Oracle guide

[dylanmeditates]

I have been hearing so much about this wonderful wonder they call the oracle and I have some questions... Feel free to answer these questions and procede to discuss anything you please regarding the oracle, relating to emperor+ games. I'm on emperor now, looking to move on up

-What possible techs are you looking to pick up from oracle, what type of surrounding land/diplo/commerce/resources situation will imply going for those techs? What's the plan after you get those techs?
-Is Oracle worth it without marble?
-As I understand it, oracle is a staple for most players, presumably since free tech is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you are one of these players, when do you know not to go for it, and what would you do instead?

 

[Gwynnja]

I only go for it if I have 3 out of these:

1. Gold/gems
2. 3-4 Forests
3. marble
4. industrious

If I'm industrious and don't have 2-3 gems, I'll take metal casting for the cheap forges. If I have 2-3 gems I'll take civil service. Otherwise it depends.

 

[Abegweit]

Assuming Imm/Deity, typical techs are CoL and MC. Construction and Currency can be quite powerful if you can get them in time. The choice really depends on your current objectives more than anything else. CoL for the religion and the courts, MC for Ind forges and the trade bait, Currency for your econ and Const for cats and/or ellies.

Marble does not often enter into the equation as it takes too long to get on line. On some maps you might settle on top of it so that changes things. An abundance of forests is really more important than Marble or Ind.

At Noble, the CS slingshot is generally possible and is definitely recommended. At higher levels, up to and including Imm, sufficient teching power might justify a try at it. Obviously the higher the level, the more research power you need. Since the limiting factor here is more research than production, accelerators like Ind don't really enter the equation.

The Oracle is an early wonder. Therefore the alternatives are also early. They include a rush, GLH and REXing. Maybe the Pyramids.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Marble only enters the equation when you can settle on a hill with it with your capital. Otherwise roading, and building a quarry is a huge waste of turns, plus you only ever want to tech Masonry for the Oracle when you know you can build Math before you finish the Oracle.

But the only difficulty that trying for the Oracle can be a risky play is Deity, as the AI can get it anywhere from 2800 BC to 900 BC. Otherwise with 4 forests, and some worker micro you can 1 turn chop it every game. Because of this I always go for it, and when I miss it it is because the AI got it a couple turns into me going for Poly or Priesthood. But the gain is so large from a large 591+ beaker tech for free at that time that wasting 10 turns of research hardly matter.

But unlike some crazy people who think the Pyramids are a stronger wonder than the Oracle, I would never go for them over the Oracle. As some extra happiness, and like 21 extra beakers per turn for the massive cost of the Pyramids is never better than a nice juicy tech.

 

[Fippy]

Overrated, you get 1 nice tech minus religious bad techs you research (and could trade for later), so you get less than you would think. Maybe 350 beakers.
On deity you also cannot wait for BW or even pre-chopping, unless you gamble even more but that doesn't make this great. There are other ways of setting yourself up for teching.
Only honest guide you can get on Imm or even Deity: cross your fingers, or hurry there fast.

 

[Abegweit]

@ZZZ

Your antipathy to the Pyramids has been noted on this forum many times I don't know whether there are people who believe that they are more powerful than the Oracle. I'm certainly not one. This being said, the Pyramids can certainly is a good choice under some circumstances.

First, the Pyramids are expensive. Because of the expense, it rarely makes sense to go for them w/o stone. They go much later than the Oracle. As such, they can be combined with a REXing strategy. For example, to reach about six cities and then turtle up. Their main advantage, in any case, is not the additional happiness but rather the additional power of specialists. The happiness is certainly useful though.

The Pyramids are definitely superior to the Oracle in one case - for an OCC. If playing an OCC and you fail to get this wonder you might as well start over.

 

[dmd175]

I only go for it if I have 3 out of these:

1. Gold/gems
2. 3-4 Forests
3. marble
4. industrious

If I'm industrious and don't have 2-3 gems, I'll take metal casting for the cheap forges. If I have 2-3 gems I'll take civil service. Otherwise it depends.

good thread. Trying to digest this one...what is the relevance of multiple gems? Why is it gems specifically that helps you decide?


On another post re OCC: is the requirement for pyramids so that so can get the extra +3bpt/specialist while running a one city SE?

 

[ben-jammin]

On immortal or deity if you dont want to gamble on a restart you go straight for it and chop it out, and settle for monarchy, CoL, or metal casting depending on your leader and situation.

 

[Abegweit]

good thread. Trying to digest this one...what is the relevance of multiple gems? Why is it gems specifically that helps you decide?

He wants to go for the CS slingshot so faster teching is required to get there on time. I believe he plays at Emperor or so.

On another post re OCC: is the requirement for pyramids so that so can get the extra +3bpt/specialist while running a one city SE?

Yes. It is especially important to increase the power of settled specialists. You don't generally hire specialists in an OCC because it is important for the city to grow. So the additional happiness is useful too but that's not the main reason.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Overrated, you get 1 nice tech minus religious bad techs you research (and could trade for later), so you get less than you would think. Maybe 350 beakers.
On deity you also cannot wait for BW or even pre-chopping, unless you gamble even more but that doesn't make this great. There are other ways of setting yourself up for teching.
Only honest guide you can get on Imm or even Deity: cross your fingers, or hurry there fast.

So getting Catapults at 1900 BC is over rated? Ooook then , but 350 beakers man you must be taking that ammmmazing tech of Monarchy from the Oracle, and completely wasting building it. The Oracle should always provide you with around 2k beakers for free, unless you don't have a clue how to broker. Now how you're going to build the Oracle ever on any difficulty with out chops is beyond me.

@ZZZ

Your antipathy to the Pyramids has been noted on this forum many times I don't know whether there are people who believe that they are more powerful than the Oracle. I'm certainly not one. This being said, the Pyramids can certainly is a good choice under some circumstances.

First, the Pyramids are expensive. Because of the expense, it rarely makes sense to go for them w/o stone. They go much later than the Oracle. As such, they can be combined with a REXing strategy. For example, to reach about six cities and then turtle up. Their main advantage, in any case, is not the additional happiness but rather the additional power of specialists. The happiness is certainly useful though.

The Pyramids are definitely superior to the Oracle in one case - for an OCC. If playing an OCC and you fail to get this wonder you might as well start over.

Mylene, and a couple others tried to argue to me awhile ago that the Oracle doesn't even come close in power to the Pyramids. But yes I understand all these things, but the benefit of slightly stronger specialists takes way to long to snowball a game, and the Oracle instantly starts a snowball. But I agree with you 100% any OCC game with out stone should be rerolled.

 

[Fippy]

So getting Catapults at 1900 BC is over rated? Ooook then , but 350 beakers man you must be taking that ammmmazing tech of Monarchy from the Oracle, and completely wasting building it. The Oracle should always provide you with around 2k beakers for free, unless you don't have a clue how to broker. Now how you're going to build the Oracle ever on any difficulty with out chops is beyond me.

I watched some videos from Absolute Zero, maybe you should too.
That's all i will argue about, he stated clearly it's gambling on Deity, and he also often built it with only mines and no chops. There's no need for arguing in this thread, it's all there already. Unless of course you claim your are smarter, which would be another topic.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I watched some videos from Absolute Zero, maybe you should too.
That's all i will argue about, he stated clearly it's gambling on Deity, and he also often built it with only mines and no chops. There's no need for arguing in this thread, it's all there already. Unless of course you claim your are smarter, which would be another topic.

Or maybe you know I just might be as good as he is at this game, and maybe I have watched his videos since he started posting them. Also it is completely shocking that you didn't read this:

But the only difficulty that trying for the Oracle can be a risky play is Deity,

But yes it is quite easy to build the Oracle as HC with a good start with out chopping. Hell with any high commerce start, being Industrious. Of course there is always special scenarios when you don't have to chop. But 99% of the time you are going to chop. But you need to watch more of his videos as Chris very rarely builds the Oracle with out chopping it out.

 

[Fippy]

Then maybe don't make statements like how will i ever get that without chops, or i can get 2k beakers. I cannot get beakers with going for something like Aestetics and trade that around, i understand. You are right, it's a good wonder. Sometimes your best solution for particular maps.
But it's not that huge sack of free gold you make it look like, but i bet you just like the arguing

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I was generalizing.... And 2k beakers on average is me being completely serious, or even on the low end. CoL 591 + Alpha 507 + Math 422 + Monarchy 507 + IW 388 all the low end junk techs is obviously way more than 2k beakers, it is probably closer to 3k, and this all comes off just taking a low end Oracle tech. So yup if you understand how to properly use it, and the free tech it is quite the best wonder in the game.

 

[Strickl3r]

Building the Oracle for Construction is the biggest Gambit of all Gambits.
Viable way to play, but it's a long shot for victory which misses quite often.

Oracling Alphabet wasn't mentioned so far i think. In some rare cases it might make sense.

Getting a reasonable amount of cities save + no Polution to the GPP from Priest nets in a win more often imo.
But of course Gambits are fun.

Oracling Civil Service is boring imo, time to move up the difficulty level instead of doing such nonsense

 

[Abegweit]

Oracling Alphabet can work. Aesthetics may be even better. The thing is that you just get more value out of CoL or MC because the techs themselves are more useful and because they are more expensive.

Oracling MC and then self-researching Aesthetics can give you a lock on the GL while simultaneously allowing to backfill everything else.

 

[Dubioza]

Interesting topic. I'm fairly new to this game, and not so long ago I said Pyramids are the best WW in game. LOL now I say LOL. Oh was I wrong.

For example, in my current game (NC CXVIII on Emperor) I built Oracle in 1400 BC.

Spoiler Oracle :

AI's were teching really slow, so I didn't even fully used it's power in trades, but I did get some.

Spoiler Image :

Spoiler Image :

Only those 3 are over 1.5k beakers. I'd trade more (I did, but techs I didn't get with MC trades don't count - altho they kinda do), but I didn't want to trade MC to everyone and did I say that they teched really slow? I was selling junk techs to them for lousy 10-50 gold toward AD's.

While I built Pyramids in 100 BC, when Oracle's snowball was already avalanche.

Spoiler Pyramids :

So yeah, I take back what I said about Pyramids - they are good in some cases, but mostly Oracle eat'em for breakfast.

 

[Fippy]

Weird to compare these 2..
you have more time for Pyramids, and with stone they would also result in good hammers >>> gold conversation if you fail them. Bit like apples and oranges, and i cannot help thinking they are compared just for Egos. At least for neutral viewers this makes no sense at all.

 

[Keilah]

Well now it's a little silly saying that you can't build Oracle without chops. I've done it many times (immortal) and it's consistently done around t52-56.

 

[Dubioza]

Those 2 were compared throughout this topic. And not only here. So you're saying mid's are good for fail-gold? You can fail-build any wonder. And 'mids cost 500 hammers, which is a lot not just in early game. So you can get 500 gold from it - while Oracle costs 150 hammers and you get best tech available which you can trade around for, really 2k beakers it's not overstatement. How good is 500 gold compared to that? You can have your research slider on 100% for awhile, but is that so good when your research is 50 beakers on 100%?