OPM chief shrugs off calls for her resignation after hacking

Yet seem happy to proclaim with pride that they live in the land of the free? Sometimes I just do not understand people.
The rhetoric has always been so much hypocritical hyperbole. This is particularly true in regard to how the US government treats those who are not US citizens. At least we are supposedly protected from assassinations, torture, and murder by our own government, much less how the US spies on almost every single other nation. This is why I don't understand at all the overreaction to the Chinese finally doing the same to us.

Even Israel stole out most closely guarded secrets concerning nuclear weapons - acts which cost the Rosenbergs their lives when they gave far less vital information to the Soviets and helped fuel the Cold War from a fantasy of ultraconservatives to rampant national hysteria. Yet hardly anybody has been held accountable for their continuing espionage which apparently even resulted in massive quantities of.fissile material being stolen from a US company by Mossad.
 
I find it amazing that this demonisation has happened, in a country that is into freedom, to a word that literally means [an advocate of|advocating] freedom.


There have always been limits on how people would allow freedom for others. Many want freedom for themselves, but are unwilling to let others be free in return.
 
Ironically, many of them even claim that giving homosexuals their own rights is depriving them of the right to discriminate against them. That is a war on Christianity to do so.
 
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You see the problem here is that you accept the terms of argument of those people who want to discredit liberalism as factually correct without ever having learned of anything of the subject yourself to make up your own mind. Modern liberals have defeated socialism. There isn't any part of it that they have adopted. Claiming so just means that you don't know what either of them are.

Modern conservatives and libertarians reject classical liberalism. The modern liberal is the heir of the classical liberal. Because classical liberalism is based on reason. Conservatism and libertarianism are just emotional gut reactions with no evidence.
Geo-libertarians are the true heirs of the classical liberals. We are the ones who most focus on eliminating government granted privileges in order to allow the free market to best serve the poor.

That's what modern liberalism is. The adoption of policies to protect an inherently conservative system.

That much is true. It is a system of compromises (sometimes socialistic in nature, often paternalistic) adopted in order to treat symptoms without addressing the underlying problems inherit in the system. Rather than eliminate injustice, it seeks to mitigate the harm caused by the parasites just enough to keep the host able to support them.

The problems are not inherit to true capitalism, but are due to rent seeking. Modern liberals don't want to strike at the root to eliminate the harm caused by rentiers.

Because they are conservatives. And conservatism is at heart about the maintenance of traditional power. Having government intervene in the economy is a threat to the power of the elite.

The New Deal was more Fascist than anything. Mussolini was a big fan of Roosevelt, and was quite surprised that the US under him chose to be his enemy rather than ally.

Fascism does not have to have any racial component, but involves seeing society as a corporate body where different members must serve their proper roles to advance the health of the State. It allows private ownership of the means of production, but does not allow private owners to exercise significant control. It involves compulsory group mediation between boards representing the interests of labor unions and the captains of industry, forbidding private individuals the freedom to contract on their own terms. It involves draconian price fixing measures (like those imposed by Roosevelt's NRA) which will not allow goods or services to be sold either too cheaply or too dear. This of course leads to shortages and horrible inefficiency.


Having the government intervene in the economy may be a threat to the power of some elites, but is essential to the power of most of them. The richest of the rich in the world today are only rich due to government contracts, monopolies (patents, copyrights, titles over natural resources than cannot be considered legitimate property under Lockean homesteading, various licenses, etc), or regulations which impose fixed costs of compliance that makes it harder for new competitors to enter the market.

Big government and big business are not generally opposed to each other. They are usually codependent.
Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production. Something liberals do not want. Communism is more extreme down that path, with the very idea of ownership of the means of production gone. Populism has nothing to do with either. Populism is just governance by the will of the majority, whatever that might be.

Liberalism is the use of government and reason to correct the flaws in a market economy system so that it benefits all of the people, and not just the elite. But if you continue to refuse to accept actual definitions of terms as, you know, actual definitions of terms, then you make conversation impossible.

If you are defining liberalism as socialism, then you are not speaking the English language. And as that is the only language I speak, I can't communicate with you.
"The means of production" is a slippery term that obfuscates the important distinctions between the 3 factors of production: land, labor, and capital.

Marx did define the term socialism as state ownership of the means of production, but he was far from the first to use the term socialism.

Socialism is a broad term which originally applied to any system that attempted to address social problems. In this sense it includes a great many anarchists, libertarians etc. The term narrowed over time to systems in which the government bears the responsibility to address such social problems through regulation. It was widely used in that sense long before any of Marx's works were first translated in English.

Communism to Marx was an anarchic stage of society that could only occur once a socialist state had performed its role of abolishing private ownership of the means of production and then dismantled itself. The term had previously been used for many systems where groups held goods in common though, especially in monasteries.


True liberalism is "laissez-faire, laissez-passer," where neither the state nor rentiers can hinder the function of the free market. The state need only intervene to address acts of aggression or fraud.

Modern liberalism impairs the functioning of the market in many ways. It is not often as openly fascist as the New Deal was, but it is still far from Liberal.
 
Geo-libertarians are the true heirs of the classical liberals. We are the ones who most focus on eliminating government granted privileges in order to allow the free market to best serve the poor.
That of course rests on the assumption that such a market is capable of benefitting everyone to the greatest extent possible - and assuming that such a market can exist outside of an Econ 101 class.

The problems are not inherit to true capitalism, but are due to rent seeking. Modern liberals don't want to strike at the root to eliminate the harm caused by rentiers.
So how would 'true capitalism' deal with market inefficiencies caused by missing markets? Using the example of a factory. They have to dispose of the waste somehow, and in the absence of an 'air market' government regulation and intervention is required for the market to resemble anything vaguely like an efficient market.


The New Deal was more Fascist than anything. Mussolini was a big fan of Roosevelt, and was quite surprised that the US under him chose to be his enemy rather than ally.
Sources for that?
The only times I've seen the New Deal called 'fascist' before was by Mises and Cato style nutjobs -the sort who think everything from police, to courts, to pharmaceutical safety inspections should be privatized.


Fascism does not have to have any racial component, but involves seeing society as a corporate body where different members must serve their proper roles to advance the health of the State. It allows private ownership of the means of production, but does not allow private owners to exercise significant control. It involves compulsory group mediation between boards representing the interests of labor unions and the captains of industry, forbidding private individuals the freedom to contract on their own terms. It involves draconian price fixing measures (like those imposed by Roosevelt's NRA) which will not allow goods or services to be sold either too cheaply or too dear. This of course leads to shortages and horrible inefficiency.
By those requirements France, Germany, the UK, Benelux, and the Nordic countries were all fascist from 1945 until the mid 70s.
Not really sure that is a great place to end up as it dispenses with nuance and is both misleading and by accepted political/economic terminology incorrect.
Plus is sort of ignores the whole political element to fascism was sort of is more important than its economic/administrative parts which were largely a grab-bag of whatever was in vogue at the time.
 
Wanting a government that does nothing to help those who need it is also in fact an act of rent seeking. It's not like those people who want government to do nothing don't have rent seeking as their motive.
 
We are the ones who most focus on eliminating government granted privileges in order to allow the free market to best serve the poor.

Rather than eliminate injustice, it seeks to mitigate the harm caused by the parasites just enough to keep the host able to support them.
Is that how you describe "to best serve the poor"? By leaving them at the mercy of the free market when they are already victims of it? By claiming that those who actually are trying to fight injustice are coddling "parasites"?

The New Deal was more Fascist than anything. Mussolini was a big fan of Roosevelt, and was quite surprised that the US under him chose to be his enemy rather than ally.
Or you can just ignore that what you describe as "fascism" were actually temporary bipartisan measures to try to help feed people and give them jobs during the Great Depression. Measures which were dropped immediately afterwards. :crazyeye:

The only times I've seen the New Deal called 'fascist' before was by Mises and Cato style nutjobs -the sort who think everything from police, to courts, to pharmaceutical safety inspections should be privatized.
Did they mention having the free market to supposedly "best serve the poor"?
 
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