Orbis - the original thread

[Caradoc]

I totally agree with you about Events. Pity is that it seems like the duds are the most common ones. I'd like to see more of the kind where a unit gains a promotion or the player is given a quest. And maybe Marnok has some additional dungeon/lair events you could incorporate. If you think you might be doing it, I'll try to think of some new ones for you. And at the same time, I bet I could think of a bunch of new objects you could use for treasures.

One of my peeves regarding dungeons/lairs is when I get a bad result supposedly due to some action I took. If I'm good, why would I pick up an evil red sword? And if I'm evil, why would it curse me? I think each outcome should offer a choice -- to accept a challenge or take a risk that could have good or bad results, to retreat and maybe take a penalty (lose HP or even an EP), or even an opportunity to use some skill or item. Also, a while back there was some discussion of allowing the adventurer to return to the "deeper level" for more potent outcomes. I'd even go for a three tier system with mundane events at the top, better rewards and bosses below that, and some really rich rewards at the bottom.

As for civs, rather than new ones, I'd prefer more unique buildings and units for the ones we have. Not just reskins or racial variants, but ones with tactical or strategic value.

 

[StormbringerGT]

I don't mind the "dull" events. They make special events more special. If all events were awesome rewarding events then they wouldn't be special they would be the norm. I do think there needs to be more events, normal and special.

 

[arkham4269]

I am worried by the "Speaking of which, I've only played Mechanos to a point where the game keeps crashing". Please, give me some specs or post a save. I will try to fix what I can.

Here is the last save point from my first game. If I remember right it just conked out with a standard Microsoft error message.

Again I'm running Win-XP on a HP laptop w/full keyboard.

 

[Gilg]

While on the subject of giving flavour to the existing civs, I think that Decius might tolerate an update.
I know not his lore so I'm just making stuff up to fit my take on his place in the game.... His line on death about how he has risen from nothingness to king and will do so again gives me a couple of ideas.

His "raiders" trait could be expanded so that when his units pillage an improvement they get a "spoils of war" promotion. When the unit then returns
to friendly lands the SoW could split from the unit like a great commander and cashed in for a flat bonus to , or . Multiple uses of pillage could give an "empower" promo to the SoW and increase the bonus by a percentage.
That would sort make him a king of thieves, but also portray a befitting greed and initiative.

It could be made so that when a human player choses ***** Decius, then Alexis, Capria or Varn would spawn and have a heavy negative diplo bonus saying "USURPER!!!!" The size of the bonus would be.... perhaps -6 and in place from the start. Over 100 games with a human decius there would be a lot of "civil wars", but perhaps, once in a while peace could be won and Decius would have broken away successfully and forged his own little nation or whatever.
A Negative version of the "Minister Koun" event, but not an accidental one.
Perhaps it would be an option one could chose and not a forced addition to Deciuses Flavour.

Ahwaric - I have a lot of ideas and would like to help my favorite modmod, Which civ would you like to deepen the flavour of?

+ I have just reloaded and fund the water block bug (Large portion or all of the ocean is permanently tradeblocked.) alive and well, this time with initial save 'n' all, interested or is it a ffh thing.

 

[arkham4269]

Talking of events, anyone got Cult of the Dragon founded (human or AI?)? Or Gaelan?

I thought the CotD was disabled for awhile. I certainly haven't seen it in ages.

 

[Seon]

Bringing back the subject of great generals unique building, what about a military academy type of building that allows a unit to cast a spell, for a small fee and making the unit immobile for a few turns, gives unique promotions? (such as anti melee, anti horseman, magic resistance etc)

(Sorry about lack of quotes and boldfaces in my replies, I am still getting used to the interface)

 

[Smakemupagus]

I am curious why towns act like cities -- it was odd to me because they allow boats to travel and they harvest resources?

Other than that little nitpick, having a blast with the mod-mod, thanks!!

 

[Smakemupagus]

<...> but I'd like somebody challenge the lanun on the seas.

The Orbis Amurite frigate (+air,water affinity; casts fair winds & maelstrom) is pretty good in that regard!

 

[Seon]

umm.... By the way, are vampires supposed to learn other spell spheres as well as death and body? I was able to destroy a few enemy SoDs by using a Vampire with rust and then overwhelming them with an army of spectars, pit beasts, and the host of enijar or something. Discovering this was very a pleasant surprise, but was it intended?

 

[Gilg]

The Orbis Amurite frigate (+air,water affinity; casts fair winds & maelstrom) is pretty good in that regard!

you're right!! But 9 times out of 10 the amurites has plenty to do on land.... The amurites have no extraordinary need to seek out the sea.

.... Perhaps tradeships could be the answer.

 

[StormbringerGT]

you're right!! But 9 times out of 10 the amurites has plenty to do on land.... The amurites have no extraordinary need to seek out the sea.

.... Perhaps tradeships could be the answer.

I love trade and commerce!

 

[Ahwaric]

Sure, happens in almost every game I played so far. Are they supposed to be rare?

Quite the opposite, I want it to work. So, I want it founded every time that requirements are fulfilled (right civs in & mysticism), plus I want it to be an annoyance. I hope it works, but had not the time to test it. Glad to hear ia confirmation. Anyone did not seen it founded even at the right circumstances?

As for the mechanos.... I don't you've chosen the easiest civ to build... magic is needed in ffh and wheels 'n' cogs haven't got a cousin closer than the fine golem wielding dwarves.

That is exactly a reason I have choosen to add them - they are unique (I hope that they are even in my handicaped implementation) and might be fun to play.
I thought of a High Middle Ages civ (Knights etc., something in between Bretonnia and The Empire from Warhammer), but decided that it would be hard to make them distinct. So maybe later.

Regarding the events, I do not want only good ones as in positive to the player. I mean, fun, even if it hurts. But do not worry, events are low prority so I will not start massive extermination of the ones I do not like...

@Seon
Military academy is one of the great general only buildings I want to add. For now two are in: Wild Haven and Castra Legionis. So far no idea what training should military academy provide. I do not want it to provide promotions that can be purchased by experience, but something new (even if it just gives some more +vs melee/mounted etc bonuses)

I am curious why towns act like cities -- it was odd to me because they allow boats to travel and they harvest resources?

And why not? Towns are small cities, so to make them more city-like I have enabled them working as ports (can't build a new ship, but can let it repair/take shelter). Units that are trained to fight in a city can certainly use it to fight in a town. Also, why not let the people there harvest resources? From the flavor perspective it all seems ok to me. Same applies to a fortress - castles & keeps seem fine. Forts have this ability even in unmodded BtS.

 

[Caradoc]

Can I talk you into leaving prospecting in the game? I think it's a lot of fun and don't see what problems it causes. In fact, I'd like to have more units that are capable of discovering resources.

 

[arkham4269]

I really like the Mechanos. Once they get a inquisitor, I'm sure things will be even better.

Some comments before I start another game as my last one looks like I'll not be able to finish it due to the graphics conking out. (Turn 402 with Basium, the Lizards, Grigori, and my vassals the Elohim and CPT Ostandres - I think there are just to many units for the computer to fiddle around with and thus it can't think and do graphics at the same time)

First off, the Hydro-canon seems way to powerful, even if it is that way due to the lack of sorcery. Even if you added canons back in and limited hydro-cannons to only 4 buildable, they are still just evil. I've taken out cities with just 4 where they don't even attack other than with their range attack and they weaken a city so badly that I just waltz in. Great idea, but a bit too powerful.

Secondly, as I sort of mentioned before, is there a way so that instead of getting Great Prophets, they get Great Philosophers? That way they could build a 'holy' city for Humanism as well as maybe becoming a Great Citizen that might add science & happiness instead of priests. Plus, do Adeptus units gain from the Altar of Lutunar which is about the only thing I can see being useful for Great Prophets other than adding them to your city.

 

[Ahwaric]

@Caradoc
There are two reasons for the removal:

• balance - with patience you can get resources everywhere
• micromanaging

I have warned of the plan a long time ago and as there were no protests, I finally did it.
That said, I will miss it. So, I can easily be persuaded either way. Maybe start a poll?

So, do you guys want/think it should be removed? If it will stay, should I keep breeding as well?

@arkham4269
Good to hear that Mechanos can be liked
Any suggestion what should I cut from the Hydras to make them balanced?
I checked your save and it worked fine - no crash. But I also noticed that you did not have a single refined node. All Mechanos siege weapons get affinity for it, so it would make them even stronger... Plus the machine spirit bonus...
I like the idea of the Holy City for Humanism. But not sure if it would require a new great person - maybe just allow great priests to build it, but limit it to Mechanos/Grigori civilizations?
Adeptus gain bonus from altar, as all other disciple units (including druids). Also, altar lvl 3 is the only way for the Mech to get blessed (unless you get confessor some wicked way).

 

[arkham4269]

There are two reasons for the removal:
* balance - with patience you can get resources everywhere
* micromanaging

I warned of the plan a long time ago and as there were no protests, I finally did it.
That said, I will miss it. So, I can easily be persuaded either way. Maybe start a poll?

What is getting removed?

Any suggestion what should I cut from the Hydras to make them balanced?

I think just adding canons back in and then making the Hydrocannon limited to only 4. Plus, if you want to be a bit more historical, instead of the Hydrocannon, you give them the Hwacha. I saw the Mythbusters fire one they made and the thought of a bunch of those firing as a artillery battery was pretty impressive. Of course they would be more of an anti-personal weapon, but we can say, "hey this is FfH - they have better rockets!"

Plus, not sure if it's worth the work, but perhaps instead of Arcane Barge (which I think is a dumb name considering it isn't a barge) perhaps the Mechanos could get the same ship earlier and have Greek Fire? If you have to still use the fireball to represent the flame, maybe only have it able to attack the next hex instead of the fireballs 2 hex range. I would think you might need some resource but I can't really think of any. (Whale oil?)

I checked your save and it worked fine - no crash. But I also noticed that you did not have a single refined node.

That's because I didn't figure out till Game 2 that Adeptus can make Refined mana. Plus, like I said, I'm sure it's just because I have an old machine running an old graphics card. If I could, I'd dearly love to wipe my machine and reload everything. I've noticed that Burning Sands and my graphics do NOT get along. It's the one thing I wish you could graphically turn off.

I like the idea of the Holy City for Humanism. But not sure if it would require a new great person - maybe just allow great priests to build it, but limit it to Mechanos/Grigori civilizations?

Sounds good to me. I'm sure it would be more 'correct' to say their Great Philosophers but for the amount of work, easier to just use the Prophets to get the same affect. I must say, however, that I feel Humanism comes really late. I mean everyone else gets religion way early. Perhaps moving printing press (which initially was an offshoot of a wine press) to an earlier tech offshoot?

BTW, I like your expanded mercenaries. Fun later in the game when I have buckets of money. Why build mages when you can hire them!

Oh one bug I've found; I've noticed that if two zeppelins intersect, one will often become loaded on to the other one. It's rather annoying.

 

[Seon]

I have just read the changelog and it's awesome. my idea for actually buying the promotions were because of the problem that your starting unit, who had survived many barbarian outbreaks will never have the chance to gain a unique promotion just because it was built at a time where there was no military academy

I just noticed that you will be deleting prospecting and I must say that I will rather miss it, it was a really unique way of solving no mithril/iron problem in my empire. If you decide to delete it, could you post the code for prospecting? It just seems too much of a waste for a great idea

 

[Ahwaric]

What is getting removed?
I think just adding canons back in and then making the Hydrocannon limited to only 4. Plus, if you want to be a bit more historical, instead of the Hydrocannon, you give them the Hwacha.

I just noticed that you will be deleting prospecting and I must say that I will rather miss it, it was a really unique way of solving no mithril/iron problem in my empire. If you decide to delete it, could you post the code for prospecting? It just seems too much of a waste for a great idea

I consider to delete (I already did it, but still consider if I should do it and adding it back is easy) to remove prospecting - Prospector's unique spell that lets him find new resources (or, which is more probable, some monsters). Miller, Three-field order executive, has simillar spell that lets him look for new crops.
Reasons for the removal are stated above.
Nothing is set in stone though. For now, two votes to keep it and some old ones to remove. There is still time to vote, as I will not have the time to finish the patch (or rather 0.21 version considering the amount of changes, including art) before friday.
I like the idea of a greek fire ship. And by the way, any suggestions to rename Arcane Barge?
I do not want to limit Hydra cannons - I want Mech to use steam powered powerful cannons. And normal cannons (especially dwarven ones) are quite powerfull, too. Maybe I should just lower Hydra's movement to 1?

I have just read the changelog and it's awesome. my idea for actually buying the promotions were because of the problem that your starting unit, who had survived many barbarian outbreaks will never have the chance to gain a unique promotion just because it was built at a time where there was no military academy

My thoughts exactly. So, no promotions will be lost - Wild haven applies promotions that you can get by capturing an animal and then adopting it (or den exploration), Castra legionis allows legionary training and I still keep looking for promotions to be get from Military Academy.

 

[Alzara]

I consider to delete (I already did it, but still consider if I should do it and adding it back is easy) to remove prospecting - Prospector's unique spell that lets him find new resources (or, which is more probable, some monsters). Miller, Three-field order executive, has simillar spell that lets him look for new crops.
Reasons for the removal are stated above.
Nothing is set in stone though. For now, two votes to keep it and some old ones to remove. There is still time to vote, as I will not have the time to finish the patch (or rather 0.21 version considering the amount of changes, including art) before friday.
I like the idea of a greek fire ship. And by the way, any suggestions to rename Arcane Barge?
I do not want to limit Hydra cannons - I want Mech to use steam powered powerful cannons. And normal cannons (especially dwarven ones) are quite powerfull, too. Maybe I should just lower Hydra's movement to 1?

My thoughts exactly. So, no promotions will be lost - Wild haven applies promotions that you can get by capturing an animal and then adopting it (or den exploration), Castra legionis allows legionary training and I still keep looking for promotions to be get from Military Academy.

I vote to remove the prospecting and surveying. They are too powerful (i.e. resources everywhere).
I do think they should be replaced with something else more balancing eventually. Just so that the prospector can do something other than spread the prospectors guild etc.

 

[arkham4269]

My thoughts: Maybe I didn't prospect enough, but I found that I either got no resources or I spawn some bad creatures way more than I ever got a single resource. I've had better luck with Yurts spawning resources than with prospecting.

As for the hydrocannon, the reason I was thinking you should limit it to 4 is because they are insanely powerful...just like Archmages which the Mechanos don't have.

I still think having them as Hwachas might be nice if only to have a more medieval model to use instead of that obviously sci-fi tank.

Plus, might there be an event or tech that would allow the Mechanos to build 1 to a few Clockwork Golems? I mean if they can build Goliath, a they can build a Clockwork Golem. Or is Goliath so big because they have people in it and so it's too expensive to build more?

Plus, Kael seems to be making some big changes in FfH in patch R: will that affect Orbis?