One World needs Amphibious invasions like Civ 4

[Cedbird]

Who remembers being on a Continent on Civ 4 . Having a tough go at it or not . But just going about your Civilization on a sunny day sipping Pina coladas . Then BOOM Someone who denounced you ten turns earlier are at your door stop with Frigates , horseman , swordsman upgrades ( i forgot their name in Civ 4 ) and you are in a world of trouble .
I used to have a way of dealing with that . My secret ha ha but I still got caught off guard . Made the game fun .
Now if I my biggest rival is on another Continent or really far away . I am not afraid . And I know the game is over . This needs fixing to make this game more awesome . Although it is already awesome .

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

God and Kings, dude. And it's not so much that the new melee class naval units. The AI is given a greater interest in naval action and using navies to attack cities.

 

[Heerlo]

What do you mean "someone who denounced you ten turns earlier"? Denouncements weren't in Civ4, were they?

Well, about the topic: Not long before I got G&K I was playing vanilla and even on it an AI from another continent landed troops on my continent. Not many, but it was some. Haven't yet been in much of a situation to see this happen in G&K yet, though.

 

[Loucypher]

Some civs definitely do this. William for example was on the other end of the continent from me. South of York, there was a bit of desert boardering the coast which I didn't settle. He denounced me, I shrug. Few turns later, six sea beggars and four frigates are on York's doorstep, and he landed a few trebuchets and longswordmen on that desert. Best naval invasion I've ever seen in G&K. He did take York and Hastings too mostly because I was too busy fighting with Songhai to the north before I could retaliate.

It's not just William who does this, too. But he IS one of the premier naval civs in the game. I've also seen Dido, Augustus (bit of a surprise), Askia and Suleiman pull off naval invasions like that, if not quite as well-thought out as this particular one.

 

[steveg700]

I've had amphibious invasions from the AI. Couple nights ago, Napoleon shipped a settler onto the coast near my continent, settled a little city, and a few turns later DoW followed by his army pouring in on every front.

This isn't frequent because civ's on other continents usually have better things to do, like deal with their neighbors.

 

[kaspergm]

Now if I my biggest rival is on another Continent or really far away . I am not afraid . And I know the game is over . This needs fixing to make this game more awesome . Although it is already awesome .

I got my @$$ royally kicked by Persia AI the other day. I was playing Maya cultural and was sitting on my own smallish continent after I had taken out Lizzy. Persia was complete runaway on the major landmass, having taken out both France, Germany and Inca. I was actually keeping up pretty good with science compared to the others, I had just entered Industrial and gotten Gattling Guns and Rifflemen. Then Darius whom I had been friendly with entire game came knocking on my door with a couple of battleships, some cariers with Bombers and (lol) a Rocket Artillery or two. I think my entire army was whiped out turn 2 after he DoW'd me ...

So I'd say, you shouldn't feel too safe necessarily.

 

[smallfish]

God and Kings, dude. And it's not so much that the new melee class naval units. The AI is given a greater interest in naval action and using navies to attack cities.

Yes, this. Gets even more noticeably on higher levels when... just see this. Hiawatha was spraying nukes at both China and Attila, and managed to hold off both them plus Rome and the Greeks for quite sometime... then Alex showed him who the REAL runaway was

Between Autocracy Greeks and their fellows the Huns, poor new yorkers couldn't match up.

Spoiler :

And for a reason too (before game crashed, Alex had reached 1.8 million standing troops)

Spoiler :

 

[Cedbird]

God and Kings, dude. And it's not so much that the new melee class naval units. The AI is given a greater interest in naval action and using navies to attack cities.

I stand by my statement . If you are in North America . No one from Asia or Europe going to come knocking at your door with any kind of invasion force worth worrying about . In Civ 4 they came with army and the army band . They were ready to put in a new Mcdonalds the next week after they got your city .
G&K included yes the Naval part is better but the Ai still sucks even at that . But amphib ? You may get a little action if your really close to some one . But that 's it .

 

[Cedbird]

What do you mean "someone who denounced you ten turns earlier"? Denouncements weren't in Civ4, were they?

Well, about the topic: Not long before I got G&K I was playing vanilla and even on it an AI from another continent landed troops on my continent. Not many, but it was some. Haven't yet been in much of a situation to see this happen in G&K yet, though.

As far as the denouncements your right . Got my terminology mixed up . But they were hostile with you let me say .
As far as your testimony . I have the same . In Vanilla I had a Civ come over with a few here and few there . I was so surprised and so busy taking care of another Civ that they took a city or two . I was shocked . . But my defense was really really bad and did not take the invasion serious until my capital was at yellow defense status . A little too late to send my troops to stop it .

 

[Cedbird]

Some civs definitely do this. William for example was on the other end of the continent from me. South of York, there was a bit of desert boardering the coast which I didn't settle. He denounced me, I shrug. Few turns later, six sea beggars and four frigates are on York's doorstep, and he landed a few trebuchets and longswordmen on that desert. Best naval invasion I've ever seen in G&K. He did take York and Hastings too mostly because I was too busy fighting with Songhai to the north before I could retaliate.

It's not just William who does this, too. But he IS one of the premier naval civs in the game. I've also seen Dido, Augustus (bit of a surprise), Askia and Suleiman pull off naval invasions like that, if not quite as well-thought out as this particular one.

Exactly my point . Every Civ should have this in there bag of tricks . It should be a normal thing . I saw this on a regular basis in Civ 4 . I never went past the normal level on Civ 4 . I was a decent player and dominated some games but there were others were the Ai thrashed me . . I play Emperor on G & K and amphib invasions are never very impressive .

 

[Cedbird]

I've had amphibious invasions from the AI. Couple nights ago, Napoleon shipped a settler onto the coast near my continent, settled a little city, and a few turns later DoW followed by his army pouring in on every front.

This isn't frequent because civ's on other continents usually have better things to do, like deal with their neighbors.

Good explanation . However I don 't think it is sufficent for gameplay and realism . Especially when the previous edition had something so critical to gameplay and realism and the upgrade does not . Does not make sense .

 

[Cedbird]

I got my @$$ royally kicked by Persia AI the other day. I was playing Maya cultural and was sitting on my own smallish continent after I had taken out Lizzy. Persia was complete runaway on the major landmass, having taken out both France, Germany and Inca. I was actually keeping up pretty good with science compared to the others, I had just entered Industrial and gotten Gattling Guns and Rifflemen. Then Darius whom I had been friendly with entire game came knocking on my door with a couple of battleships, some cariers with Bombers and (lol) a Rocket Artillery or two. I think my entire army was whiped out turn 2 after he DoW'd me ...

So I'd say, you shouldn't feel too safe necessarily.

Ha ha funny . More specifics . Were you being sarcastic with the number of units he brought ? What size was your army compared to his . At least the size of the army that was visiting you .
Just asking but sounds impressive enough .

 

[Cedbird]

Yes, this. Gets even more noticeably on higher levels when... just see this. Hiawatha was spraying nukes at both China and Attila, and managed to hold off both them plus Rome and the Greeks for quite sometime... then Alex showed him who the REAL runaway was

Between Autocracy Greeks and their fellows the Huns, poor new yorkers couldn't match up.

Spoiler :

And for a reason too (before game crashed, Alex had reached 1.8 million standing troops)

Spoiler :

Nice !

 

[Heerlo]

As far as your testimony . I have the same . In Vanilla I had a Civ come over with a few here and few there . I was so surprised and so busy taking care of another Civ that they took a city or two . I was shocked . . But my defense was really really bad and did not take the invasion serious until my capital was at yellow defense status . A little too late to send my troops to stop it .

That's sorta what happened to me on vanilla. I was involved in a fierce struggle with Arabia, the only other civ on my continent, when Alexander shows up with a few units on my east coast! I didn't see that comin'.

 

[steveg700]

Good explanation . However I don 't think it is sufficent for gameplay and realism . Especially when the previous edition had something so critical to gameplay and realism and the upgrade does not . Does not make sense .

You use the word "realism" liberally. An empire who might be at war at any minute with any or all of his covetous neighbors would have some very sensible, very believable reasons for not sending a huge portion of his military across an ocean in the hopes of bushwhacking another empire on another continent, of which he likely has seen nothing more than a coastline. Indeed, it seems fairly capricious to do so. And it seems cartoonishly unrealistic for this to be common, as you'd have armies floating across the ocean on the way to sneak attacking each other.

As to this happening in Civ IV, you had stacks of death. it made the size of your overall army far less important. Civ V very aggressively uses maintenance costs to ensure armies don't grow so large that you run out of tiles for them to stand in. So, you're very much faced with the above dilemma: invade a guy on the other side of the world with an army massive enough to overcome the home advantage, or be able to defend your own doorstep.

 

[kaspergm]

Ha ha funny . More specifics . Were you being sarcastic with the number of units he brought ? What size was your army compared to his . At least the size of the army that was visiting you .
Just asking but sounds impressive enough .

My army was not particularly big, being on an Island with only another civ (which I had taken out), the army he brought was not particularly big either - it was just the fact that his units were 4 tech levels (late Atomic vs. early Industrial) ahead of mine that mean that I didn't stand a single chance. I had some Gatling guns leveled up with double-shot and extra range, but his battle-ships would take them out with a single shot. And half of my cities were puppet English cities with fairly low defence, who would take 200 damage in a single shot when he brought in his Rocket Artillery. Under normal circumstances, I am able to fend off their naval attacks fairly easily, but when someone is an extreme run-away, there's nothing you can do.

I had hoped to be able to snatch a cultural victory from him before he finished Apollo (which I did have a good chance of achieving, being in my 5th policy tree and bringing in some 800 CPT), but either I have to give the AI more credit than I usually do in planning the long-term goals, or (more likely) he just saw an opportunity in my underdeveloped military and went for it, having cleared everything off his own continent.

 

[smallfish]

I got my @$$ royally kicked by Persia AI the other day. I was playing Maya cultural and was sitting on my own smallish continent after I had taken out Lizzy. Persia was complete runaway on the major landmass, having taken out both France, Germany and Inca. I was actually keeping up pretty good with science compared to the others, I had just entered Industrial and gotten Gattling Guns and Rifflemen. Then Darius whom I had been friendly with entire game came knocking on my door with a couple of battleships, some cariers with Bombers and (lol) a Rocket Artillery or two. I think my entire army was whiped out turn 2 after he DoW'd me ...

Was this on Immortal+...?

Just had a Deity Babylon game where I started off nice and isolated, but didn't fill up the empty space quickly enough. Soon my supposed friend from other continent Suleymann backstabbed me really hard

He didn't send much stuff over at first... but my spy in Istanbul told me he had tons of units massing for an amphibious attack (10+ units) and then he brought off the CS below me

Spoiler :

Then his first wave arrived.

Pretty poor unit grouping on his part (seen better by other folks too), but not that it mattered since he had bombers and arty and I didn't

Spoiler :

The only reason I didn't lose Nippur was mainly because I had paid off Monty to DOW him, and Monty had a very big army ready to steamroll everyone else on his continent. Suleymann lose quite a number of cities while he was busy trying to colonize me, eh, so a white peace was given

Spoiler :

 

[kaspergm]

Was this on Immortal+...?

No this was on Emperor, actually, although playing with some mods that change balance a bit.

 

[steveg700]

The only reason I didn't lose Nippur was mainly because I had paid off Monty to DOW him, and Monty had a very big army ready to steamroll everyone else on his continent. Suleymann lose quite a number of cities while he was busy trying to colonize me, eh, so a white peace was given.[/SPOILER]

So, basically Sully's plan to invade a guy on the other side of the world with an army massive enough to overcome the home advantage didn't pan out because he didn't consider that he might be at war at any minute with any or all of his covetous neighbors ?

Now that seems realistic.