Optimal late game tech path for SV

[IBYCFOTA]

Currently playing a standard continents game on Emperor with Korea and am trying to figure out the best order to research the final techs to build the spaceship.

This particular game has been very peaceful for myself. Of the 6 Civs remaining, 4 have DOF's with me and the other 2 are Friendly. I have RA's with the 4 DOF Civs. I'm fairly confident that I can turtle my way to a peaceful SV at this rate - the only question is how to go about doing it the quickest.

The screenshot below is the path I plan on taking in the tech tree to lead me to victory. Some quick thoughts on my reasoning:

- Atomic Theory so I can get a little extra science output from my academies (because of Korea's +2 beaker for GP tile improvements I planted 4-5 of them already.. bulbing them now though). Also need Uranium of course.

- Next I want to go to Penicillin for the Medical Lab. More growth is good.

- From there I hit Nuclear Fission for the Nuclear Plants so I can boost production significantly in all of my cities, and then Rocketry for the Apollo.

- Next up I go to Robotics for the Spaceship factories, and then I hit up Advanced Ballistics so I can start on the 3 SS Booster's that I need.

- Satellites after that so I can GE rush the Hubble Space Telescope and build the Cockpit.

- Bulb the 2 GS's to blast me into Particle Physics as quick as possible, and then finish Nanotechnology for the last Spaceship part.

I think this is a sound strategy and a pretty efficient way to finish the tech tree but I'd like to hear some opinions from more experienced players, especially those who manage to win by t250-275 (currently on T248 and as you can see I'm a ways away still).

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

I don't know what the super-pros do, but there's never been a game where I haven't tried to go straight from Rocketry to Satellites, burning a GS if I have to. I want to lock up Hubble -- it's so far down your queue (13th) that it seems like there's a chance an AI might get to it.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I just won my first Deity game with Shoshones and a SV. I went strait to Satellites after Plastics, saved enough Faith to buy a Great Engineer and popped Hubble in 1 turn. Those 2 free Great Scientists really help, and a free Spaceship Factory shouldn't be overlooked either when Aluminium is scarce.

Now, on Emperor and with Korea, you might be able to keep enough of a lead not to care, but if AIs are not too far behind, i would suggest going for Satellites faster. If they are peaceful, they might be planning a Science Victory and grab Hubble before you as TheGrumpyBuddha said. AIs do play for the win in CiV. Well they play rather badly but they will try to win if you allow them

 

[erajah]

My go-to path is usually Atomic Theory (+8/10 beakers, and it unlocks the next age), beeline to Satellites for Hubble and to pop the Info age. Then either Robotics or Advanced Ballistics depending whether or not I still have free techs left (Oxford for or Rationalism Finish). If you do have a free tech, best to pop it on Nanotechnology, so you may need to time things. Then obviously beeline to Particle Physics to finish up. It doesn't really matter too much to be honest, you should be very close to finishing the game once you hit Satellites.

Hard to say with just that screenshot and the fact you have 4 RA's running, but I suspect you're about 50-60 turns away from victory. Plan assuming you're going to win on turn 300. Even if you change your Tech Order, I don't suspect it'll change your final outcome by more than 2 or 3 turns. What saves you the turns now, is making sure you can buy your final spaceship part, and that you still have a few GS's coming up.

 

[pkf]

usual path is Plastics -> Rocketry -> Satellites -> Advanced Ballistics -> Robotics. rest depends on policy timing, RAs and the availability of Oxford.

reasoning: you want Apollo fast (you can't rush it after all). you then want Hubble in one of your cities asap (the + production is great, and you need the 2 GS). can be delayed for another natural GS pop, but not too long. Next you need to build parts while hopefully breezing through the rest of the tree, hence get the SS Boosters done first. Robotics and the rest should be obvious.

things to look out for: while bulbing, consider occasionally investing a few turns into upper tree to avoid getting blocked by the sheer amount of techs when having overflow.
depending on production available outside the cap, getting Nano with Oxford right away is advised - if you get the ratio finisher timing right.

 

[Calouste]

I don't know what the super-pros do, but there's never been a game where I haven't tried to go straight from Rocketry to Satellites, burning a GS if I have to. I want to lock up Hubble -- it's so far down your queue (13th) that it seems like there's a chance an AI might get to it.

Beelining Satellites (or any Information Age tech) has the disadvantage in BNW that it opens up the Diplomatic victory. Well, it might or might not be a disadvantage, but it's definitely something you have to keep an eye on, specially if you have folks like Greece and Venice in the game. If you hold off entering the Information Age, you might be able to blast through the last few techs before the World Leader vote comes up.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Beelining Satellites (or any Information Age tech) has the disadvantage in BNW that it opens up the Diplomatic victory. Well, it might or might not be a disadvantage, but it's definitely something you have to keep an eye on, specially if you have folks like Greece and Venice in the game. If you hold off entering the Information Age, you might be able to blast through the last few techs before the World Leader vote comes up.

Very good point. I've only started playing on Deity but it's an issue -- Greece got a turn 260'ish win in one game, maybe in part because I ran to Satellites. On Immortal, it's usually less of an issue.

(Still can't stand Greece, though ...)

 

[IBYCFOTA]

usual path is Plastics -> Rocketry -> Satellites -> Advanced Ballistics -> Robotics. rest depends on policy timing, RAs and the availability of Oxford.

reasoning: you want Apollo fast (you can't rush it after all). you then want Hubble in one of your cities asap (the + production is great, and you need the 2 GS). can be delayed for another natural GS pop, but not too long. Next you need to build parts while hopefully breezing through the rest of the tree, hence get the SS Boosters done first. Robotics and the rest should be obvious.

things to look out for: while bulbing, consider occasionally investing a few turns into upper tree to avoid getting blocked by the sheer amount of techs when having overflow.
depending on production available outside the cap, getting Nano with Oxford right away is advised - if you get the ratio finisher timing right.

Shouldn't Robotics be more of a priority, at least over Advanced Ballistics? Spaceship factories double production on spaceship parts after all, and that would be useful to have in at least a couple of your cities before you build the SS Boosters. That was my logic anyway.

 

[IBYCFOTA]

My go-to path is usually Atomic Theory (+8/10 beakers, and it unlocks the next age), beeline to Satellites for Hubble and to pop the Info age. Then either Robotics or Advanced Ballistics depending whether or not I still have free techs left (Oxford for or Rationalism Finish). If you do have a free tech, best to pop it on Nanotechnology, so you may need to time things. Then obviously beeline to Particle Physics to finish up. It doesn't really matter too much to be honest, you should be very close to finishing the game once you hit Satellites.

Hard to say with just that screenshot and the fact you have 4 RA's running, but I suspect you're about 50-60 turns away from victory. Plan assuming you're going to win on turn 300. Even if you change your Tech Order, I don't suspect it'll change your final outcome by more than 2 or 3 turns. What saves you the turns now, is making sure you can buy your final spaceship part, and that you still have a few GS's coming up.

Do people recommend holding off on Oxford until the end of the game? I timed the free tech so I could grab Scientific Theory and thought all was well.

Your prediction was mostly correct, I ended up winning on Turn 296. The RA's came in handy as did all of the GS's I produced. A couple came from specialist slots, one or two were purchased with faith, and of course I got 2 from the hubble. Everything worked out pretty well timing wise and I didn't have any lulls while building parts. So far it's the fastest SV I've been able to achieve and I'm sure I could knock off a good 10-15 turns if I shore up my early game play. I didn't get the NC built until T110 ish and my BPT was somewhat low at that point.

 

[Tabarnak]

Do people recommend holding off on Oxford until the end of the game? I timed the free tech so I could grab Scientific Theory and thought all was well.

It's really situationnal. When you have the gold to rush buy all science buildings from your next science tech to get and have to wait several turns before getting it, you should counsider building Oxford to accelerate the tech rate.

In the deity challenge #30 i built Oxford for Sci. Theory because i had to wait 7 turns before getting this tech while i already had the 4x920 needed to rush buy every Public Schools.

Technically, you can build it for Astronomy too if you are isolated, though it can be difficult to build it in time if you settle more than 2 cities. AIs are so important in that tech race that Oxford can speed up things even if it doesn't directly give you beakers(excepted for Observatories).

 

[Buccaneer]

I have been trending to wait and build Oxford (usually in 3-4 turns) to get into the Modern Era, usually Radio. Other times, it has been for Archaeology.

 

[iggymnrr]

Assuming a mess of scientists and RAs triggering with Oxford available, launch shortly after railroads. Tech path Research Labs->Railroad->bulb-dee-dee-bulb-bulb-RAs->launch ship.

 

[Tabarnak]

I have been trending to wait and build Oxford (usually in 3-4 turns) to get into the Modern Era, usually Radio.

Good point about Radio. Opening the UN early can be very valuable for any peaceful victories.

 

[Calouste]

Good point about Radio. Opening the UN early can be very valuable for any peaceful victories.

Getting into Modern via Radio is for opening up Ideology, not for the UN. But you know that

 

[Deau]

I don't know what the super-pros do, but there's never been a game where I haven't tried to go straight from Rocketry to Satellites, burning a GS if I have to. I want to lock up Hubble -- it's so far down your queue (13th) that it seems like there's a chance an AI might get to it.

It depends on how comfortable a tech lead you have and how your GS GPP are accumulating. It also depends on "when" you plan to try to work 8 turns worth of "science" whilst shifting as many citizens to specialists in each city for the same 8 turns (Even to the point of starving food without starving pop).

Usually on super strong tech lead games, I have so many GSs piled up and enough faith to buy 2-3 more to the point where I can't spend 8 turns after hubble is built to ramp up for mass GS bulbs. In this scenario, I will almost always take atomic theory before going for satellites and basically bulb all my piled up GSs after all my cities worked science and specialists for 8 turns. From there, city 2 builds apolo.

But if, say, you have few GSs piled up currently and have 2 cities that are about 150-250 points from poping a GS, you may want to delay satellites even more just so that you finish building it the next turn after the 2nd city pops a GS from points. Hubble increase the cost of GE/GS/GM by 200 for the 2 spawned GSs so if you don't delay and rush in this scenario, you basically lose 2 GSs or at least risk losing them if you manage to finish earlier than they both can be poped.

It's fairly extreme though. Safety dictates to beeline satellites with only a detour to atomic theory if you have a huge science lead.

Minmaxing dictates that you should go ecology or nuclear fission first to rush-buy additional production for the extremely marginal gain when your cities "work" science for 8 turns pre bulb spam.


Long story short. There is a lot that can change the numbers but very little that will really impact your turn-to-victory. Realistically, only the GS timing thing right before building hubble matters. Shifting as many scientists as possible for 8 turns right before mass bulb is a given. Even more so as Korea which basically double dips in this effect.

 

[Deau]

Good point about Radio. Opening the UN early can be very valuable for any peaceful victories.

Getting into Modern via Radio is for opening up Ideology, not for the UN. But you know that

My thought exactly -_-. However, Oxford bulb to radio saves you what...4-5 turn to ideology? Don't get me wrong, I think of it a lot although usually I can safely hard tech it and still get first ideology pick so I only consider oxford if it will allow me to open before my next culture based SP as then I can take the +25% science from factories significantly earlier.

If not, I will typically pre build it for the last tech or to bulb research labs. Even at 1850 BPT in a recent 5 city Inca play, with 5+2(hubble) late game GSs, I was still about 1 tech shy of wiping the tree without having to wait at all for the last tech. Had I saved oxford for this, it would've been "optimal" for my game.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

It also depends on "when" you plan to try to work 8 turns worth of "science" whilst shifting as many citizens to specialists in each city for the same 8 turns (Even to the point of starving food without starving pop).

...

Hubble increase the cost of GE/GS/GM by 200 for the 2 spawned GSs so if you don't delay and rush in this scenario, you basically lose 2 GSs or at least risk losing them if you manage to finish earlier than they both can be popped.

I never knew exactly how that mechanic worked -- awesome! So bulb-pops for scientists (and writers?) are the sum of science/culture over the last eight turns?

Also, good point about the 200-point increase in GS cost. I forgot about that (though I recognized it in the last game I played).

 

[Deau]

I never knew exactly how that mechanic worked -- awesome! So bulb-pops for scientists (and writers?) are the sum of science/culture over the last eight turns?

Also, good point about the 200-point increase in GS cost. I forgot about that (though I recognized it in the last game I played).

Yes for the 8 turns mechanics

The GPP and wonder building management is particularly useful to know when you hit Pisa/Porcelain Tower since then these GSs are settled.

Bulding PT one turn before a GS spawn is basically like loosing a GS tile for 10 turns or so. Same with Pisa. In a non-observatory capital with the right side of rationalism filled for calculation simplicity, this is 160 early game beakers.

It also applies to the less frequent case of hard building culture wonders that provide a GAMW. If you are about to pop a GAMW of the same type and can delay the build by 2-5 turns without missing the wonder, doing so essentially saves you 100 GPP each time.


This also extends to liberty finisher, the free writer in aesthetics and almost every other similar effects which you can control. If I recall, only faith based GPs don't compound each others' price.

 

[Tabarnak]

Getting into Modern via Radio is for opening up Ideology, not for the UN. But you know that

Oops i miswrote mixing Hubble with my thoughts

 

[Goldstar]

I've never found robotics particularly useful in pursuing a science victory, because I'm often bottle-necked by tech pace rather than by production. Sure with the spaceship factory you build parts faster, but that means absolutely nothing when you don't have the techs to build the parts.

Because of this I usually go: oxford into satellites -> GE rush Hubble -> advanced ballistics -> particle physics -> nanotech. While researching, I just build the parts whenever the techs come up.