Optimal teching?

[Cookie Crumbs]

Which is a better way to tech on Prince/Monarch? Conquer more land through war or aggressively trading techs? Each time I've done Axe rush>Cavalry rush I can't get space race victories earlier than 1900. Is there a sweet spot for conquering land for optimal teching?

 

[HectorSpector]

Sounds like you're playing on a level that's actually suitable for your skill level.

Always find it daft listening to people go on about how they always win every game on noble, and get space race or domination so early. What's the point in playing a game so easy?

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

Well Prince is getting a little too easy for me now, as long as I overcome the early difficulties of having less happiness. But I was just looking for a way to improve my time on space race victories on my current level.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Sounds like you're playing on a level that's actually suitable for your skill level.

Always find it daft listening to people go on about how they always win every game on noble, and get space race or domination so early. What's the point in playing a game so easy?

I usually up my level when I get consistent early wins. I win Monarch pretty easily now but haven't stepped up to Emporer as I usually find the higher levels take too much 'thinking' to be fun. Was that way in Civ III anyway.
But there is still fun to be found by going for the fastest possible win.

 

[Shillen]

Which is a better way to tech on Prince/Monarch? Conquer more land through war or aggressively trading techs? Each time I've done Axe rush>Cavalry rush I can't get space race victories earlier than 1900. Is there a sweet spot for conquering land for optimal teching?

Well, you shouldn't get anywhere near the domination limit if you're going for an earlier space race win. Basically if you settle aggressively and take over one of your nearby neighbors lands early then that's about as much land as you want for an early space/diplo victory. Any more than that and it isn't really speeding up your win. Don't forget to focus on cottages, not production. The earlier you start working the cottages the quicker they will be towns and the quicker you will win the game. This usually requires micromanaging your town's citizens as the governor really likes production and specialists over cottages. Selling your techs to the AI's for their excess gold is very helpful to keep your slider up as well (even selling an 8000 beaker tech for 300 gold and stuff like that) but only once you clearly have the tech lead and aren't going to lose it for the rest of the game.

 

[manwiththehands]

I usually up my level when I get consistent early wins ...

Guess I'll be playing at warlord level for a long, long time.

 

[Alo]

....I can't get space race victories earlier than 1900....

same problem, just started playing civ4 and i played my first three games on noble....won spacerace victories in all but the fastest spaceship i could manage was around the 1930s ...that is pathetic compared to what i could manage in civ3 on monarch.

so what would be considered a decent date for finishing the spaceship on noble/prince in civ4 assuming a completely peaceful game(or atleast no wars initiated by me).....i like my scientific victories to be purely scientific

 

[Murky]

I've recently come upon this same dilemma in a single player game I started with Elizabeth. I managed to get the Pyramids early enough for a hybrid Cottage/SE economy with Representation & Caste system. I have taken out one neighbor already. I have sufficient technology and units to take over the others civilizations but I'm not sure if that will speed up or slow my space race victory goal. The cities are developed enough that each capture will contribute more to research than it will cost in maintenance. The downside is that I lose a tech-trading partner with each rival that I wipe out. It may be more optimal to leave them be and just trade techs instead. The plus side to warmongering is that each rival I take over is one less threat and it increases my score.

 

[futurehermit]

Imo there are two ways you can get a space race victory:

1) Plan for it. If you do this, you should do as Shillen said. Basically, take out your most aggressive neighbour while cottage spamming then go ftw with tech-trading and cranking out science/commerce infrastructure.

2) Fall back on it. I get this a lot. I go for domination win, but then something happens, often on the other continent, that screws me up. Like I was playing as Korea awhile back and invaded the other continent. It had Shaka and Alex who were both very strong and someone else, I think Ragnar, who was weak. I invaded Alex. If I took enough of his land I would win domination. Shaka dogpiled on Alex. Even though Alex was still fairly strong, he capitulated to Shaka! This really, really screwed me up because Shaka and Alex were too strong for me to take out together (Shaka had meanwhile finished Ragnar). However, I had a sizeable tech lead and had fortunately been building space parts as a fall back option so I won space race. Granted it was after 1900, so to get earlier you would probably want to go with option1.

 

[Murky]

I tend to fall back on diplomacy more often than space race. Space race is something that really should be planned from the start.

 

[LosBlack]

Space race is something that really should be planned from the start.

when you say "from the start" are we talking 4000BC, or as soon as you start thinking about victory conditions?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Which is a better way to tech on Prince/Monarch? Conquer more land through war or aggressively trading techs? Each time I've done Axe rush>Cavalry rush I can't get space race victories earlier than 1900. Is there a sweet spot for conquering land for optimal teching?

Probably.

I'd suggest reporting four dates: the discovery of Rocketry, the completion of the Apollo program, the date of your last tech, and the completion of your last part.

These dates will help observers identify how much of the problem is research rate, and how much is production related.


Another experiment that I found interesting is to see how deep into the game you can keep up running only a single city (not 1CC, but a regular game where you don't build settlers). It may give you a better sense for what maintenance cost is really doing to you.

Remember, the space race end game doesn't require many cities. A fistful of cottage cities to contribute your casings, and one or two production monsters to do the heavy lifting.

 

[Mutineer]

Probably pointless post, but I just realised that I never won a space victory all my time playing Civ4. May be I should try that.

 

[Murky]

Probably pointless post, but I just realised that I never won a space victory all my time playing Civ4. May be I should try that.

It rewards you with a little spaceship movie at the end.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Now I totally want a space victory. I haven't seen that movie either.

 

[cabert]

Probably pointless post, but I just realised that I never won a space victory all my time playing Civ4. May be I should try that.

After 9 months of cIV I only had one space victory.
It was my first cIV game on chieftain (or was it warlord?) level.

Then I played "P666-02 fix another trash game" and gave it some real thoughts.
It was not really the same old game I usually play (going cultural or domination mainly, with the odd diplomacy victory now and then).
Give it a try, you'll like it (although the end game is a bit dull).

What I learned from this game:
- space race is about teching and building
- state property makes late game building really easy
- you don't need more than 3 high production cities, if you have enough hybrid cities.
- casings can really be slow built. No point having 5 casings while you cannot even start building the engine.
- with a little MM, you can shave off 10+ turns of the late game building. How?
1) overflow. This is VERY significant if you cash rush things just before starting you space part.
2) starvation. You don't need to have sustainable population. You need the hammers.
3) chopping. You can $rush factories, but cannot $rush parts. So conquering a good production site with forests, you can keep those wooden hammers for this late rush. You think it's not worth it? count again! In the Iron Works city, each chopping gives some 100 hammers
4) Statue of liberty can give you a free engineers. Don't forget to $ rush those factories and powerplants. Don't want to build it? what are you building in your IW city? casings?
5) settling prophets and engineers is a long term winning move. Space ship is long term.
6) internet. Believe it or not, you can "trade" until the end of the game. In fact, if you beeline to fiber optics, it's really easy to get all necessary techs.

 

[Murky]

The end game can be interesting if you are trying to optimize research, part production and maintain good diplomatic relations all at the same time. You run into a lot of decisions. Should I build the space elevator? Do I need labs or just go straight into part production instead? Build power plants or build the Three Gorges Dam? What is the optimal way to research the end-game techs?

 

[cabert]

The end game can be interesting if you are trying to optimize research, part production and maintain good diplomatic relations all at the same time. You run into a lot of decisions. Should I build the space elevator? Do I need labs or just go straight into part production instead? Build power plants or build the Three Gorges Dam? What is the optimal way to research the end-game techs?

labs can be $rushed, factories can be $rushed, powerplants can be $rushed.
And labs give beakers.
Isn't it a no brainer to go for computers before rocketry? I bet my shirt that (with the exception of low land tile maps like archipelago or islands) you get in almost every situation better results by going to computer first.

 

[Murky]

labs can be $rushed, factories can be $rushed, powerplants can be $rushed.
And labs give beakers.
Isn't it a no brainer to go for computers before rocketry? I bet my shirt that (with the exception of low land tile maps like archipelago or islands) you get in almost every situation better results by going to computer first.

Do you just build the labs in the production cities or both science/production?

 

[cabert]

Do you just build the labs in the production cities or both science/production?

I'm by no means a space expert.
I build labs in
- high commerce cities for beakers. high commerce cities under US are usually valid casing producers.
- hybrid cities. hybrid cities under US are usually valid thruster producers.
- high production cities, after factories and power, before space parts.

that's about everywhere

US suffrage and loads of cottages are really the best you can have : buying a lab in every high commerce city in just a few turns is