Orbis - the original thread

[Ahwaric]

Patch C is here.

@Gilg
Flagellants ended as a berserker replacement, but they require fanaticism instead of Rage. Just fit berserker theme too good.

@[to_xp]Gekko
Vampires worshiping empyrean? Unlikely, and calabim do not stop producing Vampires just because they converted. But I decided not to limit roleplay/powerplay in any way, so only Basium, Hyborem & agnostics have hard restrictions .

@Isotope
I do not think Mechanos are weak. In later game they are hard to stop, and they can focus on production branches which bring their best units. I would prefer not to be tasked at defence of a castle /city they decide to take... or be at hydra's range. Properly promoted and with machine spirit awakened, hydra has range 4!.
Also, Khazad can't get summons until late game and that does not make them weak.

I found a bug with Goliath but have no idea what is causing the refineries problem. I have not seen them in wrong hands for quite a while and hoped it was solved.
Making steam power a starting technology will not help - it has nothing to do with the ability do research it.

@Methuselah
I guess these lines:

Spoiler :

[Components]
Name: "Orbis"; Description: "Orbis Core Files"; Types: full; Flags: fixed
Name: "FFH"; Description: "Copy Fall from Heaven Files"; Types: full; Flags: fixed

and

[Files]

Source: "{reg:HKLM\SOFTWARE\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 - Beyond the Sword,INSTALLDIR}\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\*"; DestDir: "{app}"; Flags: external recursesubdirs createallsubdirs comparetimestamp; Components: FFH
Source: "E:\Workshop\Patch\*"; DestDir: "{app}"; Flags: ignoreversion recursesubdirs createallsubdirs; Components: Orbis
; NOTE: Don't use "Flags: ignoreversion" on any shared system files

If it does not help, I can pm you a whole script

 

[Methuselah]

Yeah I solved it, I had the flags wrong. Thanks anyway.

 

[Deon]

Thank you for the new patch!

Animals no longer can explore animal dens
Fixed mixed tiger & gorilla den creation text.
Added an option to buy bears in the hunter event

Woah, I'm glad to see these errors fixed!

 

[Gigify]

Awesome mod I love what you have done to the archer units there perfect for softening up strong stacks for my melee infantry and they now feel needed same with the siege weapons.

I have to say I like the Mechanos concept but I found that allot of there units are identical to vanilla civ units though you did say that there unfinished.

Wanted to suggest to you the Necron Lord model for the Immortal since the machine theme seems to go with them as for the phalanx/spartoi have you considered trying the Necron warrior. As for the current Flamethrower unit you make him a Heavy Infantry or pikeman Unique unit

Finally I love the new Ork warrior model it made me chuckle when I first got attacked by them I also like that you made the old spear warrior the phalanx since its much better than the old default phalanx model which every one else uses

 

[Ahwaric]

With the last patch I finally added all unique units I had planned for Mechanos (but maybe I will add more in time) and got rid of all shared/not matching models for unique units.
Unfortunatelly, no other unit has unique looks. There are not many avaliable models that fit the theme (renaissance/steam punk), and I can't do completly new models - just move parts, paint them etc. So, I can't make Necron lords, but I thought of such unit (or cyborg) as an immortal model.
In fact, I would prefer Basilisk model than that of Hydra for Mechanos cannon, but Hydra was avaliable and I do not know how to convert units from Dawn of War (even though it is possible and there are plenty of units that I could use).

So, if you know of any model that you think would fit Mechanos and is already avaliable for civ IV, please let me know. I searched database wide and long, but there is always something I could have missed, and some models are avaliable only in mods and you have to play them to check...
If anyone can make units, be my guest It does not have to be seZereth's quality, mine are not And it took me 3 days to finish them...

For now, I plan to expand mechanos buildings a bit (I like thew power concept, but need to adjust it to FfH world), plus add some spells (techpriests can use some more)

 

[Deon]

The main issue about mechanos for now is that they don't have a special strategy. Well, there're warrens for clan, totems and beast taming for doviello, vampires for calabim etc., and Mechanos seem a bit bland (they have power units but no " extremely unique features"). There should eventually appear some special mechanism (however refined mana is cool too) which will make them unique and then they'll flourish .

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

using vanilla civ's "power" mechanic for the Mechanos would be awesome imho. power should come from refineries, and improve with the more refineries you get. that way they would have a real incentive to go out and get rid of all those stupid mana nodes everyone seems so excited about

 

[Deon]

Ugh, is it supposed that Illians can build ritual "white hand" a lot of times and get new priests? I've completed it in 4 cities (independent, not like a project) and got 12 priests of winter o_O. 12 ice elementals/turn = kill all living...

 

[GeoMancer]

Not sure if this goes here or not, but since this last patching, I've been having some problems with a set of events. The 'Werewolf' at the gate event isn't coming up correctly: Missing event text (choices still appear) and no consequences (Costs this or that for this other effect).

Another thing, though it might just be my system, the game has tended to have a lot of Memory exceptions that cause it to crash, and it seems to be linked to certain model sets or actors.

 

[coreybowman]

here is a later game crash to desltop. the crash is three moves away. it doesnt seem to matter what i do it still crashes.this is patch b

 

[Deon]

I had a nice problem. My griffon with a stone which gives 20% chance to capture has captured Alazkan Assassin . It's cool that it's possible to capture defeated heroes, but then a strange thing happened when I took his mirror. I was near Svaltarfar's city (at war) and casted black mirror on griffon. His copy appeared as a red blob ONE SCREEN AWAY from him on enemy territory. Moreover, it appeared on a tile with enemy worker and captured him .

 

[Deon]

Ahwaric, don't you mind if I try to contribute? As I said I've wanted more features for Mechanos. Well, I want them to have "Corporation Zombotech" at Alchemy which requires Great Sage and Refined Mana.

The idea is that Mechanos, being dedicated scientists and a technology-worshipping civilization developed a way to affect living things to turn them undead alive. We have magic golems and "scientific" golems (clockwork), we have magic undead, why not to have "scientific" undead?

With Alchemy and access to refined mana (which means that not only Mechanos can do it, but only if another civ asks mechanos to sell some refined mana) you can find "Nemesis strain" (or any other name) corporation which should have auto-spread factor like religion if possible.
This corporation HQ "Corporation Zombotech" should grant a number of units of unique resource "Strain antivirus" which has an unique use. By itself "Nemesis Strain" should grant quite bad effects on population (is it possible to make a corporation to reduce health and grant unhappiness?), but the appearance of 1 unit of "Strain antivirus" should negate negative effect and grant some positive effect. By itself this strain should make people stronger and smarter so with antivirus population should have bonus to beakers and health. You should gen some number of units of resource (like 3 or 4) to be able to sell antivirus to friendly neighbours.
Also appearance of Nemesis Strain in a city should grant (Mechanos only) a possibility to build a "genetic factory" which will allow them to build "infected" unit (likely something like "diseased corpses").

Well, there're more ideas behind this so if you like concept I've already started to playtest it with mechanos so I may put it together and show you to fix some possible balance issues and to decide to include it or not.

So, what do you think?

Don't neglect me please, I want to work on it very much! I've already found a couple of useful models and if nothing satisfies you I can make buildings by myself (not that great, but still... Bazaar of Mammon and Sheaim Palace in FFH2 are mine).

 

[Ahwaric]

@ Deon
The ritual is 400 hammers, and i.e. priests of leaves costs 120 hammers, so three are just 360.
Every priest can summon a permanent tiger - combat 4

Priests of winter can summon combat 2 +2 ice ice elementals which also have +1 ice affinity. How much ice mana can you get? 2 if you are really lucky.

I do not think it is so overpowered and yes, it is intended

As for the black mirror problem, no idea. I did not touch anything related to it I think.

@GeoMancer
I did not include some changes to Werewolf and Iron Orb events, I will deliver them with the next patch.
I did not get any exceptions in my last game (well, two, one fixed the other working on but both quite rare - exploration result and healing potion usage) or any games before. So if you get python exeption (or any other bug), please post a screenshot or some specific info.

@coreybowman
After I realized that it is 0.20b save, I got it to work That is a big map...
I played till 395 and no crash for me.

 

[GeoMancer]

Ah, well, I've also ran into a few other issues with text not appearing correctly. The Tracking? Tech did not have it's 'You learned this' information/quote what have you. It seems more like there's an issue in textual linking. Like for both werewolf events it's spelled 'werwolf' in the string that pops up.

 

[Deon]

@ Deon
The ritual is 400 hammers, and i.e. priests of leaves costs 120 hammers, so three are just 360.
Every priest can summon a permanent tiger - combat 4

Priests of winter can summon combat 2 +2 ice ice elementals which also have +1 ice affinity. How much ice mana can you get? 2 if you are really lucky.

I do not think it is so overpowered and yes, it is intended

As for the black mirror problem, no idea. I did not touch anything related to it I think.

@GeoMancer
I did not include some changes to Werewolf and Iron Orb events, I will deliver them with the next patch.
I did not get any exceptions in my last game (well, two, one fixed the other working on but both quite rare - exploration result and healing potion usage) or any games before. So if you get python exeption (or any other bug), please post a screenshot or some specific info.

@coreybowman
After I realized that it is 0.20b save, I got it to work That is a big map...
I played till 395 and no crash for me.

Any corporation feedback?

Also are the priests with permanent tiger avaliable that early too? Because it seems to be a complete winner strategy. Priests are str. 7, elementals are str 5 because you get 1 mana from palace and you shouldn't convert to any religion to instantly get a horde of str 7 priests with 5 str summons and Heal (they get it at right civics/stationed warlord from the start). For example, in comparison to mages which are much weaker and require mana nodes and level longer these priests win 1 to 2.
If you decide to leave it as it is can you rename the priests to generic names? It's a bit strange to have a lot of units with the same First Names.

 

[Ahwaric]

I have seen you post after posting mine and needed some time to think it over.
I like the idea of "scientific undead". Like Frankenstein... Or even reviving machines...

But I do not really like the actual implementation for several reasons:

• zombotech does not really fit the flavor. for mechanos it is: cogs, steam power, gunpowder, even electricty and magnetism. Da vinci and science up to early XIX century.
  "So what are these viruses you are talking about? There are some means by which diseases transmit, of that we are sure. We do not beleive all this "punishment for sins" or "dark curse" things, but you concept is funny... And you want us to work on small invisible things? Do you want us to BELIEVE they exist? "
  It is just too high science. Fallout, not Arcanum. Cyber-punk, not steam-punk.
• I do not want another corporation. Period. I even think of removing one or two. Namely Stewards (they do not really do anything - better just add some good events) and transmuters (overlap with Circle of Eigth as a science guild, but will probably stay as non-magic society)
• It is too much dependant on one civ - without mechanos the guild is useless. On the other hand is not entirely Mechanos specific

Sorry to disapoint you. I like the idea, but it just does not fit my story. If you want to work on the concept of science zombies, but more in line of Frankenstein, be my guest and expect inclusion to Orbis. Otherwise, modmodmod it if you want...
To answer your question, it is not possible to add health/happines penalty for corporation. You have to change dll and enable such option for xml, or use building that is automatically spawned on corp spread (That is how Stewards work).

Regarding priests of winter, I want them to be replaceable, so one-time ritual is not good if you ask me (or plenty other people). You can get them just one tech before other priests, and what you say is true for most priests.
But they are strong, you are right. I may move the ritual to priesthood, up the price or both. If anyone has other suggestion, let me know. Also, as deepening now requires priesthood, it may be good to move it elsewhere (religious law, fanaticism or elementalism come in mind).
I will look into the names problem and will either add more names or set them to default.

I can make buildings by myself (not that great, but still... Bazaar of Mammon and Sheaim Palace in FFH2 are mine).

You are too humble. I know that these buildings are your work and they ARE great. I think of possible uses for slavic gods shrines... I really like them

@GeoMancer
Thants for the tip on tracking, I forgot to include tech description when it got removed from FfH.

 

[Deon]

Ah that's nicely said, I've just done xml for spawning of "infected house" building and wanted to work in it. Oh well, frankensteins are nice too . I see what do you mean with steampunk =/= cyberpunk, so you're right. I was playing too many zombie games during the last period . Anyway I'll play with modmod for a while. Maybe I'll make an expansion for some "future war" vanilla civ mod later .

By the way, I've just saw that there's no space for more corporation icons in the city view, and my new icon is visible in worldbuilder only, it doesn't fit on the city panel .

 

[Isotope]

Hello.
Something that keeps bothering me is that I can't see the combat strength of Blimps when looking at the odds with the "Alt"
Is there a way to fix it?

 

[far_wanderer]

I just discovered this mod yesterday and already I love it. Thank you for the wonderful work.
I've played two games so far, both as the Mechanos, and I wanted to offer some feedback
Mechanos:
>They have a lot of techs, especially later ones, that don't do anything for them but can still be researched. Rage in particular.
>The combination of Steamworks, Ironworks, and Smelter is ridiculously good, I build all three in my capitol each game and even with only about 16 citizens I could build things like Genesis in one turn.
>I noticed earlier in the forum you were thinking about more spells for the Techpriest - I would highly recommend Vitalize. It's something they could easily accomplish with fertilizer and other technology, and their current lack of any terrain modification spells gets irritating late-game.
>I love Blimps and Zeppelins, both as units and just for flavor. In my first game I was exploring through the tech tree and saw "Trade: can build Blimp" and immediately selected it for research.
>The Mechanos currently have no use for the mana that comes from unique features or their palace. The unique features sort of makes sense because I can see them not wanting to distrurb a historical site for a refinery. For the palace though, I would suggest a refined mana instead of the two they have now. The happiness boost from Enchantment was nice, but it seemed a bit strange to be wandering around the continent refining every node I saw and still having raw mana coming from my palace.

General game:
>Imperial roads are nice, they make large empires a lot easier to maintain. I really feel from a flavor standpoint that they should give a trade bonus, but that would probably be hard to balance.
>Having improvements with a chance to discover resources has forced me to adopt a whole new level of planning for my workers, and I really like it.
>Because Giant Spiders are invisible, non-recon units can walk up to their nests and explore them without having to contend with defenders. Other than that I really like the lairs. You might want to have them start with a held defender, though, my second game I took out a griffon nest on turn three before any defenders had spawned (got the free griffon result too).
>I really like the idea of Clippers (haven't experienced them yet due to being Mechanos, though). The game really needed a fast ship.
>Is it intended that treasure chests can be opened multiple times? I found two my second game and both gave multiple items.
>Having the 'more resources' option on is a nice touch, although it really freaked me out the first game when I wasn't expecting it.
>Do the Gates of the Underdark spawn monsters occasionally? I had two Minotaurs pop up unexpectedly in the heart of my territory once and that was the only possible source I could think of.

 

[Deon]

Having the 'more resources' option

Do you mean Blessing of Amatheon? It's from original FFH2.