One Legged Hatty (Immortal)
- Thread starter OneLeggedRhino
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OneLeggedRhino
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Sealing Off Land (Turns 92-149, Years 2620-2010)
Wow, that's a ton of input! Thanks so much.
I went back and forth a few times with sealing off land vs an elephant beeline. I'd never thought about delaying bronze working like cseanny recommended. I really like the idea.
At this point, though, I just completed BW, and I'm all set for a settler pump. And I still have the option to peacefully grab a ton of land. Plus, there's plenty of gold to support the expansion.
We've already discussed how to seal the land to the East:
I think I will delay that gold city. It's easy enough to fog bust, and what with sealing off the land, I don't need to worry about the AI settling between my cities like that game with Saladin and Stalin.
But what really cinches the sealing-off plan for me is the West:
The sheep / corn city blocks Ragnar. The other one will be my commerce capital.
So, with three cities, I can seal off an absolutely ridiculous amount of land. And I kind of love creative now.
I'll trust you guys that I don't need archery just yet, and grab Pottery instead. Since I'm doing a settler pump, some granaries seem like a good idea. Then Writing after that.
2470: I whip my first settler, and double-chop a worker. Overflow into another worker, which I also chop (while growing on a warrior until the chop comes in).
The settler and two workers caravan over to the elephant city:
Founded in 2430.
2350: Pottery completes. Thebes grows while building a granary, though I wind up whipping settlers instead. Pottery probably wasn't required.
Writing is next.
A few turns later, Gilgamesh grabs another city, right by ivory:
I'm glad I didn't delay the settler.
2280: The gold is developed. My economy is quite good, and after a few turns of road-building, Thebes has the happiness to overcome whip anger.
2120: Whip the next settler. (He had a bit of chop overflow in him already.)
The whip overflow goes straight into the next settler. I already have two workers shopping forests, and he'll come out faster by just chopping and 1-pop whipping than regrowing to do a major whip.
2100: Writing completes. Next is hunting, for the ivory (happiness).
2080: Fish Block founded. Gilgamesh is sealed off.
I had a bit of a scare with an archer taking out two warriors. But one whip and two warriors out of ivory and he's taking care of. I think I just wasn't making enough warriors to take care of archers before, that's why I always teched up.
2010: The chops and whip come in, and I grab West Sheep. Ragnar is sealed off now, too.
And here's my 7-city backfill:
Yup. Definitely loving Creative.
My priorities at this point are claiming that gold and my commerce capital, more workers to improve all this land, and settling the copper. And, if possible, claiming the couple of cities near Thebes that are not sealed off.
Thebes will probably continue whipping settlers. My other cities will start working scientists. Bulbing math still seems like a good idea, along with elephant riders.
Edit: Attached the save file if anyone wants to play with that backfill.
Wow, that's a ton of input! Thanks so much.
I went back and forth a few times with sealing off land vs an elephant beeline. I'd never thought about delaying bronze working like cseanny recommended. I really like the idea.
At this point, though, I just completed BW, and I'm all set for a settler pump. And I still have the option to peacefully grab a ton of land. Plus, there's plenty of gold to support the expansion.
We've already discussed how to seal the land to the East:
Spoiler :
I think I will delay that gold city. It's easy enough to fog bust, and what with sealing off the land, I don't need to worry about the AI settling between my cities like that game with Saladin and Stalin.
But what really cinches the sealing-off plan for me is the West:
Spoiler :
The sheep / corn city blocks Ragnar. The other one will be my commerce capital.
So, with three cities, I can seal off an absolutely ridiculous amount of land. And I kind of love creative now.
I'll trust you guys that I don't need archery just yet, and grab Pottery instead. Since I'm doing a settler pump, some granaries seem like a good idea. Then Writing after that.
Spoiler :
2470: I whip my first settler, and double-chop a worker. Overflow into another worker, which I also chop (while growing on a warrior until the chop comes in).
Spoiler :
The settler and two workers caravan over to the elephant city:
Spoiler :
Founded in 2430.
Spoiler :
2350: Pottery completes. Thebes grows while building a granary, though I wind up whipping settlers instead. Pottery probably wasn't required.
Writing is next.
A few turns later, Gilgamesh grabs another city, right by ivory:
Spoiler :
I'm glad I didn't delay the settler.
2280: The gold is developed. My economy is quite good, and after a few turns of road-building, Thebes has the happiness to overcome whip anger.
2120: Whip the next settler. (He had a bit of chop overflow in him already.)
Spoiler :
The whip overflow goes straight into the next settler. I already have two workers shopping forests, and he'll come out faster by just chopping and 1-pop whipping than regrowing to do a major whip.
2100: Writing completes. Next is hunting, for the ivory (happiness).
2080: Fish Block founded. Gilgamesh is sealed off.
Spoiler :
I had a bit of a scare with an archer taking out two warriors. But one whip and two warriors out of ivory and he's taking care of. I think I just wasn't making enough warriors to take care of archers before, that's why I always teched up.
2010: The chops and whip come in, and I grab West Sheep. Ragnar is sealed off now, too.
Spoiler :
And here's my 7-city backfill:
Spoiler :
Yup. Definitely loving Creative.
My priorities at this point are claiming that gold and my commerce capital, more workers to improve all this land, and settling the copper. And, if possible, claiming the couple of cities near Thebes that are not sealed off.
Thebes will probably continue whipping settlers. My other cities will start working scientists. Bulbing math still seems like a good idea, along with elephant riders.
Edit: Attached the save file if anyone wants to play with that backfill.
yeah, W sheep needed to be 1n to truly seal that coastline, however ragnar won't cross all that desert just to claim the pigs until all the closer-to-him land is claimed. and the pig site isn't even terribly good. Another reason for 1n is that is delays 'close borders' tension.
note that, if you want to irrigate the northern wheat with civil service, you need to plant a city 1s of the northern gold, or 2n of the marble. 2n of marble is a terrible site, but 1s of the northern gold is a nice helper city for the new capitol.
beware, if gilgamesh continues his direction of expansion, he will try to claim your spices/corn in the southeast.
note that, if you want to irrigate the northern wheat with civil service, you need to plant a city 1s of the northern gold, or 2n of the marble. 2n of marble is a terrible site, but 1s of the northern gold is a nice helper city for the new capitol.
beware, if gilgamesh continues his direction of expansion, he will try to claim your spices/corn in the southeast.
OneLeggedRhino
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Yeah, it's not 100% sealed, but going 1N would leave an opening between W Sheep and Thebes, which is much worse than if Ragnar sneaks a city in along the coast. It should be enough deterrent to make them expand in the other direction, though. And I'm going to keep settling fairly quickly, since all the cities either have gold or cottages.
(By the way, I just played the next turnset, and it indeed is enough deterrent.)
@Silverbow I always name cities by their resource, and if there are several, the direction (N S E W). I never remember where Memphis is, but I easily remember where E Ivory or N Copper is.
(By the way, I just played the next turnset, and it indeed is enough deterrent.)
@Silverbow I always name cities by their resource, and if there are several, the direction (N S E W). I never remember where Memphis is, but I easily remember where E Ivory or N Copper is.
OneLeggedRhino
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The Settler Pump (Turns 149-283, Years 2010-670 BC)
Here's the sorry state of Thebes at the start of the turnset:
Now that the initial land grab is over, I'll let it regrow.
Also, it looks like I missed one section of road:
Seems I need to actually bring the road into the borders, rather than just connecting to a river at the border. Yet again, I feel dumb.
Edit: I think the road was pillaged by a barb archer. Because I had gold hooked up at one point.
Anyway, Thebes regrows for a while. But this is just a pause. We're nowhere near done whipping. This turnset, I basically grow Thebes to size 6, whip a settler, and repeat. Every city I settle comes out of Thebes, and I settle a lot of them.
(And yes, I whip a granary ASAP.)
A few turns in, hunting finishes. Next is fishing, for that northern blocking city.
1890: Judaism founded somewhere.
A few turns later, I find out it's Ragnar. I'm quite happy to have a religion helping relations on the island, especially since my blocking cities are like a "Beware of Dog" sign and a motion-activated audio player, but no actual dog.
1820: Fishing completes. Next is Archery, to make my defenses slightly less abysmal.
Also, Judaism spreads to me. I'm smart enough not to convert immediately this time. A few turns later, Ragnar asks me to switch, and I get the free diplo bonus.
1670: Archery completes.
Wonders have been going slowly. Do I have a shot at Oracle? No idea, but I start on mysticism, and set my research reaches 0%. If it still hasn't gone by the time I build up 400 G, I'll probably go for it.
A few turns later, Gilgamesh lands the Pyramids.
Well, this changes things. I'd much rather have a sure shot at the mids then a who-knows shot at Oracle. I switch tech to horseback riding, and start running two scientists in the sheep-corn city a little bit later. I think I will go for that elephants war after all.
1570: The 3-gold city founded:
I think about settling on the marble like Cseanny suggested, but really, I just want the city to work some gold. It gets a reasonable amount of farms here.
I'd planned to leave it at size 6, work 3 golds and 3 farms:
So I skip the granary and just work farms until it grows to size, like in that screenshot. That's why you don't see a giant jump in research right away: It's working farms first.
(Once it's at size, I realize that E Ivory has too much food, so 3-Gold gets another floodplains. Would have been better with a granary right away. I really didn't manage this city that effectively.)
1550: A tiny island! You know how I feel about those.
(If you don't know, I love them. They provide a 2C trade route to every one of your cities. If you plan to wipe out the folks on your island, having an offshore city is a big boost to your economy.)
It turns out there are two tiny islands. No resources or anything, but the trade routes pay off even if the city is just working a specialist at size 1 forever.
1490: Most advanced civs comes out. I'm not dead last, which means I can't be doing that bad.
1310: Ragnar settles a city right on the Thebes' borders.
It's a spot I'd planned to grab, so in the end, it's probably good. It means I can make another 3 catapults instead of a settler. And I'm not hurting for city spots by a long shot.
Also, just before that shot, I founded my commerce city. It's the one just east of the sheep-corn blocking city. Screenshot didn't come out, though.
1280: Thebes is bumping against the happiness cap, but that's no reason to stop. It'll clear up one anger by the time it's ready for the next settler.
Plus, this city grabs furs for another happiness.
That's 4 happiness total (ivory, gold, fur, religion). So no need for Monarchy yet. (Or ever, if I take the mids from Gilgamesh.)
1250: The NE fish blocking city is as good as it's gonna get. Which is actually pretty good.
1230: Oracle built in a distant land.
That's 40 turns after I thought about going for it. If I'd focused on gold instead of growth, I might've landed at, but probably not.
A bit later, someone gets a great general, and Gilgamesh gets a great spy. He uses him for a Golden age.
1070: Yet another Gold city founded. This one will work cottages for my commerce city.
This spot is needed to get water up to the wheat in the north. (Thanks Keilah for the recommendation.)
1060: Horseback riding completes. I'd actually dropped my research to 0%, thinking that construction was next, and wanting the Great Scientist for Math before that happened. But next is Masonry, (3 turns at 100% research), which makes everything line up perfectly.
1040: Great Scientist pops out of W Sheep, and bulbs math.
830: Ragnar builds the great lighthouse:
It won't be a huge deal on this map, but I'm always glad to have it. Sadly, those extra trade routes will only be worth 1C each.
700: I finally get copper:
Would have grabbed it much earlier, except everyone's been at pleased due to religion. At this point, I probably don't need it, but the wheat will help with all these floodplains, and copper might be useful. It works the gold for now, making it cost-neutral.
There are still two more cities to backfill. That will wait until after the war.
670: Construction completes. Here are my cities:
Ivory is my main production city, and has a barracks and the stables. Thebes is finishing up its stables, but with about 100 turns of whip anger, it won't rush them. West Sheep has a barracks, and will make catapults. And 3-Gold is finishing a barracks, and will also make catapults, as it works the three golds and a grass hill.
I'll probably slowbuild my stack, instead of whipping it. The AIs only recently swapped to monarchy, so I should have time before feudalism. I do have some chops coming in to speed things up, though. I'd like to chop more, actually, but I only have 11 workers, and a bunch are tied up with the copper and the commerce city.
For my next tech, I thought about aesthetics --> literature. I have marble, and there are some nice wonders to grab. But I just don't have the spare hammers. So next is currency, which will be pretty important for funding this elephant-driven expansion.
Next turnset, I'll build my stack and start the conquest.
Here's the sorry state of Thebes at the start of the turnset:
Spoiler :
Now that the initial land grab is over, I'll let it regrow.
Also, it looks like I missed one section of road:
Spoiler :
Seems I need to actually bring the road into the borders, rather than just connecting to a river at the border. Yet again, I feel dumb.
Edit: I think the road was pillaged by a barb archer. Because I had gold hooked up at one point.
Anyway, Thebes regrows for a while. But this is just a pause. We're nowhere near done whipping. This turnset, I basically grow Thebes to size 6, whip a settler, and repeat. Every city I settle comes out of Thebes, and I settle a lot of them.
(And yes, I whip a granary ASAP.)
A few turns in, hunting finishes. Next is fishing, for that northern blocking city.
Spoiler :
1890: Judaism founded somewhere.
Spoiler :
A few turns later, I find out it's Ragnar. I'm quite happy to have a religion helping relations on the island, especially since my blocking cities are like a "Beware of Dog" sign and a motion-activated audio player, but no actual dog.
1820: Fishing completes. Next is Archery, to make my defenses slightly less abysmal.
Also, Judaism spreads to me. I'm smart enough not to convert immediately this time. A few turns later, Ragnar asks me to switch, and I get the free diplo bonus.
1670: Archery completes.
Wonders have been going slowly. Do I have a shot at Oracle? No idea, but I start on mysticism, and set my research reaches 0%. If it still hasn't gone by the time I build up 400 G, I'll probably go for it.
A few turns later, Gilgamesh lands the Pyramids.
Spoiler :
Well, this changes things. I'd much rather have a sure shot at the mids then a who-knows shot at Oracle. I switch tech to horseback riding, and start running two scientists in the sheep-corn city a little bit later. I think I will go for that elephants war after all.
1570: The 3-gold city founded:
Spoiler :
I think about settling on the marble like Cseanny suggested, but really, I just want the city to work some gold. It gets a reasonable amount of farms here.
I'd planned to leave it at size 6, work 3 golds and 3 farms:
Spoiler :
So I skip the granary and just work farms until it grows to size, like in that screenshot. That's why you don't see a giant jump in research right away: It's working farms first.
(Once it's at size, I realize that E Ivory has too much food, so 3-Gold gets another floodplains. Would have been better with a granary right away. I really didn't manage this city that effectively.)
1550: A tiny island! You know how I feel about those.
Spoiler :
(If you don't know, I love them. They provide a 2C trade route to every one of your cities. If you plan to wipe out the folks on your island, having an offshore city is a big boost to your economy.)
It turns out there are two tiny islands. No resources or anything, but the trade routes pay off even if the city is just working a specialist at size 1 forever.
1490: Most advanced civs comes out. I'm not dead last, which means I can't be doing that bad.
Spoiler :
1310: Ragnar settles a city right on the Thebes' borders.
Spoiler :
It's a spot I'd planned to grab, so in the end, it's probably good. It means I can make another 3 catapults instead of a settler. And I'm not hurting for city spots by a long shot.
Also, just before that shot, I founded my commerce city. It's the one just east of the sheep-corn blocking city. Screenshot didn't come out, though.
1280: Thebes is bumping against the happiness cap, but that's no reason to stop. It'll clear up one anger by the time it's ready for the next settler.
Spoiler :
Plus, this city grabs furs for another happiness.
Spoiler :
That's 4 happiness total (ivory, gold, fur, religion). So no need for Monarchy yet. (Or ever, if I take the mids from Gilgamesh.)
1250: The NE fish blocking city is as good as it's gonna get. Which is actually pretty good.
Spoiler :
1230: Oracle built in a distant land.
Spoiler :
That's 40 turns after I thought about going for it. If I'd focused on gold instead of growth, I might've landed at, but probably not.
A bit later, someone gets a great general, and Gilgamesh gets a great spy. He uses him for a Golden age.
Spoiler :
1070: Yet another Gold city founded. This one will work cottages for my commerce city.
Spoiler :
This spot is needed to get water up to the wheat in the north. (Thanks Keilah for the recommendation.)
1060: Horseback riding completes. I'd actually dropped my research to 0%, thinking that construction was next, and wanting the Great Scientist for Math before that happened. But next is Masonry, (3 turns at 100% research), which makes everything line up perfectly.
1040: Great Scientist pops out of W Sheep, and bulbs math.
830: Ragnar builds the great lighthouse:
Spoiler :
It won't be a huge deal on this map, but I'm always glad to have it. Sadly, those extra trade routes will only be worth 1C each.
700: I finally get copper:
Spoiler :
Would have grabbed it much earlier, except everyone's been at pleased due to religion. At this point, I probably don't need it, but the wheat will help with all these floodplains, and copper might be useful. It works the gold for now, making it cost-neutral.
There are still two more cities to backfill. That will wait until after the war.
670: Construction completes. Here are my cities:
Spoiler :
Ivory is my main production city, and has a barracks and the stables. Thebes is finishing up its stables, but with about 100 turns of whip anger, it won't rush them. West Sheep has a barracks, and will make catapults. And 3-Gold is finishing a barracks, and will also make catapults, as it works the three golds and a grass hill.
I'll probably slowbuild my stack, instead of whipping it. The AIs only recently swapped to monarchy, so I should have time before feudalism. I do have some chops coming in to speed things up, though. I'd like to chop more, actually, but I only have 11 workers, and a bunch are tied up with the copper and the commerce city.
For my next tech, I thought about aesthetics --> literature. I have marble, and there are some nice wonders to grab. But I just don't have the spare hammers. So next is currency, which will be pretty important for funding this elephant-driven expansion.
Spoiler :
Next turnset, I'll build my stack and start the conquest.
Well this is shaping up to be an absolute stomping. I honestly can't see you losing at this point. Looks like you were right about how fast you could expand, and I was overly pessimistic... I'd say you made the right call to just go ahead and REX.
As a thought for moving forward - I know you're usually partial to specialists, but I would consider transitioning to a cottage-heavy economy here for two reasons. One: you don't really need more research for a while. With Construction, and eventually Currency off war gold if nothing else, you have everything you need to develop your island. Sure, Calendar and Civil Service would be nice, but they're just nice, not game-changing, here. Just getting all the cities you're about to have grown up to size and with basic infrastructure is what will really impact your economy, not getting any one tech you lack (besides Currency, which you will get regardless of whether you start cottage-spamming or not). So the "weak spot" in cottages - the long period in which they lag behind specialists because they're slowly growing up to size - isn't a big deal here.
Second point is just looking at the land. Floodplains make beautiful cottage land because you can develop the cottages and grow your city at the same time; you've got floodplains by the dozen on this map. By the time you're fighting foreign continents, your cottages should have grown to the point where they're outperforming what specialists would give. You might be a bit behind in tech in absolute terms, but you'll have Ragnar's holy city, a SPI leader, very high commerce, and an espionage slider...
As a thought for moving forward - I know you're usually partial to specialists, but I would consider transitioning to a cottage-heavy economy here for two reasons. One: you don't really need more research for a while. With Construction, and eventually Currency off war gold if nothing else, you have everything you need to develop your island. Sure, Calendar and Civil Service would be nice, but they're just nice, not game-changing, here. Just getting all the cities you're about to have grown up to size and with basic infrastructure is what will really impact your economy, not getting any one tech you lack (besides Currency, which you will get regardless of whether you start cottage-spamming or not). So the "weak spot" in cottages - the long period in which they lag behind specialists because they're slowly growing up to size - isn't a big deal here.
Second point is just looking at the land. Floodplains make beautiful cottage land because you can develop the cottages and grow your city at the same time; you've got floodplains by the dozen on this map. By the time you're fighting foreign continents, your cottages should have grown to the point where they're outperforming what specialists would give. You might be a bit behind in tech in absolute terms, but you'll have Ragnar's holy city, a SPI leader, very high commerce, and an espionage slider...
If I would play this I`d put the first city on Ragnars border, take his copper with CRE and take him out asap.
OneLeggedRhino
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@coanda Thanks for the vote of confidence. You were right about not using 3 cities to seal Gilgamesh off, though. If I'd done that, I probably wouldn't have been able to seal Ragnar.
On specialists vs cottages, I hadn't thought of that. This game, I'll have pyramids from Gilgamesh, so Rep specialists are quite good, but you make a good point about not needing anything critical for a bit.
My plan is to have 1 cottage city (the one surrounded by floodplains, with 11 tiles overlapping with other cities), and the rest going specialists.
A question, though: Are cottages actually better long-term? 7C 1H seems better than 6C 3 GPP, but you'll want to build all the money multipliers in cottage cities, which takes away those hammers pretty quickly. Plus, you can regrow faster after whipping universities in a farm city. At the risk of turning this into a cottage vs specialist thread, I'll say that, aside from your capital with its Bur multiplier, cottages and specialists seem about equal long-term, but specialists are stronger short-term, particularly with the pyramids. But I could just be missing something, since I decided this long ago and haven't gone cottage-heavy since.
@Burn: We didn't get attacked partly by luck, and partly by sharing a religion with the AIs. I changed my BUFFY mod to a custom assets install, so you can play the game too. Savefile is in the first post, and another one after I got the 3 cities.
On specialists vs cottages, I hadn't thought of that. This game, I'll have pyramids from Gilgamesh, so Rep specialists are quite good, but you make a good point about not needing anything critical for a bit.
My plan is to have 1 cottage city (the one surrounded by floodplains, with 11 tiles overlapping with other cities), and the rest going specialists.
A question, though: Are cottages actually better long-term? 7C 1H seems better than 6C 3 GPP, but you'll want to build all the money multipliers in cottage cities, which takes away those hammers pretty quickly. Plus, you can regrow faster after whipping universities in a farm city. At the risk of turning this into a cottage vs specialist thread, I'll say that, aside from your capital with its Bur multiplier, cottages and specialists seem about equal long-term, but specialists are stronger short-term, particularly with the pyramids. But I could just be missing something, since I decided this long ago and haven't gone cottage-heavy since.
@Burn: We didn't get attacked partly by luck, and partly by sharing a religion with the AIs. I changed my BUFFY mod to a custom assets install, so you can play the game too. Savefile is in the first post, and another one after I got the 3 cities.
OneLeggedRhino
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Conquering the West (Turns 283-327, Years 670-230 BC)
490: The list of the largest civilizations comes out. I'm #2. Which is actually kind of scary, since I'm pretty huge right now. Anyone know if largest is land area or population?
470: Ragnar completes the Hanging Gardens. Always nice to get another goodie.
460: The best time to whip:
Different units will be optimal at different speeds, but on marathon, if you put 1 turn into a catapult or an elephant, then whip, you'll have enough overflow to almost complete a second unit.
410: My stack, ready to attack:
Also, I've learned that there is a whole other part of the island:
Ragnar's city over there used to be a barb city. It looks like the barbs settle the choke and sealed off a nice backfill. I can probably fit another 5 cities in there.
400: I take Ragnar's city with no losses. Elephants are so overwhelming that I didn't even bother attacking with catapults.
Keep.
390: Currency completes. I'm still on military production for now, but soon, I'll switch most cities to building wealth.
Next is sailing, to pick up the island cities for some trade routes. (With 20 cities and the Great Lighthouse, each island city will do 28 CPT in trade. That's basically a shrine.)
370: We find some gems in a hill by Thebes. Totally luck, but I'm glad to have the extra happiness.
Also, my stack arrives at Ragnar's next city. It's another slaughter. (I think I lose 1 catapult.)
I'd gone after Ragnar because I thought he had the shrine. A great prophet come out for him earlier, but he must have bulbed with it or something. Damn.
If this wasn't the holy city, I'd raze it. But since it is, I keep it. It has a deer, so he can at least work a couple scientists and pay for itself.
How to get a GP? Egypt has a unique monument that lets you run 2 priests. I tech Mysticism (2 turns), stop running scientists, and start working priests in a couple of cities. (Each one has a small chance of coming up as great scientist.)
320: After 2 turns bombarding, we're ready for the next city. This one actually has defenses.
It takes two terms to kill everything, and I get another good city.
280: Sailing completes. Next is monotheism, for whipping infrastructure. After that, Meditation, Priesthood and Code of Laws. (Why not go for CoL first? Courthouses are expensive, and OR saves a pop when you whip. Plus, I'd like to whip a market in Commerce.)
230: After a few turns bombarding and healing, I take Ragnar's capital:
Hanging Gardens is nice with all these floodplains. Great Lighthouse is nice, too, but all the trade routes are 1C internal ones, so it's not a huge deal. Still, I'd never turn down free commerce.
Ragnar has two cities left. One is on the other side of Gligamesh, so I'll leave it for now. (Though I'll have to take that one to claim that extra land to the east.)
His other one, I don't actually want:
I think I'll leave it so I can send spies and steal whatever techs Ragnar has, then wipe him out later. I'll probably do the same with Gilgamesh's worst city.
So, that's a wrap on the war with Ragnar. Next, I'll march my stack back east, and do the same to Gilgamesh.
490: The list of the largest civilizations comes out. I'm #2. Which is actually kind of scary, since I'm pretty huge right now. Anyone know if largest is land area or population?
Spoiler :
470: Ragnar completes the Hanging Gardens. Always nice to get another goodie.
Spoiler :
460: The best time to whip:
Spoiler :
Different units will be optimal at different speeds, but on marathon, if you put 1 turn into a catapult or an elephant, then whip, you'll have enough overflow to almost complete a second unit.
410: My stack, ready to attack:
Spoiler :
Also, I've learned that there is a whole other part of the island:
Spoiler :
Ragnar's city over there used to be a barb city. It looks like the barbs settle the choke and sealed off a nice backfill. I can probably fit another 5 cities in there.
400: I take Ragnar's city with no losses. Elephants are so overwhelming that I didn't even bother attacking with catapults.
Spoiler :
Keep.
390: Currency completes. I'm still on military production for now, but soon, I'll switch most cities to building wealth.
Next is sailing, to pick up the island cities for some trade routes. (With 20 cities and the Great Lighthouse, each island city will do 28 CPT in trade. That's basically a shrine.)
Spoiler :
370: We find some gems in a hill by Thebes. Totally luck, but I'm glad to have the extra happiness.
Spoiler :
Also, my stack arrives at Ragnar's next city. It's another slaughter. (I think I lose 1 catapult.)
Spoiler :
I'd gone after Ragnar because I thought he had the shrine. A great prophet come out for him earlier, but he must have bulbed with it or something. Damn.
If this wasn't the holy city, I'd raze it. But since it is, I keep it. It has a deer, so he can at least work a couple scientists and pay for itself.
How to get a GP? Egypt has a unique monument that lets you run 2 priests. I tech Mysticism (2 turns), stop running scientists, and start working priests in a couple of cities. (Each one has a small chance of coming up as great scientist.)
320: After 2 turns bombarding, we're ready for the next city. This one actually has defenses.
Spoiler :
It takes two terms to kill everything, and I get another good city.
Spoiler :
280: Sailing completes. Next is monotheism, for whipping infrastructure. After that, Meditation, Priesthood and Code of Laws. (Why not go for CoL first? Courthouses are expensive, and OR saves a pop when you whip. Plus, I'd like to whip a market in Commerce.)
Spoiler :
230: After a few turns bombarding and healing, I take Ragnar's capital:
Spoiler :
Hanging Gardens is nice with all these floodplains. Great Lighthouse is nice, too, but all the trade routes are 1C internal ones, so it's not a huge deal. Still, I'd never turn down free commerce.
Ragnar has two cities left. One is on the other side of Gligamesh, so I'll leave it for now. (Though I'll have to take that one to claim that extra land to the east.)
His other one, I don't actually want:
Spoiler :
I think I'll leave it so I can send spies and steal whatever techs Ragnar has, then wipe him out later. I'll probably do the same with Gilgamesh's worst city.
So, that's a wrap on the war with Ragnar. Next, I'll march my stack back east, and do the same to Gilgamesh.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think my position is fairly strong, but we haven't seen how the other continents are doing yet. Enjoy the game!
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Conquering the East (Turns 327-353, Years 230 BC - 30 AD)
I start by making peace with Ragnar. He gives me 130 G, plus it gets rid of a point of war weariness.
Then my stack spends about 10 turns crossing the continent.
While that's happening, I do a ton of whips. Two settlers, to grab those island cities:
Two markets, as soon as Monotheism completes:
Next is Meditation --> Priesthood --> Code of Laws. (I'll want Meditation for Philosophy. Because Pacifism is awesome once you've dominated your island.)
140: Desert island founded.
It's an absolutely awful city, but it brings in 21 CPT from trade routes:
That's right, this city is better than a shrine.
110: My stack is finally in the East, and I declare on Gilgamesh:
I'll heal and bombard on this side of the river for a little bit of protection, then cross once everybody's healthy.
And I settle the other island city:
Again, it's for the trade routes:
70 BC: The fish blocking city finishes slow-building another settler. He grabs that peninsula spot.
This will be my Moai Statues city. (And getting stone from Gilgamesh soon means I can make some failgold.)
60: Gilgamesh's city is finally bombarded down. I lose 4 cats and take most of the defenders.
You'll notice that Gilgamesh has longbows. Protective longbows. That would've worried me a while ago, but since the deity game playing as Hatty conquering Saladin, I know that they're not a big deal. They'll chew up your catapults, so you'll need a constant stream of new ones, but they won't stop a stack of elephants.
Next turn I take the city:
It's pretty nice, and it comes with the Chichen Itza. Not that I want the wonder, but it's nice that Gilgamesh doesn't have it anymore.
40: Priesthood completes. With spiritual, temples are great for a 2-pop whip with 80+ overflow. (A temple, a catapult, and 2 fewer pop solves a lot of war weariness problems.)
And by 20 AD, every cottage in my commerce city is being worked:
For anyone who tries to avoid overlap: This is one of the reasons why overlap is good.
30 AD: Gilgamesh's capital is bombarded down. I lose all my cats, and take the city.
Pyramids! Now I can convert all this food into research efficiently. It also comes with an Academy, a courthouse, a bunch of people, and stone. Really, a nice city.
From here, I just want to raze the 3 nearby cities to clear Gilg's culture. I'll leave his last city until I'm done spying. That's next turnset.
I start by making peace with Ragnar. He gives me 130 G, plus it gets rid of a point of war weariness.
Then my stack spends about 10 turns crossing the continent.
While that's happening, I do a ton of whips. Two settlers, to grab those island cities:
Spoiler :
Two markets, as soon as Monotheism completes:
Spoiler :
Next is Meditation --> Priesthood --> Code of Laws. (I'll want Meditation for Philosophy. Because Pacifism is awesome once you've dominated your island.)
Spoiler :
140: Desert island founded.
Spoiler :
It's an absolutely awful city, but it brings in 21 CPT from trade routes:
Spoiler :
That's right, this city is better than a shrine.
110: My stack is finally in the East, and I declare on Gilgamesh:
Spoiler :
I'll heal and bombard on this side of the river for a little bit of protection, then cross once everybody's healthy.
And I settle the other island city:
Spoiler :
Again, it's for the trade routes:
Spoiler :
70 BC: The fish blocking city finishes slow-building another settler. He grabs that peninsula spot.
Spoiler :
This will be my Moai Statues city. (And getting stone from Gilgamesh soon means I can make some failgold.)
60: Gilgamesh's city is finally bombarded down. I lose 4 cats and take most of the defenders.
Spoiler :
You'll notice that Gilgamesh has longbows. Protective longbows. That would've worried me a while ago, but since the deity game playing as Hatty conquering Saladin, I know that they're not a big deal. They'll chew up your catapults, so you'll need a constant stream of new ones, but they won't stop a stack of elephants.
Next turn I take the city:
Spoiler :
It's pretty nice, and it comes with the Chichen Itza. Not that I want the wonder, but it's nice that Gilgamesh doesn't have it anymore.
40: Priesthood completes. With spiritual, temples are great for a 2-pop whip with 80+ overflow. (A temple, a catapult, and 2 fewer pop solves a lot of war weariness problems.)
And by 20 AD, every cottage in my commerce city is being worked:
Spoiler :
For anyone who tries to avoid overlap: This is one of the reasons why overlap is good.
30 AD: Gilgamesh's capital is bombarded down. I lose all my cats, and take the city.
Spoiler :
Pyramids! Now I can convert all this food into research efficiently. It also comes with an Academy, a courthouse, a bunch of people, and stone. Really, a nice city.
From here, I just want to raze the 3 nearby cities to clear Gilg's culture. I'll leave his last city until I'm done spying. That's next turnset.
OneLeggedRhino
King
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 656
Burning Some Cities (Turns 353-375, Years 30-250 AD)
Gilgamesh has 4 more cities. Three of them are terrible, one of them is decent (has a fish), but it's the only one not culture crushing the cities I kept, so I'll leave that one for spy missions. This turnset is about burning the other cities.
100 AD: I take Kish. Sorry, the pre-attack shot didn't come out, but it was the one just SE of Ivory:
The BFC to the NW is Ivory. Gilg's capital is to the E, and I'll plant another city to get the deer plus a crab. So, once those tiles are taken, this one gets a fur and a wine. Yippee.
Burn.
Also, Code of Laws came in. As each city finishes its current build, it makes a courthouse. I whip quite a few, since going specialists instead of cottages gives you a lot of food-heavy cities.
Next tech is Civil Service. My commerce city wants Bureaucracy. (It starts the palace now, so it's ready for the civic.) Also, I could really use chain irrigation, what with representative specialists.
After that is Alphabet, for spying. (No point in getting it now, since I need to let the EPs build up first.)
170: Clearing culture in the north:
It's the holy Confucian city, but no one is Confucian. Burn.
250: Clearing the last city, SE of Gilg's capital:
It gets iron, but really, who cares? Burn.
I am glad for the 4 extra workers, though. I nabbed a couple earlier this turnset, too, bringing the total to 17. Still not enough, but much better.
Here's my units:
Lots of elephants, and enough catapults to bombard. That's really all I need at this point.
By the way, the Great General is chillin for now. I already have a super-healer, and I'm not making units right now, so he can wait until I pick my Heroic Epic city.
I intentionally leave Gilg's last city for spying.
He has Feudalism, Philosophy, and possibly some other stuff that I'm pretty sure Ragnar doesn't. Definitely worth stealing.
Time for peace. Gilg hates me (-7 from burning cities), but he still pays 130. Hopefully he'll open borders for my spies and a missionary eventually.
Next turnset, I'll turn the settler pump back on. There's 7 more cities to claim, on top of conquering the remaining AI cities. Thebes might never clear its whip anger.
Gilgamesh has 4 more cities. Three of them are terrible, one of them is decent (has a fish), but it's the only one not culture crushing the cities I kept, so I'll leave that one for spy missions. This turnset is about burning the other cities.
100 AD: I take Kish. Sorry, the pre-attack shot didn't come out, but it was the one just SE of Ivory:
Spoiler :
The BFC to the NW is Ivory. Gilg's capital is to the E, and I'll plant another city to get the deer plus a crab. So, once those tiles are taken, this one gets a fur and a wine. Yippee.
Burn.
Also, Code of Laws came in. As each city finishes its current build, it makes a courthouse. I whip quite a few, since going specialists instead of cottages gives you a lot of food-heavy cities.
Next tech is Civil Service. My commerce city wants Bureaucracy. (It starts the palace now, so it's ready for the civic.) Also, I could really use chain irrigation, what with representative specialists.
After that is Alphabet, for spying. (No point in getting it now, since I need to let the EPs build up first.)
170: Clearing culture in the north:
Spoiler :
It's the holy Confucian city, but no one is Confucian. Burn.
250: Clearing the last city, SE of Gilg's capital:
Spoiler :
It gets iron, but really, who cares? Burn.
I am glad for the 4 extra workers, though. I nabbed a couple earlier this turnset, too, bringing the total to 17. Still not enough, but much better.
Here's my units:
Spoiler :
Lots of elephants, and enough catapults to bombard. That's really all I need at this point.
By the way, the Great General is chillin for now. I already have a super-healer, and I'm not making units right now, so he can wait until I pick my Heroic Epic city.
I intentionally leave Gilg's last city for spying.
Spoiler :
He has Feudalism, Philosophy, and possibly some other stuff that I'm pretty sure Ragnar doesn't. Definitely worth stealing.
Time for peace. Gilg hates me (-7 from burning cities), but he still pays 130. Hopefully he'll open borders for my spies and a missionary eventually.
Next turnset, I'll turn the settler pump back on. There's 7 more cities to claim, on top of conquering the remaining AI cities. Thebes might never clear its whip anger.
Smilingrogue
Raging Barbarian
Nice work taking your continent. 
Do you have Confucianism in any of your cities? I would have been tempted to keep the Holy Confucian City if I don't have Confu already in a city for the sake of cheap temple happiness (Spiritual). Especially if I am going to be isolated from the other continent and not likely to get more happiness resources other than what's on this continent.
Then again, I only play Monarch and might be missing something with this line of thought. Good luck with your game
Do you have Confucianism in any of your cities? I would have been tempted to keep the Holy Confucian City if I don't have Confu already in a city for the sake of cheap temple happiness (Spiritual). Especially if I am going to be isolated from the other continent and not likely to get more happiness resources other than what's on this continent.
Then again, I only play Monarch and might be missing something with this line of thought. Good luck with your game
to be fair, i think warfare is a lot easier to pull off on marathon than normal. The time taken to wipe out Ragnar and 10 turns to march the army over to Gilgamesh would have almost certainly given Gilgamesh time to reach engineering and castles, which more or less stops elepults.
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