Only Four Civs

[~frogchild~]

Here's a thought experiment that's been in my mind for a while, and I thought I'd share it.

Say that, for some reason, the next Civ game only features 4 civs. Which civs do you include. I've been thinking about this for a while.

• Rome
• China
• Egypt
• Assyria

My list looks something like this, but you could choose to go for more modern, or different criteria. My personal list is focused on some of the most powerful civs of the ancient/classical Era. I'm certain on Rome and China, but Egypt and Assyria could be swapped out.

So, if the next Civ game only included 4 civs, which would you choose for it to include.

 

[Sostratus]

I agree that Rome/China are very solid anchor civs. Egypt i think is the biggest 3rd place guy.
The question is, are we trying to get civs in that can sort of fill in for the full length of history?
Rome->Italy/Europe
China->China/Asia
Egypt->Egypt/Africa
The problem comes that you only have 4, so you want to have them not all bunched up - IE Rome-Egypt-Assyria is probably too concentrated on the classical near east. What you are missing in slot 4 is the new world, but there's not a great selection. You Could throw in the the aztecs, since they offer a lot of unique options and are well known enough, but they don't translate as well to industrial+ societies.
The USA has a lot of options too, but it doesn't have that "ultra historic" piece, it's a more modern civ.

What else is changing about this game?

 

[Michaelf7777777]

I agree with China and Egypt. I'd give the last two spots to India and Persia. If representation from Europe or the America's were wanted I'd go for either a Greek-Roman hybrid or an English speaking peoples hybrid.

 

[Naeshar]

Here's a thought experiment that's been in my mind for a while, and I thought I'd share it.
Say that, for some reason, the next Civ game only features 4 civs. Which civs do you include.

Four Civilizations is very limiting. They have to be staple civs, which are included in each version, and even then you must limit .
I'd say these:

• Egypt (ancient - Africa)
• Rome (classical - Europe)
• Mongols (medieval - Asia)
• America (modern - Americas)

America is of course included because of reasons (not my favourite).

 

[~frogchild~]

I agree that Rome/China are very solid anchor civs. Egypt i think is the biggest 3rd place guy.
The question is, are we trying to get civs in that can sort of fill in for the full length of history?
Rome->Italy/Europe
China->China/Asia
Egypt->Egypt/Africa
The problem comes that you only have 4, so you want to have them not all bunched up - IE Rome-Egypt-Assyria is probably too concentrated on the classical near east. What you are missing in slot 4 is the new world, but there's not a great selection. You Could throw in the the aztecs, since they offer a lot of unique options and are well known enough, but they don't translate as well to industrial+ societies.
The USA has a lot of options too, but it doesn't have that "ultra historic" piece, it's a more modern civ.

What else is changing about this game?

Theres nothing else about this game, it's just a thought experiment.

The other civs I considered were India and Maya

I agree with China and Egypt. I'd give the last two spots to India and Persia. If representation from Europe or the America's were wanted I'd go for either a Greek-Roman hybrid or an English speaking peoples hybrid.

Persia is also a good option

Four Civilizations is very limiting. They have to be staple civs, which are included in each version, and even then you must limit .
I'd say these:

• Egypt (ancient - Africa)
• Rome (classical - Europe)
• Mongols (medieval - Asia)
• America (modern - Americas)

America is of course included because of reasons (not my favourite).

I see the appeal of a geographiclly and temporarlly spread one, but personally I think a cradles of civilization style approach works better

 

[Naeshar]

I see the appeal of a geographically and temporarlly spread one, but personally I think a cradles of civilization style approach works better

What if I joined geographical-temporal spread with a cradle of civilization principle? Each of the named was very impactful and had a Rise in a given time period, could be considered the world-shaking power and had its follow-up states or kingdoms or the like. Egypt has probably the weakest claim in this regard, as one of its followers is Rome - there were several contestants in the bronze age, but Egypt survived harmed the least and might be best known. Rome influenced the Mediterranean and later whole of Europe claimed its heritage. Mongol Empire conquered much of Asia and eastern Europe, having followers in Timurid, China and Russian area in the late medieval/renaissance. USA emerged late, but quickly grew geographically and wealth-wise and claimed hegemony over all Americas and some Oceania, while its economy principles and culture took root all over the place.

So while having ancient cradles makes sense for Civilization, a game might be better off with more variety, where different Civs get bonuses in different eras. A roster of Indus - China - Mesopotamia - Egypt is very ancient-oriented and hardly covers new trends originating elsewhere. Particularly China was very contained though leading in invention for some time.

 

[Naokaukodem]

1. States
2. Barbarians
3. Pastoralists
4. Hunters/gatherers
5 ?. City-States ?

Or :

1. Western
2. Eastern
3. African
4. Native American

 

[Camikaze]

I agree you'd have to go for concepts or regions rather than discrete empires - otherwise there's too much to miss out on! European, African, Asian & American could work, but I think if the game were limited in this way, it would be more fun to approach it from the perspective of different types of civilization, like @Naokaukodem sets out.

 

[Xandinho]

In my opinion, the four most basic civilizations are: Greece, China, Egypt and Rome.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

This is such a tough choice to narrow it down to just 4.

My 4 would be: Rome, China, Egypt, and Maya

Indonesia, Greece, Persia, and Inca were other tempting choices.

 

[hr_oskar]

China
India (!)
Persia representing the Middle East (Egypt included) and Central Asia.
Rome representing the Graeco-Roman tradition of Europe.

Yes, Persia over Egypt -- because it is the first culture to unify the entire region in one great empire. From the Achaemenid Empire onwards Egypt becomes more of a prize for other empires than an actor on its own.

Inca and/or Aztecs would be my 5th/6th picks to represent the major regions of American civilization.

 

[Robo-Star]

Say that, for some reason, the next Civ game only features 4 civs. Which civs do you include.

• Chinese
  
• Romans
  
• Germanic peoples
  
• Indians

So while having ancient cradles makes sense for Civilization, a game might be better off with more variety, where different Civs get bonuses in different eras.

Civ Rev has different Civs get different bonuses in different eras; the bonuses in later eras would have to be exponentially better than the bonuses in earlier eras if some Civs didn't get any bonuses in earlier eras.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Hm. My pick would be either:

China (as vicariously repping Mongolia, Tibet, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam)
Russia (as vicariously repping Ukraine and various Turkic/Indo-Iranian steppe peoples, and arguably Rome/Byzantium)
Britain (as vicariously repping the Celtic nations, America, Canada, and Australia)
Arabia (as vicariously repping Spain, Morocco, Egypt, the Ottomans, Oman, and certain Persian polities)

China
Russia
Spain (as vicariously incorporating Portugal and the entirety of Latin America, which also by extension culturally incorporated the other large American empires/peoples)
Persia (as vicariously repping Greece, Arabia, Turks, and India, by way of the Timurids)

Depending on how broadly we paint the Norse/Danes I could feel comfortable swapping Russia for some proto-pan-Scandinavian civ, since that would cover parts of Britain, Canada, and impliedly rep other Germanic peoples like the Goths. That's a lot messier to design though.

There's no neat way to do this because you have to stretch to adequately fill out the Americas one way or another, and it's pretty hard to choose between Britain and Spain, and neither seems especially satisfying. Neither does Russia, for that matter.

An easy copout would be:

America
European Union
Brazil
China

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

China - I think that one is obvious. It has been the epicenter of Asia forever.
Greece - Their culture is the bedrock of western civilization.
Sumeria - In a game about Civilization Sumeria was one of the first civilizations ever, it's impact on the world is so ingrained it's easy to overlook.
England - The most widespread language in the world is still English. They had the largest empire ever. Long and rich history touching every continent.

 

[Kimiimaro]

China - One of the oldest Empires in the world, and exists in the present day. There are enough dynasties and leaders to guide us from the ancient era to industrial era with Qing, replaced further by the Chinese Republic, and admittably controversial PRC. A good choice for Eastern Asia.
Persia - Media, Achaemenids, Parthia, Sassanids, Safavids, Afsharids, ... Another very ancient civilisation existing even today. Fit for the Middle East.
Greece - Again, we can go from Mycenae through Athens and other city-states, through Byzantines, mayhaps some Ottoman Greek governor. Independent post-Ottoman Greece also has a few centuries of history to offer. A good choice for Europe.
Egypt - From oldest dynasties, through Ptolemaic Kingdom, through Muhammad Ali Pasha (an excellent alt leader choice to me, and would fit El Helwa Di, since it's an Arabic song), to Nasser... Even though Ptolemaic Kingdom was Greek, and since Islamic conquest was Egypt more and more Arab, we're still talking of a rich African country thriving around the fertile Nile river.

 

[WickedChild]

Dude, that'd be a weird (but funny) situation. Hard to think tho, as the civs would have to be more "remarkable". For me, those civs would have to be divided by cultural region, era, level of importance, continent and, most importantly, game strategy.

It would likely be:
Ancient Era/Africa: Egypt
Classical Era/Asia: India
Medieval Era/Middle East: Arabia
Renaissance/Europe: Spain

Other combinations would be:
China (Ancient Asia)
Rome (Classical Europe)
Aztec (Pre-Columbian America)
Songhai (Ren. Africa)

Sumer (Ancient East)
Persia (Classical East)
France (Medieval Europe)
Incan (Ren. America)

Greece (Ancient Europe)
Mayan (Classical America)
Japan (Medieval Asia)
Ottoman (Ren. East)