Optimal teching?

[Cookie Crumbs]

After a few games and planning I've managed to get 1832 on Prince. My frist proper attempt was 1857 with Wang Kon, where I didn't conquer any of my opponents; I tried again with Mali and Terra, using the New World for expansion. However, it doesn't work as well as simply going for Cavalry early and conquering one of your neighbours.

I find Spiritual to be quite helpful, because it allows me to switch so Serfdom and get improvements down quicker (when I don't need to whip), and switching to Beauracracy at the end, having built the palace in my ironworks city and allowing me crank out the last space part a few turns quicker.

I may try again with good tech traders in my game (like another Mansa Musa), which in theory should allow me to get techs quicker. Also, a Golden Age is an absolute MUST for fast space race. It is also wise to save a Great Engineer for the Space Elevator, which combined with the GE from Fusion you can get SE and used the saved turns to build parts. However, you need at least one other good production city.

Generally, I take Democracy from Liberalism, then head towards Communism (via Astronomy), then head all the way to Computers. Then a beeline to Plastics, then Fission>Robotics>Rocketry>Satellites>Fibre Optics>Fusion, and then pick up the Genetics & Ecology lines. Apollo gets finished about 1890, then I set all the cottage-spam cities to Casings (US gives nice production ) and my best cities to the bigger parts. Now the SE requires Satellites too I need to research that before Fusion, and also makes sure my best cities can work on Thrusters ASAP.

Maintenance wasn't really an issue: in the 1832 game I had a vassal and a shrine+Wall Street so I had excess gold from 1700 onwards, which helped rushing LAboratories without dropping tech spending. In general I would recommend only rushing Factories/Plants/Labs in cities building parts; do not bother rushing buildings in other cities unless you have excess gold. Set all the other cities to build research (which is where the bulk of the research from new cities comes from).

 

[curtadams]

You don't need to plan for space race. If you have a large empire and are competitive in tech you have a good shot at a space victory. Large empires and high tech are natural outcomes of almost any strategic goal - domination, score, diplomacy, or just playing for fun. Only a cultural victory is incompatible with a space race win, and it's the cultural win which is the odd man out.

 

[Technocactus]

So long as you haven't completely shunned prerequisites, you can almsot always go for Space Race, provided you have a decent bit of land. Cultural is the only one you need to plan for from the start.

 

[Andrei_V]

3) chopping. You can $rush factories, but cannot $rush parts.

Actually, you can chop rush anything, including Apollo and parts.

It makes a perfect sense not to rush factories, but build them normally in advance. You have plenty of time for this. Connect Aluminum, build labs and Space Elevator (a couple of Engineers would do), get all bonuses you can get, then start chopping remaining trees for parts.

The chops are not only credited normally toward parts, but receive all those huge bonuses Forge + Factory + Coal Plant + Lab + Aluminum/Copper + Space Elevator.

I'd typically save a few forests around each city for health and lumbermills, but when it's time to rush the last 3 parts, I'd replace them with mines/workshops using stacks of workers.

 

[cabert]

Actually, you can chop rush anything, including Apollo and parts.

It makes a perfect sense not to rush factories, but build them normally in advance. You have plenty of time for this. Connect Aluminum, build labs and Space Elevator (a couple of Engineers would do), get all bonuses you can get, then start chopping remaining trees for parts.

The chops are not only credited normally toward parts, but receive all those huge bonuses Forge + Factory + Coal Plant + Lab + Aluminum/Copper + Space Elevator.

I'd typically save a few forests around each city for health and lumbermills, but when it's time to rush the last 3 parts, I'd replace them with mines/workshops using stacks of workers.

exactly.
Doing this I could finish 3 turns earlier.

 

[Andrei_V]

As for the general strategy, prioritize science always. Scientific techs first, then anything else, military, economy, etc.

Pottery -> Writing -> Civil Service -> Education -> Astronomy

Backfill as much as possible of what you missed by tech trading.

Balance your research with production. If your cities have nothing useful to produce toward the final goal, consider changing the tech path.

If you start with pure or almost pure SE, consider switching quickly to CE by the time to get Democracy/Emancipation. The SE gives you a quick start, but then slows down significantly as the cost of every new GP increases.

If you don't have spots for like 4 or 5 well-cottaged cities, consider an early war. I'd detour for Machinery after CS before Education for that. A war can also help you to get 6 good cities (on Normal Size maps) to build Universities quickly for Oxford.

Once you get Education, build them Universities as fast as you can. Build them everywhere including your Heroic Epic city if you have one. The point is not to boost science in those cities, but to get Oxford quick. Build it in your best commercial city. Hopefully it's your capital, since you can enjoy combined Bureaucracy + Forge + Org Religion bonus, if you can connect to Stone, even better.

 

[cabert]

About planning for space, a few thoughts:
- in continents, you may notice that the peaceful continent techs faster. So an early war isn't an absolute best move here
- friends may trade techs to you all game long. No point in being pleased. But friendly is good. So having a common enemy may be a good move after "WFYBTA" effect settles in.
- You need large and productive cities in the end. Take them from non friendly AIs.

 

[Andrei_V]

I usually go for Rocketry to start Apollo, then Industrialism for Aluminum, then Computers. But this is situation dependent. If you have a super-duper Ironworks city enough to build Apollo in 8 turns, then maybe it makes sense to go for Computers first. Balance your research with production again.

 

[cabert]

I repeat I'm not a space expert.

BUT

In the games I played, it was that last tech that made a difference.
I had a few turns of building health buildings in IW city because I had no spacepart to build!
What good is it to have the apollo earlier in this situation?

 

[Andrei_V]

The best leader for space race is no doubt Elizabeth. Once you get Oxford, assign as much scientists as you can (leave food and cottage tiles only, the rest of the pop works as scientists), and generate SS for the Academies in your cottage cities. Enjoy Philosophical for faster SS and cheap Universities with Financial cottage spamming.

 

[Andrei_V]

In the games I played, it was that last tech that made a difference.
I had a few turns of building health buildings in IW city because I had no spacepart to build!
What good is it to have the apollo earlier in this situation?

Like I said, DO prioritize Computers if your production is a way ahead of science.

But that usually means you did something wrong in the past, and you could've done better.

 

[cabert]

Like I said, DO prioritize Computers if your production is a way ahead of science.

But that usually means you did something wrong in the past, and you could've done better.

really?
Or does it mean that I use and abuse state property for high production cities?

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

The best leader for space race is no doubt Elizabeth

I think Peter could make an argument as well. Same philo trait and his ub is basically designed for space race.

 

[Andrei_V]

I think Peter could make an argument as well. Same philo trait and his ub is basically designed for space race.

I'm afraid, not. The UB comes a little bit too late, and it won't make any huge difference.

If you are not Financial, you'd spend a lot more turns before Computers, just to get close to them. It's like you win 5 turns after Computers, but lose 25 before.

 

[Andrei_V]

really?
Or does it mean that I use and abuse state property for high production cities?

I usually switch to Environmentalism after Free Market, and skip Communism altogether as irrelevant to Space Race. It saves me a good deal on building Aqueducts/Grocers etc.

Typically I have not more than 1 or 2 big production cities, the rest are cottaged. If you have a special food resource, you can build cottages on hills 1F1H, you know.

 

[cabert]

I usually switch to Environmentalism after Free Market, and skip Communism altogether as irrelevant to Space Race. It saves me a good deal on building Aqueducts/Grocers etc.

Typically I have not more than 1 or 2 big production cities, the rest are cottaged. If you have a special food resource, you can build cottages on hills 1F1H, you know.

I'd rather have +1 food than +1health:
here is my favourite picture. It's not optimal, but check the hammers (no overflow!)

 

[Murky]

As for the general strategy, prioritize science always. Scientific techs first, then anything else, military, economy, etc.

Pottery -> Writing -> Civil Service -> Education -> Astronomy

Backfill as much as possible of what you missed by tech trading.

Balance your research with production. If your cities have nothing useful to produce toward the final goal, consider changing the tech path.

If you start with pure or almost pure SE, consider switching quickly to CE by the time to get Democracy/Emancipation. The SE gives you a quick start, but then slows down significantly as the cost of every new GP increases.

If you don't have spots for like 4 or 5 well-cottaged cities, consider an early war. I'd detour for Machinery after CS before Education for that. A war can also help you to get 6 good cities (on Normal Size maps) to build Universities quickly for Oxford.

Once you get Education, build them Universities as fast as you can. Build them everywhere including your Heroic Epic city if you have one. The point is not to boost science in those cities, but to get Oxford quick. Build it in your best commercial city. Hopefully it's your capital, since you can enjoy combined Bureaucracy + Forge + Org Religion bonus, if you can connect to Stone, even better.

Is it better to go with the classic Oracle slingshot or build the Pyramids for a stronger early game SE? I'm referring to Vanilla 1.61.

 

[Andrei_V]

Is it better to go with the classic Oracle slingshot or build the Pyramids for a stronger early game SE? I'm referring to Vanilla 1.61.

I think Pyramids are optional. They help, of course, and a lot, but only if you can get them for a low price, like generating a GE from the Forge. Otherwise, I'd suggest REXing and cottage spamming rather than Pyramids.

Oracle Slingshot is good (though not exceptional), because you can get Bureaucracy some 20 turns earlier. Then go Alphabet->Literature and build the GL with bureaucracy + Org Religion, and, maybe, Forge, if you can get MC by that time.

Civ version (Warlords vs. Vanilla) are not so different as far as the Space Race is concerned. Just be sure to build some army in Warlords, otherwise they'll attack you, regardless of diplomacy. Like when discover Rifling as Liz, make sure to build a few Redcoats.

 

[Andrei_V]

I'd rather have +1 food than +1health:

Oh, I know very well what the State Property means. The only problem - It does not bring you to the launch any closer.

If you need Computers before Apollo, you have ALREADY wasted some 20 or 30 turns on something you don't really need.

What I do in a similar situation - when it comes to building something crucial, I bring an army of workers and build workshops, starving the city for a while. When this thing is complete, I replace them by farms again, and let the city refill its food storage.

No need for State Property, Communism, Fascism, and plenty of other things whatsoever.

The problem with health is not a problem of your Production cities, since they can build all those Aqueducts, Grocers, Hospitals etc quick.

The real problem with your slow-production commerce/science centers, especially the Oxford city. It's a city which you want to grow big to work many cottages and specialists at the same time, which means you don't work any mines, and health problem is a huge one.

 

[Alraun]

Always find it daft listening to people go on about how they always win every game on noble, and get space race or domination so early. What's the point in playing a game so easy?

Lots of people play lower difficulty levels for comparison/competitive things like the Game of the Month or Hall of Fame/Quattromasters. I know I personally wouldn't play these lower levels without these reasons.