Options to Rush-Buy 3.1

[Kev]

I took a look around our cities and a look at the treasury as well. With a healthy 850+ in gold, I thought I should put the option out there to rush buy some items in cities.

I did NOT include any cities that either

A) Building a wonder
B) Were building from "scratch" (i.e. no shields in the box yet).

I also did everything by incremental rush buying (buying a cheaper unit, finish it, go to next cheapest until you get to the desired item).

The poll will include some choices along with the costs to incremental rush. However, we may wish to do more than one of these, so in the discussions please let me know if you wish there to be a 3.2 poll which will include all of the same options (other than the one that was voted on here - if any).

 

[Mr Spice]

IMHO we should save our money for now. We may have to rush some wonder later, for example.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Mr Spice
IMHO we should save our money for now. We may have to rush some wonder later, for example.

Keep in mind that it's very expensive to rush wonders at just about any time (unless they are very close to finished). You really pay a premium for it.

If we wish to rush a wonder, the better option is usually to rush food caravans. One can rush them incrementally to save money, and they build wonders shield-for-shield.

If you are concerned about wonder building and the gold, you may wish to vote for one of the caravan options as they will undoubtedly be used for this purpose. It makes sense to rush one or two now, for at the last minute we may not be able to rush enough at once to make a difference.

 

[Dell19]

I think its best to save our gold for more desperate times if we need to rush build units to attack...Maybe the Pikeman in Dellsville would be quite useful to rush build but I cannot remember whether it already has a pikeman or not...

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Dell19
I think its best to save our gold for more desperate times if we need to rush build units to attack...Maybe the Pikeman in Dellsville would be quite useful to rush build but I cannot remember whether it already has a pikeman or not...

I wish that I could do screen shots properly.

Here's the gig: On the Island with Dellville, there is a settler and pikeman to the extreme southeast - about 4 or 5 squares away. I am assuming that this was to be the group to settle the city, but the settler clearing the swamp finished and built the city in the mean time. Hence, these two units were dumped on the island (likely to make room for our ill-fated crusaders who attacked the Romans).

I need to post a poll on what to do with this group as we may decide to settle another city or to put the pike in Dellville and use the settler to improve the land. I also need to experiment a bit and see if I can do the screen shots correctly. My other attempts have not worked.

In essence, Dellville has no defender at the moment.

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by Kev

Keep in mind that it's very expensive to rush wonders at just about any time (unless they are very close to finished). /.../ If we wish to rush a wonder, the better option is usually to rush food caravans.

I agree that caravans are a better choice. But if (big if) we should happen to get into a situation where we have to buy some wonder or loose it, we could use a large treasury. Dell also has a good point.

In short, I think we should be careful not to waste our money.

 

[Civanator]

we should save our money incase of some emergancy, like war.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Mr Spice


I agree that caravans are a better choice. But if (big if) we should happen to get into a situation where we have to buy some wonder or loose it, we could use a large treasury.

In short, I think we should be careful not to waste our money.

But don't you see, spending 56 or however many gold to complete a caravan now could actually save us money should a wonder rush hit us. That is a travelling 50 shields that we've created, and those 50 would cost a fair amount more if we have to purchase those shields as a wonder-completing package. It is much more expensive to buy wonder shields than caravan shields.

The only way we lose out is:

1. The caravan cannot get TO the intended city in time to add its shields before another civ completes it (therefore sooner can be better than later).
2. By spending money on caravans we are unable to meet a specific military threat to the nation by being unable to rush build units (do we need 850 gold for this?)
Edit: 3rd way: We would win every wonder race we wish without any rush building. Seems unlikely.

Consider this: We could very well get the message that the Chinese (for example) have nearly finished Leo's Workshop. We might find that it would take 800 gold to finish it in the city with the most shields but we only have 600. If we then went back about 3 turns or so, we may realize that to build the needed 5 caravans, it would have cost us 500 gold with incremental rushing from cities building caravans or those that could switch from units. Indeed, a 300 gold difference could be the case - perhaps even more.

If we rush enough to have 6+ on hand, then we need not fear the last minute wonder buyout.

I think that rushing some caravans could also help us right at the moment. By finishing Cope's ASAP (assuming we get Astronomy ASAP as well), we could force the other civs to abandon their projects and have to start a different wonder from scratch when the techs are discovered. I know we have a fair number of caravans now, but we may be using some of them as actual trade caravans.

With our 850+ gold, we could probably get to 12 food caravans over the next 10 turns - not even taking into account the gold that will still be added via our surplus. This could just about guarantee us the next two wonders without even having to worry. We could get Cope's (when we have Astronomy) and then build Sun Tzu's right away to keep the civs that have feudalism from changing to this one as well. I have to doubt that any other civ has Theology at this point - so they will have to abandon projects and lose shields. Plus, we'll have these wonders sooner, can make use of them earlier and get a jump on the next wonder.

Man, did I just ramble or what? Sorry about that. I'm just not used to playing with such a large surplus so early in the game - I am usually rushing just about anything I can while leaving a few hundred for an emergency. Mostly caravans - both kinds.

By the way, this becomes an even more emphatic point if we decide to keep our Tax/Sci/Lux rate where it is or even increase taxes. In either case we will be earning a very nice surplus indeed.

 

[Apollo]

I'm a bit hesitant to vote on this. There is currently a poll on where to build a trireme and Fort Pornstar seems to be winning this. If it does, then will the trireme take precedence over the caravan, since the fact that we have a number of shields going toward production already in that city is a major reason people are voting for the trireme there? Caravans are the main things I'd consider rushing, but both of the cities currently working on caravans might have their orders overriden by our military, so I think we have conflicting polls here (not to mention the governor's polls for those cities...)

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Apollo
I'm a bit hesitant to vote on this. There is currently a poll on where to build a trireme and Fort Pornstar seems to be winning this. If it does, then will the trireme take precedence over the caravan, since the fact that we have a number of shields going toward production already in that city is a major reason people are voting for the trireme there? Caravans are the main things I'd consider rushing, but both of the cities currently working on caravans might have their orders overriden by our military, so I think we have conflicting polls here (not to mention the governor's polls for those cities...)

I do believe that the talk of a trireme here is slated for after the caravan that is already in production. The rushing of the caravan is geared only toward the same one in production.

 

[Apollo]

Some people said that Fort Pornstar was almost finished with its caravan so it would be a good choice, and I interpreted that to mean that it would be good because production would be switched to a trireme using the shields already generated, thus building it much faster than normal. If that is the case, then rushing the caravan would negate that aspect of Fort Pornstar's appeal as the place to build the trireme.

Since we're trying to take the Roman city as quickly as possible to get Astronomy before we finish our research, I thought the military polls would override any existing build orders.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Apollo
Some people said that Fort Pornstar was almost finished with its caravan so it would be a good choice, and I interpreted that to mean that it would be good because production would be switched to a trireme using the shields already generated, thus building it much faster than normal. If that is the case, then rushing the caravan would negate that aspect of Fort Pornstar's appeal as the place to build the trireme.

Since we're trying to take the Roman city as quickly as possible to get Astronomy before we finish our research, I thought the military polls would override any existing build orders.

Few things on this:

- We already have 2 triremes in the area between our home island and the Roman city - enough to carry and attack force of 4 which is what we're really looking for. We also have an exploring trireme as well, so the trireme in FP will likely be an eastern explorer and transport really - a much needed one by the way.
- I think that we'll discover Astronomy on our own before we can enact any action against the Romans anyway - unless we plunge the science rate to extremely low levels.
- There is a vote in the Fort Pornstar thread looking to build a trireme after the caravan, so I have to think that this is still the main plan.
- Rushing the caravan will still mean we can get to this trireme earlier than normal - which I think is a good thing as well.

 

[Mr Spice]

Originally posted by Kev


But don't you see, spending 56 or however many gold to complete a caravan now could actually save us money should a wonder rush hit us.

Ah, so that is what you meant? Good thinking, Kev! You have convinced me to change my vote from "nothing" to "Fort Pornsta caravan". Unfortunately I can´t do that explicitly (can´t edit the poll), so I simply declare it here...

 

[Ren]

Yes, I agree that we should hang onto our money (What is the income rate?)

 

[Mr Spice]

According to Kev in the Revisiting tax/sci/lux -thread our current income is 25 gold/turn and our current research rate is 12 turns/discovery.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Mr Spice


Ah, so that is what you meant? Good thinking, Kev! You have convinced me to change my vote from "nothing" to "Fort Pornsta caravan". Unfortunately I can´t do that explicitly (can´t edit the poll), so I simply declare it here...

I'll make note of it, but please make sure it's what you really want and you're not just doing it to shut me up and make me stop writing those hideously long posts

Here's my summary:

We are going to have to rush a wonder - probably several. With this in mind, it's much better to rush caravans now - cheaply - than to blow the whole treasury rushing the wonder itself.

 

[Apollo]

What about rushing both caravans, Hippoville as well as Fort Pornstar? We can only vote for one option at a time, so is there going to be another poll for the Hippoville caravan?

 

[Leowind]

If we need a Trireme or Crusader (or diplomat?) for the Roman campaign, then rush whatever is being built in the city that will build the needed unit, then rush that unit after some shields have accumulated. Otherwise, incremental rush the caravans to build up our surplus, keeping IMO a surplus of not less than 500 gold in the treasury. Actually I usually have even less than that in my games.

One question: will you rush to complete, or rush build as far as possible and let the city production complete? The later way doesn't waste production shields (if you rush build something, the turn it is completed the city's normal shield production goes to nothing-in essence are wasted.)

 

[Kev]

Apollo: I did write in the first post here that it is a bit of a weakness in that one could only vote for a single item and that I may have to put up a 3.2 as well. However, there would be no reason for a 3.2 if the first vote came to "don't rush anything". So is my dilemma with this.

I like Leo's idea of having a surplus amount that we should not dip below unless it's an emergency, and ironically enough I had considered the same benchmark - though I, too, usually have even less. I'm a total rusher in my games - usually right from the start with settlers for quicker expansion. Then again, I am usually MUCH more caravan heavy and have routes established wherever I can right from the advent of trade.

I think something like a minimum cash carry can be polled for certain. I can give specific numbers and see what the people think.

To answer your question, Leo, I would certainly think that we'll try to be as efficient as possible when it comes to wonders and the use of caravans. Surely, unless we have the "almost finished" notice, it would be better to allow a city to finish the wonder naturally if it has 25 shields left rather than effectively waste 25 by forcing a 50-shield food caravan on it. It would likely be cheaper, as well, to purchase these last 25 shileds even at the premium.

It will really have to be a game-time decision, and I trust that the president could use his/her discretion in this.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Interresting almost everybody feel's like a treasury of min. 500 is the best but actually almost noboby keep's such a treasury at hand if they play a solo game.Hey me neither ,i'm always rushing when i have lot's of gold..