Orbis - the original thread

[Saytr]

Since your talking about flavour UUs, etc.-

Clan of Embers-
It would be very interesting if Clan of Ember units could build lairs. Lizardmen could build ruins, goblims could build goblin forts, etc. They could build these in neutral land or their own, so even in mid/late game barbarians would be coming out of their land to harass others.

Elohim-
The Elohim are supposed to be peace mongers, but the tolerant trait means that they must war to profit. You could either give them lots of culture UBs to flip cities, or (don't know if this is possible) make civilizations pleased or better towards the Elohim more likely to gift cities to them. Also, they should be able t capture barbarian cities and keep the barbarian UUs (I really want a game where I can build all 4 dragons).

 

[Gilg]

In my current game... a few turns after stasis (turn 88, with advanced start of 1200 on huge) i found a wee barb city, coastal and on tundra and...... it was defended by 5 frostling archers, 4 "ordinary" archers and a couple of warriors.

So much experience for MEEEEEE!!!

 

[Ahwaric]

A Barbarian city is founded over a resource and i raze to leave behind ruins. My workers cannot build the required improvement (mine, plantation etc) over this ruin and i cant pillage it - am i missing something or is this a bug?

You have either sanctify it (most religions get that for free at priest level) or wait till the ruins get haunted - then you can explore them as a lair (but the initial guardian is tough)

Are all units able to be built without the neccessary buildings (swordsmen requiring training yard / horsemen requiring stables etc) is this a feature, bug or hidden option turned on?

Yes. You need buildings for some tier 4 units only, plus some special ones. AI can't understand the prerequisite in my opinion, plus buildings give nice bonuses so you better build them anyway.

Rangers are incredibly powerful with Iron upgrades - again is this "working as intended"?

You are right! Will drop one point of strength in the next patch (so 6+bronze or iron)

Perhaps the long wanted Amurite overhaul could include a uu or ub at monasticism in order to include that line of techs more in their priorities.

How about the following:

• Wizard enclave - replaces monastery, same bonuses but grants a new unit (melee, mounted, archery, disciple & adept) one free spell from the spheres you have mana for

I wanted to add it to university, but that is a national wonder, also it is already good enough. Monasticism is currently a bit dull, so expect more uniques added here in the future

@Saytr
Lizards have own civ so no way to add ruin building to clan. Also, I am afraid to add lair building for cheap and easily buildable units. It will make them too common. But do not say no for the forts, need to think about it.
I currently consider tolerant trait as a minor one - it is mostly for flavor. It is granted for Elohim & Kuriotates, so two civs that are not supposed to conquer a lot of cities. It could be overpowered for other civs.
I do not know of good way to let elohim get more "foreign" cities (culture bonus will be to usefull for cultural victory). Also, you can capture cities, just are not very good at that. Plus, I am considering giving Elohim spiritual trait, but I am not sure if it would not overpower them
I think that retaining barbarian nationality would be broken - there is a reason that you can't build acheron, tumtum etc. Also, barbarians can't build many buildings & units.

 

[Gilg]

How about the following:

• Wizard enclave - replaces monastery, same bonuses but grants a new unit (melee, mounted, archery, disciple & adept) one free spell from the spheres you have mana for

I wanted to add it to university, but that is a national wonder, also it is already good enough. Monasticism is currently a bit dull, so expect more uniques added here in the future


I do not know of good way to let elohim get more "foreign" cities (culture bonus will be to usefull for cultural victory). Also, you can capture cities, just are not very good at that. Plus, I am considering giving Elohim spiritual trait, but I am not sure if it would not overpower them

Perhaps the wizard enclave could refresh spellstaff promo? A free spell sphere is great but the staff promo would tie the civ more tightly together. Siegemages could get the "strong" promo!?

Monasticism could be home of advanced "unique pagan temples" perhaps with a focus on economy as to not overpower some civs.

About the Elohim... I believe that FF has the, by far, best idea of how they should be.

 

[sputnik323]

@Ahwaric - In my patch c game I am getting the red blob for Bridgit. I tried reloading but the blob is still there.

I havent' posted ideas lately because Im waiting to see what is in FF... no reason to add something that the team is already working on. Although I would still like to see some added abilities to Fort/Castle commanders to make them more unique in their abilities. Like the ability to set traps to control movement of armies around the castle ( fort com. sets weak annoying traps, keep com. sets stronger traps, castle com. traps can cause disease or poison). And I still think a moat and drawbridge around cities could add good defense making attacking armies cross a river to take the city and not have that penalty for defending attackers. This would make the water crossing promotion much more important. Other than those ideas, Im hoping FF has some cool new stuff to add into orbi. Patch C is a lot of fun to play, ThankS!

 

[Gilg]

Could wardancers be moved to something earlier? Poisons or bronzeworking?! It's rare that go for rage with the ljos!? Warriors could then trade their city defense for 2 first strikes or something as to indicate elven frailty and "Dancers" in training.

 

[civ_king]

I don't think your going to have micro-intensive golem army, aren't golems built in smaller quantities then regular units?

 

[civ_king]

last sentence in Mechanos description "rafined" -> "refined"
EDIT: i see it happening throughout the game so is it supposed to be rafined? does it have a different meaning then refined?
EDIT2: OMG this is EVERYTHING i wanted and more "drools"
EDIT3: i don't think Globe Troupe and Intricate Weavers should compete, Globe Troupe should do better because they could get better costumes from Intricate Weavers

 

[Ahwaric]

Perhaps the wizard enclave could refresh spellstaff promo?

Monasticism could be home of advanced "unique pagan temples" perhaps with a focus on economy as to not overpower some civs.

About the Elohim... I believe that FF has the, by far, best idea of how they should be.

Great ideas. I currently have no idea how to implement spellstaff refreshment though.
I like FF version of Elohim, but can't play with it as I do not have 0.33 any more. Will have to wait for 0.34 compatibile version.

@Ahwaric - In my patch c game I am getting the red blob for Bridgit. I tried reloading but the blob is still there.

I would still like to see some added abilities to Fort/Castle commanders to make them more unique in their abilities. Like the ability to set traps to control movement of armies around the castle. And I still think a moat and drawbridge around cities could add good defense making attacking armies cross a river to take the city and not have that penalty for defending attackers.

Brigid looks fine for me. Are you sure you reinstalled Orbi on top of FfH 0.34 patch H?
I do not think traps fit castle commanders - recon line would be better I think. Also, ommanders are immobile.
I like the moat idea, but I am afraid it is beyond my coding skills.

Could wardancers be moved to something earlier? Poisons or bronzeworking?! It's rare that go for rage with the ljos!? Warriors could then trade their city defense for 2 first strikes or something as to indicate elven frailty and "Dancers" in training.

War dancers are the reason to go for rage now. I think they are elite troops and as such deserve tier 4 position. Warrior with wardancers training? - remeber that they are stone age units.

last sentence in Mechanos description "rafined" -> "refined"
EDIT3: i don't think Globe Troupe and Intricate Weavers should compete, Globe Troupe should do better because they could get better costumes from Intricate Weavers

Spelling fixed.
I think of removing any guild competition, but adding mechanics to remove them (banker in your city, steward in foreign?). There were plenty of guilds in every city and did not really compete as they produced different things.

 

[xienwolf]

Refreshing spellstaff would be pretty easy. Just look at how the Altar of Luo. applies Blessed on unit movement and do the same with spellstaff. Then every visiting caster will gain the promotion.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Spellstaff refreshment is quite simple, just make the building have <FreePromotion>PROMOTION_SPELLSTAFF</FreePromotion> and <bApplyFreePromotionOnMove>1</bApplyFreePromotionOnMove>, and add

<UnitCombats>
                <UnitCombat>
                    <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ADEPT</UnitCombatType>
                    <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
                </UnitCombat>                
            </UnitCombats>

to the promotion_spellstaff xml define.

 

[Ahwaric]

Refreshing spellstaff would be pretty easy. Just look at how the Altar of Luo. applies Blessed on unit movement and do the same with spellstaff. Then every visiting caster will gain the promotion.

That is why I do not want to use this mechanics - it applies the promo to every unit in the city that has the right unitcombat. I do not want to allow it for adepts and mages, especially of another team.
So, I did it in python. Spellstaff will refresh/apply to every wizard/archmage that ends turn in the city. Wizards are amurite only, and archmages should be welcomed even if belonging to another civ
While at that I fixed the duskwood weapons - they will apply to every archery unit provided that the following is true:

• unit ends turn in the city
• city has archery range
• city has acces to duskwood
• city and unit have the same owner (so no duskwood weapons for foreign visitors)

 

[Gilg]

I agree that wardancers aren't amateurs... They require training and lots of it.
As such it would fit a line of soldiers neatly. Warriors could get first strikes, swordsmen could keep the first strikes and add some withdrawal and then a light promo for heavy infantry.

Something like that.... I personally like the elven theme a lot and I just don't get that many opportunities to use WD's when I have to wait for rage.

 

[civ_king]

Ahwaric, i noticed the spelling is pretty much there the whole game

 

[Willgar]

3 game in a row that i have lost as the mechanos. No problem, but it had been the same way each time - every faction has adopted FoL and a rival has won by religious victory. Not sure if this is a Orbimod thing, just a standard FfH / FF or just bad luck but i dont think i have ever had this happen before...

 

[Gilg]

Btw. Iron working is way to heavy in this mod... + 75% hammers + 25% hammers in each city + 1 combat strength to most of our units. + 4 exp. and 25 build speed to ships... It's too massive and you need to beeline it or die.

I think the wonder + national wonder should require a second tech or some such.n

 

[arbor]

Hi guys,

great wor another time; and it seems good balanced!
I recently good problems with the troll ruins - they cant be removed? Or how? Because I didnt find a way yet and so you cannot build improvements.

I think, if an attacked mounted unit retreats the attacker should get at least 1XP, as it is for defending. Last time, I fought against Tasunke, all horse archer 85% chance to retreat. You never kill one, even fireballs and assassins do not help (maybe an exception for them, would sound logically) and neither you get XPs. The AI does not profit too much and raid your lands and use its ranged attack. I just tried and got really plenty horse archers (as they hardly die), and with ranged attack you even can capture some cities. Cheap war.
Ranged attack might need some more promotions - fighting back or that you cannot attack through city walls (siege weapons of course, but archers?) or the AI has to be tuned or something. Same for some magics. Its just, sometimes you fight the AI almost without looses.

Hehe, and I think the infernals are the only race for a monarch domination victory. Could give them some Sheim cities last time as they started close. So, with caste system and hammers guild ... and 1000 engineers , I really enjoyed. But it was quite hard.


So far, keep going

 

[Ahwaric]

every faction has adopted FoL and a rival has won by religious victory. Not sure if this is a Orbimod thing, just a standard FfH / FF or just bad luck but i dont think i have ever had this happen before...

That is partially even vanilla problem. Religion gives good diplomatic modifiers and civs tend to stick to early religions. How often do you see an islamic country in vanilla/BtS?
I tried to make civs have strong preferences to particular religions, but neutral ones are still quite acceptable for many civs, so you can see FoL plus RoK a lot, as both are early and quite neutral ones.

Btw. Iron working is way to heavy in this mod...

I agree. Check the changelog for the next patch (d)

I recently good problems with the troll ruins - they cant be removed? Or how? Because I didnt find a way yet and so you cannot build improvements.

You are right. I had to change some terrain features/improvements in last version as the map generation somehow got a bit broken in FfH 0.34 I think, especially the require feature part. Anyway, during changes to adjust this requirement was removed and ruins do not get removed when the swamp is drained. This is the way it should work and it is already fixed in patch d.

I think, if an attacked mounted unit retreats the attacker should get at least 1XP, as it is for defending. Last time, I fought against Tasunke, all horse archer 85% chance to retreat.
Ranged attack might need some more promotions - fighting back or that you cannot attack through city walls (siege weapons of course, but archers?) or the AI has to be tuned or something. Same for some magics. Its just, sometimes you fight the AI almost without looses.

I think of halving withdrawal rate (the base amount) on defense. That should help in killing monted units if you can get to them.
I agree that even if the enemy withdraws you should get some xp. Unfortunatelly, I think it requires sdk changes and I am not at that point yet. Some with ranged attack - I want to add promotions that increase ranged attack, but it requires custom dll. AI is handled in it, too.
I have no problem with archers shooting over city walls - it is possible, the arrow trajectory is an arc, not the straight line.

Ahwaric, i noticed the spelling is pretty much there the whole game

Such info does not help me in any way, sorry.
Please, give me precise info what and where is wrong, best if provided with proposed change. As I posted a few days ago, I already fixed all instances of rafined to refined (it will be out with patch d), but do not know what else have you found.
I am not a native english speaker and my english could be better, I am aware of it. Sorry for the inconvinience, but I do my best.

 

[Gilg]

It sounds like that patch is about ready for me to try it out!!

 

[civ_king]

if you give me the patch, i could do more spell check