One thing that bugs me about China...

[The_J]

Exactly, one name. And while Mr Tzu is obviously one of the absolute heavy-weighters in terms of influencing the world (namely military doctrine), does this really warrant China, a nation of such incredible size and influence, to be cast as warmongers?

I guess (but don't know) that he was probably not the only one .
I'd also say that you could not have created such a big empire, if you did not have good strategists.

If that again outnumbers their scientific achievements...no idea .

 

[Villager720]

If I remember my history correctly, Beijing actually first achieved the rank of capital when the Mongols first conquered China. So, yes Beijing is a poor choice for a Chinese capital historically speaking.

 

[swimandciv]

The choosing of capitals has more to do with economics than anything else. It is designed so that westerners will recognize the capital of the country. If you talked to the average American they would know what Beijing is but not Chang'an. The same goes with India and New Delhi. It is interesting to me that Kyoto is known as the historical capital of Japan in the west while most other eastern civilization's historical capitals are not known.

 

[CoolLizy]

There are also those who argue that Japan's capital was never officially moved to Tokyo and that Kyoto is still the official capital.

 

[Dregor]

Why isn't Philadelphia the capital of America? It was the capital during Washington's presidency after all! (with a short stint in New York at the start of his term I think)

 

[That nerdy kid]

Thebes was burned to the ground by the Arabs and then they built Cairo 80 miles away. that's not very far. Cairo and Thebes would be on the same tile or next to each other on a civ map.

 

[sukritact]

I like that Beijing is the capital of China, I've also changed my game so that Siam has a more modern city list so that it's Krung thep (Bangkok) then Ayutthaya, then Sukhothai, followed by thai cities based on population.

I sorta find it weird that Luang Prabang and Vientiane are on the list when they now belong to Laos..

 

[qemist]

Montezuma dropping the Atomic Bomb or the Mongols landing on the moon isn't remotely historical. This game gives you a semi-historical setting,...

Some things can be correct without affecting the game. Why not make the tiny effort to get them right?

The choosing of capitals has more to do with economics than anything else. It is designed so that westerners will recognize the capital of the country. If you talked to the average American they would know what Beijing is but not Chang'an. The same goes with India and New Delhi. It is interesting to me that Kyoto is known as the historical capital of Japan in the west while most other eastern civilization's historical capitals are not known.

I doubt these "average Americans" are terribly familiar with Sukhothai. I think it's more likely Beijing was chosen to avoid ruffling feathers in Beijing. Or it could just be more random errors that slack quality control failed to catch.

 

[Villager720]

As an "average American" can we assume that historical lapses in the game weren't done to appease our tiny minds?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Exactly, one name. And while Mr Tzu is obviously one of the absolute heavy-weighters in terms of influencing the world (namely military doctrine), does this really warrant China, a nation of such incredible size and influence, to be cast as warmongers?

Complicated. In Civ5 terms: ancient China went down the liberty tree and settler-spammed with a federation system like the United States, then switched to honor around 500BC. Mr. Sun Tzu was the first great general from "warrior code" policy, there were more. In comparison, the Ancient Greeks started with the honor-tree and then switched to liberty and colonised Asia-Minor and Balkans.

I'd also say that you could not have created such a big empire, if you did not have good strategists.

Every culture that is still alive today must have had great and famous strategists. There's just NO EVIDENCE that China's best were better than the best from other civilisations. They had no basis for China's unique ability in Civ5.

 

[j51]

Thebes was burned to the ground by the Arabs and then they built Cairo 80 miles away. that's not very far. Cairo and Thebes would be on the same tile or next to each other on a civ map.

Cairo is ~80 miles from the site of Memphis. A quick google search of "Cairo to Luxor" (the modern city near next to the Thebes site) give an estimate upwards of 400 miles!

 

[j51]

I'm bored and love discussing this stuff. So here's a list of historical capitals for each civ, based on what was the most prevalent capital in that culture's history, or when that culture was at its peek of power:

Japan - Kyoto
Mongolia - Karakorum
Korea - Seoul? (I don't know much about Korean history.)
China - Chang'an then Luoyang (both Han and Tang), Kaifeng then Hangzhou (Song), Beijing (Yuan, later Ming, Qing, PRC)
Siam - Ayuthai
Polynesia - Mu'a (Tongan 'Empire')
India - Pataliputra (Maurya and Gupta)
Persia - Persepolis, Pasargadae, Susa, Ecbatana (The Achmaenids where noted for having multiple capitals for different functions/times of the year - I think that was even their special ability in RoN). Ctesiphon (Sassanid)
Babylonia - Babylon
Arabia - Medina (Rashidun), Damascus (Umayyad), Baghdad (Abbasid, with an interim in Samarra), Cairo (Fatimid)
Ottomans - Bursa and Edirne (early), Constantinople (not Istanbul)
Greece - Pella (Macedon)
Rome - Rome
Spain - Burgos, Toledo, Valladolid (Castille), Zaragoza (Aragon), Madrid (united Spain)
France - Paris
England - London
Germany - Berlin (Brandenburg-Prussia/2nd Empire), Aachen, Frankfurt, Regensburg (sort-of capitals of Holy Roman Empire), Vienna (Austria)
Denmark - Copenhagen (since high middle ages)
Russia - Moscow (Muscovy, Russian Empire), St. Petersburg (Czardom)
USA - Washington
Iroquois - Onondaga
Aztecs - Tenochtitlan (leading city of Triple Alliance. Speaking of which shouldn't those be the first three Aztec cities?)
Incas - Cuzco
Egypt - Memphis (Old Kingdom), Thebes (Middle and most of New Kingdom)
Songhai - Gao

 

[j51]

If you were to pick the capital based on each leader, I think it would look like this:

Oda: Kyoto
Genghis: Karakorum
Sejong: Seoul
Wu: Chang'an
Ramkhamhaeng: Sukhothai
Kamehameha: Honolulu
Gandhi: (New) Delhi
Darius: Persepolis, or Susa
Nebuchadnezzar II: Babylon
Harun: Baghdad
Suleiman: Constantinople (not Istanbul)
Alexander: Pella
Augustus: Rome
Isabella: Toledo, or Valladolid?
Napoleon: Paris
Elizabeth: London
Bismarck: Berlin
Harald: Roskilde
Catherine II: St. Petersburg
Washington: Philadelphia, or New York (as has been noted above)
Hiawatha: Onondaga
Moctezuma: Tenochtitlan
Pachacuti: Cuzco
Ramesses II: Pi-Ramesses
Askia: Gao

 

[smallfish]

Nebuchadnezzar II: Babylon
Harun: Baghdad

Seriously?

 

[j51]

Yes, why? It's historically accurate. That's all I was going for, not geographic practicality.

 

[TImithius]

First of I all I thought I was bad when it came to people making historical inaccuracies, no matter what Beijing is still a major city of the world and capital of modern China, even if there were many other Chinese capitals. Its like arguing that Rome's capital should be Ravenna or Constantinople. It As stated above every Civilization has had different capitals at some point in time, they change upon who is in control. And with the "Simple Minded" Americans, which I am supposively one, we actually do world history in Massachusetts up to 9th grade, then at 10th we do our own history. Our student history book covers all of the civs in this game, so don't act like we don't know anything about Asia

 

[smallfish]

Yes, why? It's historically accurate. That's all I was going for, not geographic practicality.

like having 2000 year wars and FLINTSTONES MURCA is accurate, neh?

 

[Becomedeath]

I'd like to know how anyone expects a stable game that doesn't have huge changes every turn to be historically accurate?

The game covers 6000 years of history, China's had about a hundred capitals if you count pre and post unification and then they have names that change every couple of hundred years, so if you want to lose your capital on the map every 10 minutes because of some historical point then feel free, but I think there are more pressing matters than historical accuracy in Civ.

Moreover, good luck with your 17th Century voyage to Alpha Centauri. And have fun playing Civs that didn't make it out of the BC era!

Tis a game gentlemen, just a game. What you're looking for, is the history channel. (Which is not a game, just so you know.)

 

[qemist]

If you were to pick the capital based on each leader, I think it would look like this:
...
Darius: Persepolis, or Susa...

Good list. I'm pretty sure that when Darius ascended the throne Susa was the capital. He later moved it to Persepolis.

 

[j51]

like having 2000 year wars and FLINTSTONES MURCA is accurate, neh?

I believe its spelled 'Merica.

Tis a game gentlemen, just a game. What you're looking for, is the history channel. (Which is not a game, just so you know.)

Tis, and you're free to enjoy it however you want. I think the history channel is what You're looking for. What with the alien stuff and Larry the cable guy.