bonus as well) and thirdly I was thinking we may want to go to Merc in our GA.

Spoiler :

Lyons, Spy > Spy
Chartres, Treb > Treb
Timbuktu, Christ Mon > CH
Vandal, Mace > Mace

10

Paris, Christ Mon > Christ Temp
Djenne, Lib > Christ Mon


Info

Glance

Spoiler :

Tech

Spoiler :

Demo

Spoiler :

Our main stack

Spoiler :

There is also some units in Mars. I suggest we send a small SoD to Angkor Wat and then the incence city while the main SoD pushs N. Remember to upgrade Maces to CR promos before you turn them in to Musketeers. Also wait till spies have been stationary for several turns before DoW.

I forgot to switch EP until turn 10 (probabbly the biggest smoke of this set) so we might need to use the slider.

Kumbri needs a LH next.

The Roster
grandad1982
Cam H - up now
Admiral Kutzov - on deck
Meiz - on some kind of "romantic break"

The save

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset and the report.

Remember to upgrade Maces to CR promos before you turn them in to Musketeers.

Can't upgrade Maces to Musketeers, but we can upgrade our Axes to Maces, which I think we should do.

We can probably turn up the science slider ... Guilds > Banking > ?

I'd like to declare in the next few turns.

 

[grandad1982]

So is it Maces to rifles that is possible? I never play with Muskets as a rule so I wasn't aware that the upgrade wasn't possible. Guilds > Banking > then uptowards Steel??? Or rifiling.

 

[Cam_H]

... I'd even consider Economics as well ...

I lean marginally towards the Rifling line, especially as Churchill already has Chemistry, so we 'may' be able to get Chemistry through trade at some later point, but I'm not pushing for Rifling particularly. Military Tradition and Steel each unlock some handy units.

I'll wait to hear from the roster on this question, and whether I've got 'the green light' in terms of initiating the invasion of the Khemer. I agree that we may need to split the stack (again) and try to take both Rajavihara and Angkor Wat within a turn or two of each other if not simultaneously.